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RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/21/2008 1:39:55 PM

MmeGigs

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Insurance for me and the hubby is $14,000/yr. Our out-of-pocket is about $2,000 a year, mostly for dental. Our dental coverage sucks. At our income, we'd be paying roughly the same over there. The difference would be that my daughter and her family would have health insurance, too. They don't have it now.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 21

RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/21/2008 1:51:40 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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I have seen these numbers before, and I am sure you are the one who has posted them, Lady E.
I am trying really hard to understand the difference between a national health plan and a private plan. So I am doing some math.
Today's exchange rate is 1.4872. (Not too bad today, eh?) And we are working with the average income of the average wage earner if I am not misreading.
2,250 pounds then works out to $3,346.20 per year as the average citizens cost coming right out of his or her paycheck.
In addition, each employer pays an additional 3,000 pounds for each and every employee.
3,000 pounds x 1.4872 = $4,461.60
So every person and employer who is actually working and earning a wage is paying $7,807.80 per annum for a national health care plan.
As we can see from the responses thus far, some people have their health care covered in full by their employers as a benefit. Some pay a part of it and the employer pays for some. Some pay for all of it, and the premiums are too high as far as I am concerned. I also cannot say how much these people are earning on an individual basis. For some, perhaps it would be a bit less than what they are paying now, although certainly not for those fortunate enough to have their employers already paying for 100% of it. For others, it may actually mean an increase in how much they pay for health insurance.
But then I read (yet again) about someone who has had very negative experiences with the NHS, and this is not the first time I have heard distressing stories from a variety of countries. I also read that other countries in Europe are better, with the caveat that those people are paying (in Germany, at least) 60% more than in the UK. 60% is a pretty hefty increase when we start getting down to dollars and cents or pounds and pence.
In addition, there is no dental or vision coverage in the UK and each person still pays 7 1/2 pounds per perscription (I know, I know...regardless of the actual cost of the meds). That works out as $11.15 per script in dollars as of today. Call it $12 since I am sure that the exchange rate would not figure into the cost each day of filling a perscription. It is not unusual, however, to have people who are on 6 - 10 medications per month. So without any dental or vision coverage, which would cost extra if and when needed, many people could be paying $75 - $120 a month or more for medications.
The argument for that would be that $100 is a lot cheaper than $1000 or a hard decision that the medication cannot be budgeted. It is a conundrum. But there are still those who might not be able to afford that $100 or so per month. So what to do?
I do have a question, however.
How are the people who are not working (are retired, or on a social welfare program, or just don't work, perhaps they are living a life of crime) covered? Or are they simply SOL?
No NHS healthcard, no healthcare?
I believe that we need to have a serious overhaul of the healthcare system and the related insurances in the USA. But I cannot believe that putting it in the hands of the government will make it better. They are not known for their ability to run an efficient business. They are known for wasting taxpayers money, and I prefer having the options of private insurance. Most people, once something like this goes into effect, would not have the luxury of paying for additional private coverage. They would be stuck with whatever the government decided it could afford.
That is the difference between a National Health Plan and a private insurance policy to Me.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 11/21/2008 1:55:19 PM >

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Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
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Post #: 22

RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/21/2008 2:10:09 PM

calamitysandra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

I also read that other countries in Europe are better, with the caveat that those people are paying (in Germany, at least) 60% more than in the UK. 60% is a pretty hefty increase when we start getting down to dollars and cents or pounds and pence.

Nope. Worker and employer pay about 7,5% off the gross pay for healtinsurance.
Plus, there is a cap (about 4000 Euro) on the amount of your pay that is used for the calculation.

Reality are the 4000 Euro cap for the calculation with 1,25 Euro per Dollar makes 5000$.
15% of that (7,5% for employer and worker each) are 750$ max a month, or 9000$ anually.

Nowhere near a 60% markup. (about 15% in fact, and that only if you reach the cap and earn more than 5000$ a month.)

< Message edited by calamitysandra -- 11/21/2008 2:37:40 PM >

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RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/21/2008 2:33:35 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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From: Arizona
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Thank you for clearing that up. I was going on MC's post about the 60% higher cost.

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Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to calamitysandra)

Post #: 24

RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/21/2008 2:36:45 PM

calamitysandra

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No problem, I have not seen MC post, or I would have cleared it up at that point already.

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RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/21/2008 2:49:11 PM

Lynnxz

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At one point I paid close to 130 a month for truely shitty coverage that did nothing to help me. I canceled soon after.

