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The new minority - 11/23/2008 4:22:14 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		I got thinking about this when reading MzMias post on racism etc. I remember when my father was getting divorced there was a list of minority groups, women, ethnic minority, disabled, gay the only group that wasnt represented was white middle class hetrosexual able bodied men. It got me thinking that the time, surely their lack of representation among minorities actually makes them a minority?

I do think that we can fall on these things as get out clauses, 'he didnt employ me because im a woman' etc as a way to prevent ourselves taking responsibility. i am not saying that there isnt bigotry of course there is, but surely leaving out that group and assuming they dont face it is bigotry in itself? Just a thought

< Message edited by colouredin -- 11/23/2008 4:33:54 PM >

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 4:37:48 PM   
BbwCanaDomme


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

I got thinking about this when reading MzMias post on racism etc. I remember when my father was getting divorced there was a list of minority groups, women, ethnic minority, disabled, gay the only group that wasnt represented was white middle class hetrosexual able bodied men. It got me thinking that the time, surely their lack of representation among minorities actually makes them a minority?

I do think that we can fall on these things as get out clauses, 'he didnt employ me because im a woman' etc as a way to prevent ourselves taking responsibility. i am not saying that there isnt bigotry of course there is, but surely leaving out that group and assuming they dont face it is bigotry in itself? Just a thought


But see, the problem with that is that they aren't a minority. They make up the majority of your population. I'm sure in the past, somewhere,  some white middle class able bodied man experienced bigotry, but that doesn't make them a minority. That just means something shitty happened once.

< Message edited by BbwCanaDomme -- 11/23/2008 4:38:09 PM >

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 4:37:53 PM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		How about getting rid of this stupid pigeon holing idea of segregating people into groups. Why not just treat us all as people, regardless of our colour, ability, gender or sexual orientation. I do believe this thing about the seperate groups in anything must have representation is the very thing that leads to prejudice of different people.

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 4:45:01 PM   
BbwCanaDomme


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

How about getting rid of this stupid pigeon holing idea of segregating people into groups. Why not just treat us all as people, regardless of our colour, ability, gender or sexual orientation. I do believe this thing about the seperate groups in anything must have representation is the very thing that leads to prejudice of different people.


That's a great idea in theory, but in practice it doesn't work. Integration in North America is still a fairly new thing. Maybe in about 20-50 years organizations supporting the rights of individual groups of people won't be as necessary. It's the same idea as using the electoral vote to decide who wins the presidency instead of the popular vote.

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 5:18:11 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

I got thinking about this when reading MzMias post on racism etc. I remember when my father was getting divorced there was a list of minority groups, women, ethnic minority, disabled, gay the only group that wasnt represented was white middle class hetrosexual able bodied men. It got me thinking that the time, surely their lack of representation among minorities actually makes them a minority?

I do think that we can fall on these things as get out clauses, 'he didnt employ me because im a woman' etc as a way to prevent ourselves taking responsibility. i am not saying that there isnt bigotry of course there is, but surely leaving out that group and assuming they dont face it is bigotry in itself? Just a thought


Women as a group, are one of the most discriminated against peoples in America.

The lables are are a bit misleading,for sure.Women certainly aren`t in the minority,though they often get treated like 2nd class citizens.

As far as ending discrimination goes,we still have a long way to go.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/23/2008 5:19:55 PM >

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 5:21:05 PM   
JoyfulMistress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

How about getting rid of this stupid pigeon holing idea of segregating people into groups. Why not just treat us all as people, regardless of our colour, ability, gender or sexual orientation. I do believe this thing about the seperate groups in anything must have representation is the very thing that leads to prejudice of different people.

