RE: Real ID, will you carry ID???

RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (Full Version)

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popeye1250 -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/22/2008 11:31:58 PM)
In the early 60's in Massachusetts they still had the "vagrancy laws" on the books. If you didn't have $2 on you and an I.D. they could lock you up for being,....a "vagrant." I think it was an easy way for the cops to get someone off the street that they didn't want on the street. Massachusetts may be a "liberal" state but Massachusetts cops are anything but liberal!

BbwCanaDomme -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/22/2008 11:41:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 In the early 60's in Massachusetts they still had the "vagrancy laws" on the books. If you didn't have $2 on you and an I.D. they could lock you up for being,....a "vagrant." I think it was an easy way for the cops to get someone off the street that they didn't want on the street. Massachusetts may be a "liberal" state but Massachusetts cops are anything but liberal! Wow, that's a really shitty law. I had never heard of that. Although I do know of some homeless people that commit crimes just to get arrested for food/shelter so I guess it wouldn't be all bad... But if you had just lost your wallet and wearing awful clothes, I could see how being arrested as a vagrant would suck.

popeye1250 -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/22/2008 11:56:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 In the early 60's in Massachusetts they still had the "vagrancy laws" on the books. If you didn't have $2 on you and an I.D. they could lock you up for being,....a "vagrant." I think it was an easy way for the cops to get someone off the street that they didn't want on the street. Massachusetts may be a "liberal" state but Massachusetts cops are anything but liberal! Wow, that's a really shitty law. I had never heard of that. Although I do know of some homeless people that commit crimes just to get arrested for food/shelter so I guess it wouldn't be all bad... But if you had just lost your wallet and wearing awful clothes, I could see how being arrested as a vagrant would suck. Yeah, I think those "vagrancy laws" were part of the "Blue Laws" that were put on the books 200 years ago; no alchohol sales on sundays, no stores open on sundays, all kinds of wierd stuff. Mass used to be a stuffed up old Yankee state in the 1800's and for three quarters of the 1900's. When I was growing up there the cops would slug people at the drop of a hat.

variation30 -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 12:24:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme quote: for one, the federal government can augment the current real id's so that they contain more information all for our 'safety and health' - which would fly in the face of privacy. the real id act puts no restrictions on what the id card can be used for in the future. the fear is that this is opening the door for a national id that is required for things other than flying or entering a federal building/nuclear power plant. and let's not kid ourselves, that's what's going to happen. Example? I'm still not seeing why this is a big deal. What are you worried about happening? it's bad enough we have SSN's and are required to carry ID (Jefferson would've shot a bitch if he found out this was happening)... but as far as what I"m worried about, I'm worried about the federal government passing legislation that makes any interaction within the 'private' sector (if only such a thing existed) require a national ID card. most of these things require a state/national ID as it is. post-patriot act you have to show two froms of ID to open a bank account. you have to have a SSN to go to school, to work, etc. you cannot fly if you don't have ID. you cannot use credit cards/cheques if you don't have an ID. and so on and so on. it's already bad enough...but the threats to privacy increase if a single federal agency is in charge of a system that keeps tabs on everything from our purchases to our medical history. I'm of the opinion that any move away from rugged individualism towards a more collectivised centralization is a bad, bad thing. why? well, let's say that the ubermensch who work in government make a few bad decisions that I want to ignore...it makes it more difficult to do such with this kind of oversight. let's say in a few decades the 2nd amendment is completely stricken out. I may want to ignore this and keep a gun or five around just in case I have to protect myself or my loved ones from some type of aggression. it's much more difficult for me to take these steps if every purchase or withdrawal I make is recorded in a federal database. or let's take a look at this example...I don't have a lot of money, but what I do have saved is in several ounces of gold. what if a law is passed that makes it illegal for american citizens to privately own gold (which was done under fdr and was maintained up until the nixon years). well, I can't hide my wealth as the government knows that I purchased a few pamp suisse bars and isn't going to take 'um, I lost them now get off my property' as an answer. privacy is a very valuable asset that protects you from aggression (by more than a few sources). and to be honest, I'm not going to give it up and throw my fate to the competence and altruism of politicians.

Lockit -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 12:39:33 AM)
You also need a social security card for school grants, of which you seem to have no problem with. ROFL

