Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (Full Version)

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celticlord2112 -> Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 2:35:12 PM)

Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide?

Assuming she becomes Secretary of State, isn't her job to be an advocate for the United States worldwide?




Musicmystery -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 2:55:02 PM)

I know you aren't honestly asking, since your repeated game plan is to throw out loaded questions.

But since you ask about the job on a public forum, the answer is no.

Here's the job (from the "U.S. Government Guide"):

"The secretary of state is the administrator of the Department of State and the principal spokesperson for the President on U.S. foreign policy. The secretary serves as a member of the President's “inner cabinet” of advisers and, by law, as a member of the National Security Council. The secretary has the primary responsibility for preparing the budget for foreign affairs programs, including diplomatic missions, foreign aid to developing nations, and contributions to multinational organizations such as the World Bank, the Inter-American Development Bank, and the International Monetary Fund. The secretary defends foreign affairs programs before subcommittees of the House and Senate Appropriations Committees and is the principal spokesperson for the administration before the House Foreign Affairs Committee and Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The President may also assign the secretary to communicate foreign policy to foreign heads of state or to serve as the principal U.S. diplomat at international conferences.

"As head of the first department of government established in 1789, the secretary is the first cabinet officer in line to succeed to the Presidency in the event there is no Vice President, Speaker of the House, or president pro tempore of the Senate to assume the office. A Presidential resignation is submitted to the secretary of state.

"Though some secretaries are highly influential advisers and policymakers, others have merely administered the State Department. Thomas Jefferson, the first secretary of state, resigned from George Washington's cabinet because his pro-French policies were not adopted. For the first two decades of the 19th century, each secretary of state was an influential shaper of foreign policy, and each became the next President: James Madison, James Monroe, and John Quincy Adams. Daniel Webster ran U.S. foreign policy when President John Tyler and the Whig Congress remained stalemated in domestic matters. William Seward wrote a memorandum to Abraham Lincoln in which he offered to run foreign policy, but Lincoln wrote back that as President he would retain final responsibility; Seward's main accomplishment was buying Alaska from Russia. Franklin Roosevelt used Presidential assistants to implement his policies, bypassing his secretary of state, Cordell Hull. President Harry Truman, by contrast, relied heavily on George Marshall, who proposed the Marshall Plan for economic recovery in Western Europe after World War II, and Dean Acheson. Acheson was the architect of the U.S. policies of collective security—making alliances to confront aggressor nations—and containment of communist aggression."




celticlord2112 -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 3:23:16 PM)

It is a question--honest or not I will leave to you.  However, your commentary leaves the question largely unanswered.

Why would the "head diplomat" for the United States be advocating anything besides U.S. interests and U.S. policy?  What justification can you offer for such a thing?

Follow-on question:  How are issues and concerns of women "worldwide" an item of interest in the formulation and implementation of U.S. policy?  What makes such issues a U.S. interest?




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 3:32:00 PM)

Maybe worldwide women’s rights are in the interests of the U.S too? 
Perhaps nations that respect the rights of women will become more enlightened and so less of a threat and perhaps a little easier to trade with?
How is that Taliban trade deal with the US going for you? Is all they have to offer drugs still?
 [8|]




celticlord2112 -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 3:33:24 PM)

quote:

Maybe worldwide women’s rights are in the interests of the U.S too?

Care to put some meat on those bones? Otherwise, you're just restating the original question.




Musicmystery -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 3:41:54 PM)

quote:

Care to put some meat on those bones? Otherwise, you're just restating the original question.


He might say the same for you.

If you've a supported claim to make, please make it.

Your "question" has already been answered. From there---she serves at the pleasure of the President. If she doesn't perform as required, she can readily be fired.

Next innuendo.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 3:46:05 PM)

quote:


If you've a supported claim to make, please make it.