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Post #: 26

RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/22/2008 3:56:47 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

I also read that other countries in Europe are better, with the caveat that those people are paying (in Germany, at least) 60% more than in the UK. 60% is a pretty hefty increase when we start getting down to dollars and cents or pounds and pence.

Nope. Worker and employer pay about 7,5% off the gross pay for healtinsurance.
Plus, there is a cap (about 4000 Euro) on the amount of your pay that is used for the calculation.

Reality are the 4000 Euro cap for the calculation with 1,25 Euro per Dollar makes 5000$.
15% of that (7,5% for employer and worker each) are 750$ max a month, or 9000$ anually.

Nowhere near a 60% markup. (about 15% in fact, and that only if you reach the cap and earn more than 5000$ a month.)

The 60% is from me. I said the German health service costs 60% more than the British health service. I meant, Germany spends 60% more than the British do on their health service in real terms as part of government spending. I wasn't comparing direct costs to the individual but indirect cost to the average taxpayer, ie. not how much each person pays for healthcare.

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RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/22/2008 4:05:02 AM

meatcleaver

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I've lived in Holland, Belgium, France and Germany and Britain of course, being a Brit. I think all those countries have good national health services. I've heard of nightmare scenarios in all those countries and each country have their own internal detractors and a small minority that would welcome a pure priivate system but I have found that most of the population in each country are happy with their system while acknowldeging short comings. Though I think France has the best system of all but they pay an awful lot for it and even the French quietly acknowledge, what they pay is unsustainable.

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RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/22/2008 7:57:39 AM

LadyEllen

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GDG - the contributions of those working also cover;

those under 16 years of age
those 16-18 in full time education
those over 60
those who have a "maternity exemption certificate"
those who have a "medical exemption certificate"
those who have a War pension exemption
those named on an HC2 charges certificate (no idea what that is)
those receiving a free of charge contraceptive
those getting income support or employment support allowance (low earners)
those who are unemployed
those on an NHS Tax Credit Exemption certificate
those with a partner who gets pension credit guarantee credit

in other words, the poor, the elderly and the unemployed get their scripts free, paid for by those working.

as for those like me on several medications - then assuming one has to pay it can be expensive. but I pay once - a single fee for the year, which saves me around 80% of my annual script charges.

for all its faults, the NHS is great - it provides for all. There is nothing to stop one getting additional private cover if one wishes (if one has the money).

the real problems it has stem from factors shared with the rest of western civilisation - an aging population, a steady hardcore of disenfranchised, and much greater longevity plus the rising cost of providing treatment in terms of medicine costs, the rising expectations of patients and of course the wages bills for the personnel to meet modern standards of care.

E

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RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/22/2008 12:59:23 PM

KatyLied

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quote:

as for those like me on several medications - then assuming one has to pay it can be expensive.

Some of us have the option for maintenance medications to go through mail-order. I get a 3 months supply for the price of a 2 months supply when using this method.

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RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/22/2008 8:12:45 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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From: Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

GDG - the contributions of those working also cover;

those under 16 years of age
those 16-18 in full time education
those over 60
those who have a "maternity exemption certificate"
those who have a "medical exemption certificate"
those who have a War pension exemption
those named on an HC2 charges certificate (no idea what that is)
those receiving a free of charge contraceptive
those getting income support or employment support allowance (low earners)
those who are unemployed
those on an NHS Tax Credit Exemption certificate
those with a partner who gets pension credit guarantee credit

in other words, the poor, the elderly and the unemployed get their scripts free, paid for by those working.

as for those like me on several medications - then assuming one has to pay it can be expensive. but I pay once - a single fee for the year, which saves me around 80% of my annual script charges.

for all its faults, the NHS is great - it provides for all. There is nothing to stop one getting additional private cover if one wishes (if one has the money).

the real problems it has stem from factors shared with the rest of western civilisation - an aging population, a steady hardcore of disenfranchised, and much greater longevity plus the rising cost of providing treatment in terms of medicine costs, the rising expectations of patients and of course the wages bills for the personnel to meet modern standards of care.

