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.Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 9:05:42 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Prostitute users face clampdown.

Paying to have sex with a prostitute who is 'controlled' by a pimp, madam or other external authority will now be a criminal offense.  I am very mixed on this.  I just feel it is going to push those who are most at risk more underground.
 
the.dark.

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 9:10:29 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		How about, they legalize it, regulate it, and tax it!

Oh yeah, that would make too much sense. (insert eye roll here)


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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 9:21:56 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
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From: another planet
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Prostitute users face clampdown.

Paying to have sex with a prostitute who is 'controlled' by a pimp, madam or other external authority will now be a criminal offense.  I am very mixed on this.  I just feel it is going to push those who are most at risk more underground.
 
the.dark.

 
I agree completely.
They should legalise it ad regulate it as the delish La T says.

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 9:26:29 AM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

How about, they legalize it, regulate it, and tax it!

Oh yeah, that would make too much sense. (insert eye roll here)



Works in a lot of European countries very well, STDs don't get spread like wildfire, since the women are not doing anything illegal they don't need the "protection" of pimps, a lot of the crime surrounding it simply disappeared, less police force needed and they can do something more useful, like writing parking tickets...

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 9:34:34 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

How about, they legalize it, regulate it, and tax it!

Oh yeah, that would make too much sense. (insert eye roll here)



Such a "liberal," "ungodly" idea would never pass in uptight, Bible-thumpin', Conservative America.

Hell, we don't even allow stem cell research done in the rest of the world.

And oh yeah, we just tell teens to abstain from sex. That works...

But that's how it's been even since man and dinosaur roamed the Earth together 5,000 years ago in the Garden of Eden.

Reality has a well-known liberal bias. And such proposals as this would only raise taxes.

I know that makes no sense. They just would, OK? Ask anyone.

Oh, and create big government. Almost forgot.

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 9:45:34 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		When are our legal systems going to break free from this tiresome foreign cult I wonder?

Its funny, but my religion - which must be just as valid as the leading brand in our multi-cultural system - never gets so much as a look in on these sorts of issues. And thats fine - I dont expect anyone else to agree; but neither do I expect to be dictated to by others on account of their religious views.

E

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 9:57:49 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		Are you kidding? Legalize prostitution in the US? >.< Hell, they won't even supply condoms to third world countries where prostitution is legal.




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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 10:58:02 AM   
Bethnai


Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline 		That is a pretty steep charge for something that is supposed to be consentual. It doesn't sound very effective either.

I came across an article on the redlight district in Amsterdam being forced to change due to trafficking. If I remember correctly, the landscape had changed so drastically and had become more violent.

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 11:18:04 AM   
Lashra


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Joined: 2/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

How about, they legalize it, regulate it, and tax it!

Oh yeah, that would make too much sense. (insert eye roll here)


I have been saying this same thing for years. It is the worlds oldest profession and it
will never go out of business.

~Lashra


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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 12:23:29 PM   
Satyr6406


Posts: 820
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: New Brunswick, N.J.
Status: offline 		While I believe that prostitution should be legal (and the prostitute should enjoy the same confidence level as a spouse or clergy person, regarding what they can testify to in court), I am also concerned with the charge of "rape"? Excuse me? Are they kidding?
 
At the very least, this would "lessen" actual rape which i a horribly traumatic crime of violence.
 
If we wish to call prostitution a crime (For the purposes of this post), the WORST it should be considered is "operating a business without the correct permits"

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 12:27:41 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		Another social work law that won't work.

The minister reponsible was on the radio earlier and she said it was to protect women that had been trafficed from eastern Europe, made to take drugs and then forced into prostitution. If that really is the reason, then the kidnapping laws, illegal immigration laws, forced prostitution laws, assault laws and just about every other law is inadequate and I can't see what this law is going to do.

Of course this is a law drafted by prim and proper puritan middleclass women of which the centre left has a surplus.

Actually Finland has had such a law for two years and haven't managed to prosecute anyone yet because of the need for evidence. Apparently one man was found hiding naked under the bed of a prostitute who promptly told the police he was inspecting the floor. They couldn't proceed with a prosecution because a) both had the same excuse for him being naked under the bed, b) there was no proof of money being exchanged, c) no proof of soliciting and d) no independent evidence that sex had taken place. A Finish police officer said that if we station policeman in every bedroom in the country we might just be able to make the law work.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/19/2008 12:36:09 PM >

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 12:48:43 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Satyr6406

I am also concerned with the charge of "rape"? Excuse me? Are they kidding?
 
At the very least, this would "lessen" actual rape which i a horribly traumatic crime of violence. 
 


Are you kidding ?  A woman forced by traffickers into taking part in prostitution, either by force or the threat of force, is indeed raped.

What angers me with our hypocritical government, is that they have recently disbanded the countrys only anti people smuggling unit. This hardly signals an intent to deter traffickers does it.

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 12:55:41 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Punter; "are you at this time under the influence of a third party which forces you to provide sex for money?"

Prostitute; "no"

Punter; "great!"

Police; "this is an instance of strict liability and you are under arrest"

Punter; "but I asked and she said no"

Police; "save it for your brief"

Having asked and been informed that paying for sex would not constitute an offence is no defence for this charge. I find this sort of law - where intent is of no interest or relevance, a little disturbing.