BbwCanaDomme -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 12:40:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 it's bad enough we have SSN's and are required to carry ID (Jefferson would've shot a bitch if he found out this was happening)... but as far as what I"m worried about, I'm worried about the federal government passing legislation that makes any interaction within the 'private' sector (if only such a thing existed) require a national ID card. most of these things require a state/national ID as it is. post-patriot act you have to show two froms of ID to open a bank account. you have to have a SSN to go to school, to work, etc. you cannot fly if you don't have ID. you cannot use credit cards/cheques if you don't have an ID. and so on and so on. it's already bad enough...but the threats to privacy increase if a single federal agency is in charge of a system that keeps tabs on everything from our purchases to our medical history. I'm of the opinion that any move away from rugged individualism towards a more collectivised centralization is a bad, bad thing. why? well, let's say that the ubermensch who work in government make a few bad decisions that I want to ignore...it makes it more difficult to do such with this kind of oversight. let's say in a few decades the 2nd amendment is completely stricken out. I may want to ignore this and keep a gun or five around just in case I have to protect myself or my loved ones from some type of aggression. it's much more difficult for me to take these steps if every purchase or withdrawal I make is recorded in a federal database. or let's take a look at this example...I don't have a lot of money, but what I do have saved is in several ounces of gold. what if a law is passed that makes it illegal for american citizens to privately own gold (which was done under fdr and was maintained up until the nixon years). well, I can't hide my wealth as the government knows that I purchased a few pamp suisse bars and isn't going to take 'um, I lost them now get off my property' as an answer. privacy is a very valuable asset that protects you from aggression (by more than a few sources). and to be honest, I'm not going to give it up and throw my fate to the competence and altruism of politicians. See, I don't see this as a bad thing. I think it's good that you can trace guns/flights back to people, because it won't affect the majority of people, but it will effect the people who choose to to retarded things on flights/with guns. While I think it would be terrible if they were to make it illegal for individuals to own gold (that makes no sense to me at all, why would that have been implemented in the first place? I don't want to have to wikipedia it haha), I think for the most part, the good out weighs the bad. SSN I think are somewhat like our SIN numbers we have here, and are used for tax purposes, which I would assume makes it easier when it comes time to file them (I wouldn't know, I don't deal with my own taxes haha). For credit cards/checks, I would be more upset if I wasn't asked for id, because I wouldn't want someone using my credit card without consent. I'm still not really seeing the downside.

variation30 -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 2:18:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit You also need a social security card for school grants, of which you seem to have no problem with. ROFL like totally LMAO!

variation30 -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 2:23:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 it's bad enough we have SSN's and are required to carry ID (Jefferson would've shot a bitch if he found out this was happening)... but as far as what I"m worried about, I'm worried about the federal government passing legislation that makes any interaction within the 'private' sector (if only such a thing existed) require a national ID card. most of these things require a state/national ID as it is. post-patriot act you have to show two froms of ID to open a bank account. you have to have a SSN to go to school, to work, etc. you cannot fly if you don't have ID. you cannot use credit cards/cheques if you don't have an ID. and so on and so on. it's already bad enough...but the threats to privacy increase if a single federal agency is in charge of a system that keeps tabs on everything from our purchases to our medical history. I'm of the opinion that any move away from rugged individualism towards a more collectivised centralization is a bad, bad thing. why? well, let's say that the ubermensch who work in government make a few bad decisions that I want to ignore...it makes it more difficult to do such with this kind of oversight. let's say in a few decades the 2nd amendment is completely stricken out. I may want to ignore this and keep a gun or five around just in case I have to protect myself or my loved ones from some type of aggression. it's much more difficult for me to take these steps if every purchase or withdrawal I make is recorded in a federal database. or let's take a look at this example...I don't have a lot of money, but what I do have saved is in several ounces of gold. what if a law is passed that makes it illegal for american citizens to privately own gold (which was done under fdr and was maintained up until the nixon years). well, I can't hide my wealth as the government knows that I purchased a few pamp suisse bars and isn't going to take 'um, I lost them now get off my property' as an answer. privacy is a very valuable asset that protects you from aggression (by more than a few sources). and to be honest, I'm not going to give it up and throw my fate to the competence and altruism of politicians. See, I don't see this as a bad thing. I think it's good that you can trace guns/flights back to people, because it won't affect the majority of people, but it will effect the people who choose to to retarded things on flights/with guns. While I think it would be terrible if they were to make it illegal for individuals to own gold (that makes no sense to me at all, why would that have been implemented in the first place? I don't want to have to wikipedia it haha), I think for the most part, the good out weighs the bad. SSN I think are somewhat like our SIN numbers we have here, and are used for tax purposes, which I would assume makes it easier when it comes time to file them (I wouldn't know, I don't deal with my own taxes haha). For credit cards/checks, I would be more upset if I wasn't asked for id, because I wouldn't want someone using my credit card without consent. I'm still not really seeing the downside. see, I see this as a bad thing. though some people may buy into the whole 'this is a great thing b/c we'll catch the terrorists' argument, I do not. I don't think the chance for us catching someone who might do a 'retarded thing on a plane with a gun' is worth the risk of the government being able to tell who has what kind of property in case they make a horrendously restricting law that limits individual freedoms. it was implemented by fdr. I'll leave it at that, though if you really want me to explain it, I'll take a tranquilizer and discuss fdr. and I'm the kind of person who never thinks that the ends justifies the means, or that the good outweighs the bad. if you're not seeing the downside of the possibility of having to use a trackable government id in every transaction, trade, or action in your life...the odds are you will never see it.

Icarys -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 7:47:14 AM)
The government has no business sticking it's nose farther up the arse's of the American public. It's gone way to far as it is. It doesn't matter the reason's as to why this is good or bad. I have a right to privacy and that means from the next door fella's and from the oh so trustworthy politicians as well.