E

That's quite a list of certificates!
So once one is over the age of 18, they are expected to be working and contributing to the general welfare in some way? Although I personally scoff at the idea, in this country it is almost expected that the bulk of those 18 years of age who have completed high school will go on to college, and frankly, I have not met that many who work or maybe have only a small part-time job for some extra pocket money. More's the pity, I say, since it is another example of how this country reveres a higher education, which is laughable in most instances and does not really get one better opportunities in the long run. They have just paid more money into educational coffers and spent more time before getting out into the workforce and finding an entry level position that can be filled just as easily with a non-brain dead, high school graduate.
But I digress...
Are many of the English 16 year-olds finished with education at that age? I know it was so, more often than not a generation or two ago, but is that still the norm?
And what does a person who has none of the aforementioned certificates do if they are not gainfully employed and suddenly end up with a serious stab wound. (I am using stab here, as I know it is less likely to have a gunshot wound in England.)
I am asking these questions in all sincerity, Lady E. I am trying to figure out how parallel the cultures might be to make a reasonable comparison in how a similar National Health Plan might work in this country. But I will say, right now, that I can see all the certificates creating a beauraucratic nightmare. And something I am sure our tax and spend with abandon government would put into effect with great glee.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 31

RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/22/2008 9:55:34 PM

variation30

Posts: 1190
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From: Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I have a very small company so therefore I get little in the way of a group discount and I pay $264.00 per employee per month for a good policy. I know I could get a less expensive policy but the coverage is as good as I can get and as a perk for my slaried people it keeps them with me and provides for what they need. I do shop it yearly, but I think as a benefit I want them to have as good a policy as I can afford.

what I'm on right now is about that. I have no complaints.

my friend is in law school here at ua and his wife is a public school teacher at a local high school. they are both covered at 200$'s a month. and it's a pretty good plan. I was on it until recently as my mother worked at a high school.

privatized healthcare is the way to go.

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Post #: 32

RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/22/2008 10:10:29 PM

variation30

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From: Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

My conclusion so far is that some are getting royally screwed over, some are doing OK and some are doing very well indeed, nothwithstanding the millions that have no cover at all.

E

I don't know anybody who has no coverage at all. I don't think I've even heard any family/friends/friends' family ever having trouble with insurance. And I'm situated firmly in the middle class. I think only 15% of our population in the US is without health coverage. that doesn't seem too egregious to me.

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all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

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Post #: 33

RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/23/2008 12:59:40 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

I don't know anybody who has no coverage at all. I don't think I've even heard any family/friends/friends' family ever having trouble with insurance. And I'm situated firmly in the middle class. I think only 15% of our population in the US is without health coverage. that doesn't seem too egregious to me.

Some interesting facts:
(from the National Coalition on Healthcare)

Who are the uninsured?

• Nearly 47 million Americans, or 16 percent of the population, were without health insurance in 2005, the latest government data available.1
• The number of uninsured rose 2.2 million between 2005 and 2006 and has increased by almost 9 million people since 2000.1
• The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.2
• The increase in the number of uninsured in 2006 was focused among working age adults. The percentage of working adults (18 to 64) who had no health coverage climbed from 19.7 percent in 2005 to 20.2 percent in 2006.1 Nearly 1.3 million full-time workers lost their health insurance in 2006.
• Nearly 90 million people - about one-third of the population below the age of 65 spent a portion of either 2006 or 2007 without health coverage.3
• Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families - almost 70 percent from families with one or more full-time workers and 11 percent from families with part-time workers.2
• The percentage of people (workers and dependents) with employment-based health insurance has dropped from 70 percent in 1987 to 59 percent in 2006. This is the lowest level of employment-based insurance coverage in more than a decade.4, 5
• In 2005, nearly 15 percent of employees had no employer-sponsored health coverage available to them, either through their own job or through a family member.6
• In 2006, 37.7 million workers were uninsured because not all businesses offer health benefits, not all workers qualify for coverage and many employees cannot afford their share of the health insurance premium even when coverage is at their fingertips.1
• The number of uninsured children in 2006 was 8.7 million - or 11.7 percent of all children in the U.S.1 The number of children who are uninsured increased by nearly 610,000 in 2006, the second year that the number of uninsured children increased.
• Young adults (18-to-24 years old) remained the least likely of any age group to have health insurance in 2005 - 29.3 percent of this group did not have health insurance.1
• The percentage and the number of uninsured Hispanics increased to 34.1 percent and 15.3 million in 2006.1
• Nearly 40 percent of the uninsured population reside in households that earn $50,000 or more.1 A growing number of middle-income families cannot afford health insurance payments even when coverage is offered by their employers.

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RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/23/2008 2:25:03 AM

variation30

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From: Alabama
Status: offline

yeah. that doesn't sound too bad to me.

I'll take privitized healthcare + great quality + next to no waits any day of the week.

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Post #: 35

RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/23/2008 3:21:49 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30

yeah. that doesn't sound too bad to me.

I'll take privitized healthcare + great quality + next to no waits any day of the week.

You need to find a system that delivers what you want for a reasonable price because private healthcare doesn't deliver what you want.

