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RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 6:23:16 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		What I see in this whole story is two people, one a soldier, one a civilian, who both stopped into a pub and got a little tipsy and then into a disagreement.  It happens, and IMO, neither is at fault or is to blame.  Or both are.

What I disagree with is not supporting the soldiers because you don't support the war.  It wasn't their choice to have a war, but it's their duty to fight it.  I think we're all a little spoiled because we tend to win wars, or at least keep them contained to another area in the world rather than letting them invade our own countries.  But if those tables ever turn and we ARE invaded, it's going to be those soldiers that are out there fighting and dying to save our asses. 

Also, I never make a judgement against a soldier, even if he's "only" fought in Iraq.  You don't know what he came from, who stepped on a land mine while walking with him, who was shot and killed while standing beside him, who got blown up by a suicide bomber while he was watching, or who may have died in his arms.  So if he's acting out while blowing off some steam in a pub, well, I'd cut him a little bit of slack. 

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 6:36:20 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		I would expect that coming from you Greedy Top. 
It is a wonder that the soldiers did  not beat the Op up.  We would have done that and that was peace time.
Honor, Duty, Country.  It is the creed of the military. To bad the leaders of this country don't follow the same creed that they put our troops in.  That is what makes  me furious. 
 
I shake everyone's hand both men and women who are in uniform and thank them for their service.  If I find out they served in any war, I do the same.
It is all about respect for people who give us our freedom and will sacrifice their lives for whatever cost it may be. 
 
No need to have a draft.  We have many brave and honerable peope who will do it on their own.
 
SCD
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I agree with TH and Popeye


:: thud ::

ETA:  MissSCD, as far as I know, the UK does not have a draft (neither does the US, last I checked).  I think calling her a coward and slime is rather rude. She is just as entitled to her opinion as you are, and there is NOTHING that she said that came off as CRUEL, IMNSHO.


(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 6:42:09 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

It wasn't their choice to have a war, but it's their duty to fight it. 

I think we're all a little spoiled because we tend to win wars, or at least keep them contained to another area in the world rather than letting them invade our own countries. 

You don't know what he came from

I'd cut him a little bit of slack. 



I'd maintain your own views, rather than cast assertions relating to "you" or "we".

It's not difficult to imagine what it must be like for a Mother who's just had her house flattened and her husband is now dead, and there are no jobs anymore from which to earn a living and feed her children who are now scavenging in among the rubble because there's little food, and the sanitation system no longer exists; or children who are now minus two parents and have to fend for themselves. Extrapolate this beyond a family, and you have widespread misery and suffering, which is the case of Iraq at the hands of the occupying forces, who, being kind to them, are there on the stated objective of changing the way they think.

All on the back of someone 'doing his duty'?.....'just following orders'?......it doesn't wash here. It's not my idea of 'honour'.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 6:45:12 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		SCD.. I deal with military personnel 6 days a week.  As has been said, an asshole is STILL an asshole whether he/she is wearing jeans, a suit, or a uniform.

I have respect for the person, if they are deserving of it.

I am a military brat.  My PARENTS are the ones that taught me that because someone is wearing a uniform it doesnt make them any more sacred than anyone else - judge a person on their merits, not their clothing.


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 6:45:56 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Well, that's why I put "I think" and "I'd" in front of the statements. 



_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 6:53:20 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

I am very glad you enjoyed your time at the pub.   I disagree with you 100%.  I maybe against the war  in Iraq.  The reason is the kids are being killed because they believe in somthing that does not exisit anymore.  They believe in American Pride, Duty, Honor, and Country.   Until You are brave enough to take the oath to serve in the military, I suggest that you search your soul for the cruel things you  just said.    I call you a coward.  Cowards are the ones who will not serve when called.  You are a worm. 
I proudly served my country during the Reagan years.  It was three years I will never forget.  I learned Respect, Duty, Honor, and Country.  Yes, you should respect that uniform.  
The military serves without regard of their own health, family, and friends just to help slime like youl
Oh, I hope I was not to bold.

Regards, MissSCD



I just read this post to the retired military person sitting across the room from me. His words where "What an ass! That attitude would have gotten your ass kicked in our unit. Assholes exist everywhere, a uniform does not change asshole status. In our unit, we stressed that we served to preserve the freedom to have ALL points of view, anti war, anti military, anti whatever. It is our right as a citizen of the United States of America." End of quote.

That from a 25 year vet that saw stuff I cannot imagine.

I've spent my life surrounded my military personel. A uniform does not guarantee the person wearing it deserves one ounce of my respect.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 6:54:56 AM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

Well, that's why I put "I think" and "I'd" in front of the statements. 



Not quite. "We're all a little spoiled"....."You don't know".........prompting an appeal "to cut them some slack"?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 7:01:37 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

A perfect snapshot of modern Britain; a bouncer in a kebab shop because otherwise fairly innocuous people get rolling drunk and enter arguments they'd usually have the sense to avoid

E


Yes, the fourth largest economy in the world - not bad for a small country off the North West coast of Europe - is fuelled by kebabs and drunks. Ellen, this isn't one of your more representative snapshots.