LadyEllen -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 7:56:35 AM)
if you are law abiding then you have nothing to fear from carrying an ID on the other hand, if you dont carry an ID it is clear evidence of your criminal nature and intent its really not a big deal to have ID - we all have it in some way or another; the big deal is the nature of ID being brought in now on the basis of fear and suspicion and the "equality of all" approach which means everyone must be guilty until proven innocent. where its also a big deal is the capabilities of modern ID cards to store information which the holder him/herself doesnt know is on the card - information which can be manipulated by those in authority, either deliberately and with evil intent or more likely accidentally, to render one an unperson at a stroke. E

rulemylife -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 7:59:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Actually, i think here in the states it is illegal for an adult to not have an official ID, either a DL or an ID on them of the state of which they are a resident or a passport or military id some type of official ID. I believe these laws were in effect long before 911 etc. They can actually be given i believe its a ticket of you are stopped or asked for same by law enforcement and can produce no official ID. This however, is not oft times enforced, but i do believe it is law in most if not all of the US States. I don't know the specifics on it, but i do believe its already a law an adult must carry some form of official ID on them or they can be cited. Our drivers licenses are by State, so if you drive you technically already have such an ID on you (let's hope). angel No, not in any state ever are you required to carry ID unless you are doing a specific activity, like driving a car, that has a specific law associated with it to prove you are licensed in that activity.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 8:01:11 AM)
Don't forget to mention the I.D. will need a photo and the photo will have to be updated every so often like the new driving licenses and there will be a fee payable by the individual for this. It's a good way of raising taxes, I wonder what the difference is between the cost of processing and the charge they levy.

rulemylife -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 8:12:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme quote: ORIGINAL: rachel529 read 1984 by george orwell. I've read it multiple times, it's my favorite book. There's a big difference between a piece of id and that book. That's a really silly comparison. No, it's not, because if you compare what Orwell wrote years ago to what has slowly happened since then, without most people paying attention, you find remarkable similarities. There are legitimate circumstances when an ID should be required but there are as many circumstances where it is purely an invasion of privacy.

MstrDouglas -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 8:16:21 AM)
I do believe, if you check, there is a law in almost every state that requires you to produce some form of ID when a law enforcement officer, or other gov official, asks for one. It is one of those funny things, no law requiring you to have one....but there is a law that when asked for one, you must produce one. I'm not sure about all states, but here it is a citation offense, not really a "go directly to jail" one, depending on the reason you are being asked or it.

rulemylife -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 8:30:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen if you are law abiding then you have nothing to fear from carrying an ID on the other hand, if you dont carry an ID it is clear evidence of your criminal nature and intent its really not a big deal to have ID - we all have it in some way or another; the big deal is the nature of ID being brought in now on the basis of fear and suspicion and the "equality of all" approach which means everyone must be guilty until proven innocent. where its also a big deal is the capabilities of modern ID cards to store information which the holder him/herself doesnt know is on the card - information which can be manipulated by those in authority, either deliberately and with evil intent or more likely accidentally, to render one an unperson at a stroke. E I seem to be missing something here, unless you were being facetious. Isn't being assumed guilty until proven innocent reason enough to be opposed to a requirement to carry ID?

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 8:34:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: calamitysandra I even remember being proud to get it for the first time. Why????

Surata -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 8:40:35 AM)
I have an ID, but I never actually use it for identification purposes other than cashing a check. I've been stopped and asked several times to show identification by random police officers simply because of the pendant I wear (a kirpan), and I have yet to comply. (Almost got arrested once over this, and it didn't change my mind about my actions.) I'm not doing this out of some childish "fuck you" mentality when it comes to authority figures... I just don't see a reason to justify my existence to strangers. Especially when I have done nothing to warrant suspicion of bad behavior. And it doesn't hurt that I have several people and a couple of organizations to go to in case things do get out of hand.

calamitysandra -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 8:43:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy quote: ORIGINAL: calamitysandra I even remember being proud to get it for the first time. Why???? Because it was something special, grown up. You can not get a Personalausweis until you are 16, then you are required to have one. (There are special child ID documents, mainly for travel) Getting your ID meant that you have made one more step into the realm of adulthood. Remember, I was 16 at the time. [8\|] Now, my ID is just is a piece of plastic to me, I am no longer proud to have one, but it does not bother me. It is not as if police officers are running around all day, randomly asking you for ID. I had to show my ID a whooping total of once (airports and borders not counted).

Evility -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 8:48:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 you cannot use credit cards/cheques if you don't have an ID. Maybe I am just obtuse but I see this as something that is intended to protect me and my money.

Phoenixpower -> RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? (11/23/2008 8:57:26 AM)
Indeed, in germany you have to carry your "Personalausweis" with you, from 16 onwards and it was never a problem for me at all. In UK I dont carry it with me as I lost/or got stolen my wallet twice and I am tired of getting a new ID-card at home. Therefore I am not bothered about that here. But also in germany we had to register us at the local authority in the new area when we moved our flat/house within a certain period of time after moving, which was another helpful way to keep track of the population and where we are registered. I am still registered in germany with my parents, as here in UK nobody bothers about who is living where anyway, but once I would move with my Master further oversea, I would be happy to leave this register officially as well.

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