I often wonder why Americans think private healthcare works when every other country that has tried it has rejected it as expensive and on top of that, doesn't deliver.

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Post #: 36

RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/23/2008 4:17:40 AM

variation30

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Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

You need to find a system that delivers what you want for a reasonable price because private healthcare doesn't deliver what you want.

I often wonder why Americans think private healthcare works when every other country that has tried it has rejected it as expensive and on top of that, doesn't deliver.

um...it delivers what I want. it does it very well.

and I also want private health care because I don't want to pay for anyone else's services, nor do I want them paying for mine.

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all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

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Post #: 37

RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/23/2008 5:20:57 AM

Crush

Posts: 1031
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People have health care....they go to free clinics or emergency rooms. They may not be covered by an insurance policy, but their basic needs are met. Sure, long waits, but as I remember a nice simplification:

Cheap; Good; Fast Pick any two.

Let's supposed you always want GOOD healthcare:
If you want Fast and Good, it won't be Cheap.
If you want Cheap(free) and Good, it won't be Fast.

But if you want Cheap(free) and Fast, it won't be Good.

Basic economics. People get good healthcare in the US if they are willing to either wait or pay. If they aren't willing to do either, then most likely they won't get decent care either.

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RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/23/2008 5:34:44 AM

Aileen1968

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I've sat in an emergency room to get stitches over the summer and I can tell you that having insurance does not put you at the front of the line. I was second to last to be seen that night...after the girl with no insurance who was there for poison ivy on her arm. There are affordable health care plans out there for people. They may have to sacrifice some things in their lives like fast food and cigarettes every now and then to find the money. But that doesn't play into the new motto of this coutry for the last bunch of years. We have become a country that expects everything to be handed to us instead of working hard for it. How many people who don't have insurance have cell phones, xboxes, ipods, etc? It's a matter of priority.

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Post #: 39

RE: so what does US private healthcare cost? - 11/23/2008 6:25:32 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

That's quite a list of certificates!
So once one is over the age of 18, they are expected to be working and contributing to the general welfare in some way? Although I personally scoff at the idea, in this country it is almost expected that the bulk of those 18 years of age who have completed high school will go on to college, and frankly, I have not met that many who work or maybe have only a small part-time job for some extra pocket money. More's the pity, I say, since it is another example of how this country reveres a higher education, which is laughable in most instances and does not really get one better opportunities in the long run. They have just paid more money into educational coffers and spent more time before getting out into the workforce and finding an entry level position that can be filled just as easily with a non-brain dead, high school graduate.
But I digress...
Are many of the English 16 year-olds finished with education at that age? I know it was so, more often than not a generation or two ago, but is that still the norm?
And what does a person who has none of the aforementioned certificates do if they are not gainfully employed and suddenly end up with a serious stab wound. (I am using stab here, as I know it is less likely to have a gunshot wound in England.)
I am asking these questions in all sincerity, Lady E. I am trying to figure out how parallel the cultures might be to make a reasonable comparison in how a similar National Health Plan might work in this country. But I will say, right now, that I can see all the certificates creating a beauraucratic nightmare. And something I am sure our tax and spend with abandon government would put into effect with great glee.

One can leave school at 16 still I believe - but we now pay kids to stay on and get more qualifications (or resit the ones they failed at 16). I'm sure its purely coincidental that the payment to stay on is less than the dole for unemployment.

But yes, we do and should expect people to contribute once theyre adults. The problem being that someone 16-18 with no qualifications is unlikely to be able to contribute (ie get a job). There is a route for such people (well, girls anyway) by getting pregnant and thereby securing social housing and welfare payments, but obviously we'd rather not have that happening so we pay them to stay on at school and hopefully come out and be able to get a job.

I believe there are plans to make education to 18 compulsory, but not too sure.

As for the stab wound victim (and gunshot wounds are rising, despite the ban on firearms so that worked out well), he/she gets treated at the ER regardless of who he/she is or where he/she is from - emergencies are treated with few questions asked, even for failed asylum seekers and illegal immigrants (not entitled to NHS treatment otherwise though sympathetic medical types do provide it). The only billing that goes on is for the ambulance if youre in a road traffic accident.

Everyone is covered by our system. Where there are instances of "co-pays" here then everyone who needs it gets help with them. The system for such can be as simple or complicated as one wants it to be - just depends who one feels needs and deserves help. Some who need it most certainly dont deserve it, but then no system is ever perfect - but then personally I find it horrendous the potential problems of a US style system which only seems to want to know if one doesnt need any healthcare!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Post #: 40

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