Aneirin,
I can see your point that would be so lovely sadly we do not live in a utopian society .. does that mean we can use that as the crutch and continue to slap labels on people and allow such labels to be a reason to dislike someone .. heavens no .. but even on this site we are using currently there are labels... switch,Dom/me,sub/slave,Bi,Straight,TG..etc... some labels help us even though in some ways they may hinder.. If someone is looking for a Bi,BBW,Mistress they can cue those key words in and poof they have a list of women who fit that bill.. but in the same breath that which made the search easier can also be used to pigeon hole and hate those that fit that description for whatever reason .. I know generations before me did not like certain people to do certain things for whatever reasons (sex,gender identity,sexual preference,color, even religious beliefs etc) .. but today that is changing perhaps not as fast as we wish but it IS changing .. it is so much harder in my opinion to change a closed mind than an open one. Perhaps what we should be striving for is open minds and hearts .. and with that hatred will fall to the waste side being cast off as if a fin for a foot in evolution


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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 5:25:40 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		Well, there are 2 separate issues here
#1 What constitutes being a minority?  
#2 Who has the best access to wealth and power?
 
One does not equal the other.

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 6:02:01 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Well, there are 2 separate issues here
#1 What constitutes being a minority?  
#2 Who has the best access to wealth and power?
 
One does not equal the other.


I certainly agree that in many area's White and Black people are
the minorities these days.
But! As Vendaval stated so well, one does not equal the other when
it comes to power and wealth. 

In a Generation, Minorities May Be the U.S. Majority - NYTimes.com

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 6:07:23 PM   
variation30


Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

But see, the problem with that is that they aren't a minority. They make up the majority of your population. I'm sure in the past, somewhere,  some white middle class able bodied man experienced bigotry, but that doesn't make them a minority. That just means something shitty happened once.


as far as I know, able-bodied middle class white males don't make up over half the population...


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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 6:37:57 PM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline 		minority "groups" are usually established to help people band together so they feel like their voices are being heard.
able bodied white middle class males don't generally have trouble doing that.

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 6:54:56 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I hate to be the way I am, but I am. This proves my point. This is not a Democracy, it is a Republic. If it were a true Democracy all the Whites could vote that all the Blacks simply have to leave. The opposite is also true.

All in all, the supreme court has shot down public referendums, and the one that is supposed to take effect in CA banning gay marriage is sure to get shot down. We may all bemoan the fact that they have shot down good things, but the thing is that is actually the job of a republican government.

T

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 10:17:16 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Well, if it's to my advantage financially I can always claim to be "Black" "as my ancient ancesters came from Africa." That's not a lie, right?
Then there's the trusty old "Celtic."
I once used that on a job form under "other" for the "Race" question and it worked! The lady bought it hook line and sinker!
"Yes, I'm part white but I belong to a "government recognised minority" called "Celtic." You know, like the Indians!"
All kinds of nasty stuff was done to the Irish in this country so I get my "get back" whenever I can.

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 10:23:40 PM   
BbwCanaDomme


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well, if it's to my advantage financially I can always claim to be "Black" "as my ancient ancesters came from Africa." That's not a lie, right?
Then there's the trusty old "Celtic."
I once used that on a job form under "other" for the "Race" question and it worked! The lady bought it hook line and sinker!
"Yes, I'm part white but I belong to a "government recognised minority" called "Celtic." You know, like the Indians!"
All kinds of nasty stuff was done to the Irish in this country so I get my "get back" whenever I can.


Haha I didn't know you can do that. I don't think it works as well in Canada.

Once I was pressured in an interview to check off the "native" box... I'm white, but people have always assumed I'm either native or hispanic. When I told them I was white, they said I could "Pass for native." I didn't check it and they didn't hire me.

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 10:31:39 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well, if it's to my advantage financially I can always claim to be "Black" "as my ancient ancesters came from Africa." That's not a lie, right?
Then there's the trusty old "Celtic."
I once used that on a job form under "other" for the "Race" question and it worked! The lady bought it hook line and sinker!
"Yes, I'm part white but I belong to a "government recognised minority" called "Celtic." You know, like the Indians!"
All kinds of nasty stuff was done to the Irish in this country so I get my "get back" whenever I can.


Haha I didn't know you can do that. I don't think it works as well in Canada.

Once I was pressured in an interview to check off the "native" box... I'm white, but people have always assumed I'm either native or hispanic. When I told them I was white, they said I could "Pass for native." I didn't check it and they didn't hire me.


Cannadomme, you can check whatever box you want!
If they try to give you a hard time about it then tell them to prove it.