Indeed, after all this scene is isolated to only every city and town across the UK every weekend and often throughout the week too. Not at all representative.

E

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 7:12:09 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

A perfect snapshot of modern Britain; a bouncer in a kebab shop because otherwise fairly innocuous people get rolling drunk and enter arguments they'd usually have the sense to avoid

E


Yes, the fourth largest economy in the world - not bad for a small country off the North West coast of Europe - is fuelled by kebabs and drunks. Ellen, this isn't one of your more representative snapshots.


Indeed, after all this scene is isolated to only every city and town across the UK every weekend and often throughout the week too. Not at all representative.

E


Ellen, it's all matter of whether or not you want to focus on the actions of the few, and disregard the actions of the many; 'representative' is bound up in a sample that reflects the majority, at least in my eyes.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 7:18:07 AM   
gumshoe


Posts: 68
Joined: 10/13/2008
Status: offline 		Sure respecting the role is easy, whereas respecting the individual occupying can be another matter.

If he didn't treat who with respect why should you treat him with respect, what do they say about doing unto others as they do unto you?

Respecting the services doesn't mean you are able to respect all service men and women, only their individual conduct decides that.

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Where there is no imagination there is no horror, Arthur Conan-Doyle.


(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 7:23:30 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Whether its a minority or a few, this is the common experience of our night time culture NG. The reason why we dont see everyone out and about in the "night time economy" is that the majority have the sense to avoid it, instead staying in and hoping their car wont be vandalised and they wont have piss or puke on their doorsteps next morning, after which they might just have managed to get a decent night's sleep.

If an alien landed in any market town centre on a Friday night, this is what they would see; thus, even for those few hours, this is very much representative of our country. If any tourist was over here, this is what they would see - subject to them ignoring the warnings given.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 7:25:03 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

I would expect that coming from you Greedy Top. 
Greedy Top makes some good points and I agree with her.
 

It is a wonder that the soldiers did  not beat the Op up. 
Well that would have shown us how much they deserved respect. When I was in the army they taught us to act responsibly. Starting a brawl while drunk doesn't fall under acting responisbly to me.
 
We would have done that and that was peace time.
You would attack a civilian because she didn't show you respect. I hope at the point you would have been shown the brig.
 

Honor, Duty, Country.  It is the creed of the military. To bad the leaders of this country don't follow the same creed that they put our troops in.  That is what makes  me furious.
  
 
I shake everyone's hand both men and women who are in uniform and thank them for their service.  If I find out they served in any war, I do the same.
It is all about respect for people who give us our freedom and will sacrifice their lives for whatever cost it may be. 
 
No need to have a draft.  We have many brave and honerable peope who will do it on their own.

 
SCD
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I agree with TH and Popeye


:: thud ::

ETA:  MissSCD, as far as I know, the UK does not have a draft (neither does the US, last I checked).  I think calling her a coward and slime is rather rude. She is just as entitled to her opinion as you are, and there is NOTHING that she said that came off as CRUEL, IMNSHO.




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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to MissSCD)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 7:41:15 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		thanks, Boi :) *hug*

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 7:42:13 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Interestingly though, this thread comes down to booze, alcohol, it seems despite our owners trying to curb our taste, we need it, we need to float in the stuff. If it weren't so, and we were teetotal, would we have the problems we have, possibly not, but then if we were all civil and law abiding, what use would there be for the societal mechanics we have built up to control us?

Would Squaddies be as keen to do their job if alcohol was taken away ?


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 11/22/2008 7:52:01 AM >

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 7:51:42 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		I agree Anerin the event was very much booze driven and probably wouldnt have occured had it not been involved.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 8:03:18 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		I don't think he quite realizes how MANY people are in the armed forces... and he is not a special little snowflake. O.o  Besides he was probably just trying to score a free drink

SCD, saying that you would attack someone, who offered no violence towards you, just a differing of opinion.... paints a great picture of your military involvement.


< Message edited by Lynnxz -- 11/22/2008 8:07:03 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 8:18:35 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		I used to be in the Amy but that’s a bit different.
 
mmmm Amy, back in the days when twisting square flashbulbs on cameras blinded you for twenty seconds

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 11/22/2008 8:22:10 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 8:20:44 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

I used to be in the Amy but that’s a bit different.


Depends what Amy thought of you I suppose


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 8:27:05 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		They think?

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The armed services - 11/22/2008 8:28:53 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Interestingly though, this thread comes down to booze, alcohol, it seems despite our owners trying to curb our taste, we need it, we need to float in the stuff. If it weren't so, and we were teetotal, would we have the problems we have, possibly not, but then if we were all civil and law abiding, what use would there be for the societal mechanics we have built up to control us?

Would Squaddies be as keen to do their job if alcohol was taken away ?




         Alcohol doesn't create anything, it just releases what is already present. 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 40
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