E

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 1:02:42 PM   
Darias


Posts: 1757
Joined: 1/17/2006
From: midlands ireland
Status: offline 		what amazes me the most is that in places like the UK ireland  US etc we wor hard creating these laws designed to make prostitution and solicitation more and more difficult.

and it doesnt do a damn thing, not even a tiny dent is made in the industry. if anything governments are screwing themselves out of major tax income.  and the advent of the internet hasnt helped. websites advertising "escorts" are beyond irelands laws because the server is based in amsterdam. or south africa, or any other place where less interest is taken.

fact remains that in the three countries ive mentioned currancy is spent by the governemnts the law enforcement agencys, trying to catch and prosecute both sex workers and their customers.

more often than not this money is wasted. people picked up for solicitation see court rarely, get off with fines or tiny amounts of jail time... the workers get the same treatment, and hours after a court fines them they are back on the streets earning the money to pay the fine. of the several gardai (irish police) i associate with , not one of them thinks the laws in this country trying curb the sex trade work.

so imagine My country had legalised prostitution

well for starters the government who have for the past few months been fighting on several fronts trying to skrimp and save to sort out their budget would have a brand new tax income. sure ya cant call it the " getting jiggy with it tax " (though most taxes pick  up some nicknames and that would be a pretty good one ) but it doesnt need a name to give them a new income... might even do some good

legalisation means standardisation. make hookers legal you can then regulate them with laws . anyone who remembers the very dodgey "barb  wire " movie with pamela anderson will remeber the scene where barb pretends to be a hooker. before she picks up her "john" he makes her show an id with details of her last STD check.... i believe pornstars in the states do something simular. heck we could even give prostitute union members discounts on condoms

legalisation means protection. right now if a sex worker is raped/ abused/ forced to work... who do they go to? cant exactly call the cops . but you make their work as legal as say... barmaids... and suddenly the folk can actually step forward and ask for help when they need it without fear of spending the weekend in a 4X8 room with nice metal windows and a ventalated front wall

the biggest argument i have is...  these people are right now breaking the law , some because they want to , some because they have to. a law that doesnt work. why not change the law so it benifits those who need it , rather than expand those same silly laws based on the moral outrage of a minority who see fit to try and impose their beliefs on the rest of the world

hell highschool friends of mine religiosly went to amsterdam every year strictly for the legal weed and legal " entertainments" which means ireland nmissed out on some good tourism revenue too

Darias


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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 1:10:18 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I believe that prostitution should be legal, and agree with most of the comments above.  I also think legalizing prostitution would go a long way towards eradicating human trafficking, which is supposedly the specter haunting most legislation relating to prostitution.  If it's no longer illegal, it's no longer fertile territory for criminal organizations.

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 2:08:34 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Ignorance is no excuse under the law. That is the essence of what is being proposed and it is not a new legal concept here.  The idea is, if you have any doubt over whether a prostitute is a slave - you simply don't do "business".  The law can't catch the supply side very efficiently, so they aim to tackle the demand side.

The real problem of course, is that the whole issue of trafficked sex slaves is over-hyped.  They make up a tiny proportion of UK sex workers, so action in that area will only have a very limited effect.  This isn't an attack on prostitution as a whole, which was and remains perfectly legal in the UK, contrary to many posters' ideas. 


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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 2:15:26 PM   
Darias


Posts: 1757
Joined: 1/17/2006
From: midlands ireland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks


The real problem of course, is that the whole issue of trafficked sex slaves is over-hyped.  They make up a tiny proportion of UK sex workers, so action in that area will only have a very limited effect.  This isn't an attack on prostitution as a whole, which was and remains perfectly legal in the UK, contrary to many posters' ideas. 




What What What!!!!

ok how did I  NOT know that in college.....

*thinks i need another vacation in london to investigate this whole legal prostitution thing further *

My apoligies for any incorrect statements i made above then... it seems my knowledge of UK law is on par with my knowledge of UK political partys (see BNP thread)

and several of my friends have alot to answer for for not letting me know this last time i was over there and bored

I actually had to COMPLIMENT girls to get laid!!!!

Darias


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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 2:16:31 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Ignorance is no excuse under the law. That is the essence of what is being proposed and it is not a new legal concept here.  The idea is, if you have any doubt over whether a prostitute is a slave - you simply don't do "business".  The law can't catch the supply side very efficiently, so they aim to tackle the demand side.

The real problem of course, is that the whole issue of trafficked sex slaves is over-hyped.  They make up a tiny proportion of UK sex workers, so action in that area will only have a very limited effect.  This isn't an attack on prostitution as a whole, which was and remains perfectly legal in the UK, contrary to many posters' ideas. 




True, prostitution has always been legal but this is just another assault on the perifery in order to attack the problem in the same way making soliciting was made illegal. It is rather dishonest way of tackling prostitution and I suspect it will have unforeseen implications like most badly judged laws that try to tackle a behaviour indirectly.

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 2:44:14 PM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline 		In the early days of our country (USA) if there was no complaining party, no valid complaint, no victim or no one that was injured or damaged, then there was no jurisdiction to prosecute for anything. In other words there was no crime and no need for punishments, incarceration or fines. That has been convoluted to the extent that now the "state" claims to be a victim and claims damages even when there are none. They still usually manage to get some money out of the alleged perpetrator though.

Our freedoms have been given away by the citizens in tiny increments over the years and it has come to the point that now we are guilty of something by virtue of having a heartbeat. Additionally we must now ask permission from the government to do almost anything. Isn't that pretty close to the definition of a police state?

As for prostitution undergoing even further revisions to its level of criminality.... consentual or victimless crimes are simply ridiculous. In the cases of force or coercion involved in the prostitution we already have laws against those acts, as well we should.

Uncle Nasty

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RE: .Prostitution a Criminal Offense. - 11/19/2008 3:14:01 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		~FR~

The issue is probably simpler than this---

Legal prostitution, presumably, would generate substantial income, and that new legal industry would make large financial contributions to political campaigns.

...and I'm guessing not to religious conservatives.

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