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 10:33:59 PM   
BbwCanaDomme


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well, if it's to my advantage financially I can always claim to be "Black" "as my ancient ancesters came from Africa." That's not a lie, right?
Then there's the trusty old "Celtic."
I once used that on a job form under "other" for the "Race" question and it worked! The lady bought it hook line and sinker!
"Yes, I'm part white but I belong to a "government recognised minority" called "Celtic." You know, like the Indians!"
All kinds of nasty stuff was done to the Irish in this country so I get my "get back" whenever I can.


Haha I didn't know you can do that. I don't think it works as well in Canada.

Once I was pressured in an interview to check off the "native" box... I'm white, but people have always assumed I'm either native or hispanic. When I told them I was white, they said I could "Pass for native." I didn't check it and they didn't hire me.


Cannadomme, you can check whatever box you want!
If they try to give you a hard time about it then tell them to prove it.


Haha I just opt to not click any boxes. I want to know I'm getting a job because I'm the most qualified person for it, I don't want to give excuses to people to hire/not hire me. That being said, I do understand why those programs are in place. Being from a primarily white city, and being mildly "ethnic" looking, I know people can be assholes about that kind of thing.

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 10:34:59 PM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline 		When I think of "minority" I also think of "victim." When I consider who has been, and not been, granted victim status I realize that all groups I can think of except white males have been granted that status. So every one else is a victim in one way or another but white males, which leaves white males in the role of perpetrator.

We are looked at as being guilty by virtue of anatomy and pigmentation.

Yep, seems like a different form of bias, and one few like to be made aware of.

Uncle Nasty  (a victim of society having labled me a perpetrator)

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RE: The new minority - 11/23/2008 11:52:23 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RainydayNE

minority "groups" are usually established to help people band together so they feel like their voices are being heard.
able bodied white middle class males don't generally have trouble doing that.


I sometimes feel that we do have trouble hearing them, i think often it does come down to who shouts the loudest. In England I think that there is a problem with political correctness, we are all so terrified of being called prejudice we moderate everything we say, that to me isnt equality because often it becomes that the minority groups are favoured. Quota filling hasnt helped the situation either.

I think the problem with banding together as a group is that it just reconstitues them as another type of sperate rather than integrations. Also a lot of the time these minority groups arent actually campaigning for equality, they want to be more than equal.

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 2:27:21 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		As a middle aged WASP, I have never felt as though I was discriminated against based on color, religion etc. If you look around, we still pretty well control things as a group. Look at the Board Rooms of major corporations, the CEOs, the heads of Government. Women out number us but there is still a large number of women filling what are considered "women's professions", and "traditional roles". Now that is qualified with the fact that I have never applied for certain types of jobs. Not once have I applied to a state, municipal or the federal government for a job or assistance etc. I do not feel put upon by being white, I don't see myself as a victim nor do I see myself as any form of a minority....as a group...Old White Guys still Rule the world for good or ill.

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 5:13:14 AM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

as a group...Old White Guys still Rule the world for good or ill.


exactly

and in my experience nobody's really all that concerned with "moderating" what they say. people just like to say that they do it. =p
of course maybe that has to do with where i grew up.

sure there are some extreme minority groups, just like there are extreme ANYTHING groups. i think the groups themselves do more good than bad, though. (well... SOME of them. i was really ticked off at the NAACP for supporting an idiot like michael vick)

and it's very easy to talk about "integration" and how great it is when you don't really have to worry about it. it's always been my experience that no matter how good i am, even in the cases where i'm BETTER, i'm still going to be passed over because people don't like that i have cells in my skin that make a little bit more melanin than theirs.

like it or not, those things aren't going to go away until the world at large is just no longer prejudiced. and with human beings in the picture, that will never ever happen.

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RE: The new minority - 11/24/2008 5:51:12 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		society ..well the grid wants to un-testosterone the males.

this may have a positive benefit- but it also has negative ones as well.   there are hormones in milk- and other foods.  so the sperm count has been going down.  is this ntural evolution or a sloppy food supply?

the idea is to get along with everybody.   i realize that the US has a dark past-  i also know that most every country has a quesionable past......

the white/anglo is fading in numbers as a %.   there will be beneifts, and per haps some non benefits.    I agree with uncle- on not wanting to be a victem...

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