U.S. foreign policy is and should be about advancing specific U.S. interests, not playing moral policeman to the world.  Suggesting that any Secretary of State be an advocate for anything that goes beyond specific U.S. interests runs counter to developing an effective U.S. foreign policy.

That is my claim.  Rather, to satisfy the pickers of nits, it is my opinion.

Do you have a rebuttal to make?






Musicmystery -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 3:51:36 PM)

Yes.

A claim is supported/disputed by evidence, a matter of fact. An opinion is a matter of personal feeling, outside of logic. Hardly interchangeable.

Further, you are mixing points. If you want to argue what the role of the Secretary of State should be, fine--although history has presented quite a range, so you've your work cut out for you. If you are claiming Sen. Clinton would be working outside of those guidelines, make your case. If you're arguing the U.S. should stay home and not police the world, that's a separate argument, separate from Clinton.

Pick a point. Support it.

Or, if you'd like to express an opinion, likewise clearly say so, and move on.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 3:53:02 PM)

You have not rebutted my opinion.  




Musicmystery -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 3:55:21 PM)

I don't like soda. Refute my opinion.

You are being silly. Supported positions may be refuted. Opinions are not logical constructions.

The answer to your "question" is simple: Will a Secretary of State Clinton be a whatever? If the President says so, yes---and if she doesn't, she'll be replaced, just as many Secretaries of State have been replaced before.

Non-issue. And not a matter of opinion.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 4:01:04 PM)

What are the interests of the US?
 
When you share common values with people you find they are easier to get along with and less threatening. You can stay isolated with your ideal society that welcomes women’s rights and hope those women haters in other parts of the world don’t come knocking on your door because your society is so abhorrent to them, if you like. That would be your approach up until now, so where do we go next?




painpup -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 4:01:22 PM)

i guess the voting public havn't had enough of the CARPET BAGGER yeccccccccccch boy what a future ahead looks bleak very BLECK




Musicmystery -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 4:04:47 PM)

Because?




painpup -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 4:09:09 PM)

You've got to be kidding me alil back scratching going on there You do me i'll do for You the outcome is this a honest politician wouldn't last 4hrs let alone 4to 8 Yrs  i've always been in favor of term limts too




rulemylife -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 4:11:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Because?


You mean you understood that?

Because I sure could use a translation.




Musicmystery -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 4:11:39 PM)

Ah. A logical, pertinent argument specific to the point.

[8|]

You could just copy this as a reply to dozens of threads.

Easier than thinking, anyway.

[rule--translation: "I think what I think and I'm just right and I don't need no reasons why can't you stupid people see that?!"]




painpup -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 4:18:09 PM)

certainly and for any one who forgot The clinton Years gave us NAFTA and where did that get us was it ahead or behinde also they had a another agenda as well when Gore came up to bat lets have a lil bit more gun control hence a good reason for why Bush Won




Naga -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 4:21:53 PM)

The Clintons always have an agenda, I don't think this is a mystery to anyone. Whether it was selling nuclear secrets to the Chinese or ignoring our military, it was always about "them." That certainly hasn't changed.

And if gun control was a major issue, Obama would not have been elected. He has already promised to infringe our rights there in a major way. If it is as big of an issue as you say it is, it will probably cost him a second term.




rulemylife -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 4:26:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga

The Clintons always have an agenda, I don't think this is a mystery to anyone. Whether it was selling nuclear secrets to the Chinese or ignoring our military, it was always about "them." That certainly hasn't changed




They sold our nuclear secrets to the Chinese?




painpup -> RE: Will Secretary Clinton Be an Advocate for Women Worldwide? (11/22/2008 4:28:05 PM)

gun control was a statement as for gun sales going up and out the roof  its not about or for the reason the current Presdent elect its about keeping whats Yours if said shit hits the fan but i digress it was about Mz Secretatary Clinton being a advocate for Woman world wide being from Ny orginally i could never Stand the woman or Her B/S i thought that She was allowed to move to NY so She could win senate seat and that was totally wrong




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