Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (Full Version)

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undergroundsea -> Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/24/2008 9:01:26 PM)

Here is a post from the Am I Faithful or Stupid? thread ( http://www.collarchat.com/m_2298222/mpage_4/tm.htm )which I am recreating here for a more focused discussion under a subject line that is more descriptive.

This thread brings up some good questions:

1) What should a domme do if a sub has identified limits and she wishes to expand his limits?

2) How should a sub object to approach towards a limit, or otherwise specify a limit without disrupting the D/s space?

3) What should a domme do if she sees potential for an activity during the middle of a scene which has not been previously discussed?

Cheers,

Sea



undergroundsea -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/24/2008 9:03:49 PM)

I am going to take a shot at the first question.

I think that it is a good idea to understand the reason behind limits when they are being discussed.

For instance, I describe feminization as a soft limit. It does not carry appeal for me and I usually skip femdom parties where the women are going to feminize the men. To me, the female image and female attire has a revered nature to it. Since I admire the female image and my attraction is directed towards women, the thought of a man dressing in a woman's clothing creates a conflict as if it is adultering the image for me. Based on this reasoning, one can gather that going past this limit would not create a strong negative emotional reaction.

However, there are other limits that stem from my wish to preserve my health, and I describe as limits activities that I think might have adverse health effects in the long term. An attempt to expand such a limit would create a strong negative emotional reaction.

Thus, I think understanding why a limit is a limit can help identify those that are more suitable for expanding limits.

If a domme wishes to expand a limit and it is one that might draw an adverse emotional response, I think it would be safer to bring up the limit as one for expansion and establish agreement to try to expand that limit at some specified or unspecified time. With that consent explicitly had, I think it is fair game to use the tendency of a sub to wish to please while in subspace or otherwise use powers of seduction to go past this limit. I think this approach is more conducive towards preserving trust and avoiding resentment.

I welcome additional perspectives from other submissives and dominants who wish to share experiences of successfully going through such a situation, or offer general insights.

Cheers,

Sea



DelilahDeb -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/25/2008 12:23:33 AM)

Such a thoughtful post. Most of my limits are not going to arise during a scene; they get covered in negotiations. The limits of my subs differ, and for different reasons. A sub whose limit includes not leaving marked (bruised), him I won't extend by trying to bruise him. But I will find ways to give him enough intensity that he is surprised he didn't bruise! (And very grateful he's been, too…on both counts.) Sometimes my limits get lightly poked outside of a scene, for instance when a sub sends me a link to photo of some extreme practice. (A well-established sub, that is, who is valued, and not just some wanker employing an attention-getting device.) Some such photos are just because he surfs this stuff, and wants to say—wow, look at those nutters. And some may be a way for him to sound me out as to possible interests without crossing a boundary or seeming to push.

I have, on occasion, been moved to activities somewhat beyond those that fall within our negotiated limits. And I generally recall myself sufficiently to ask permission (I may be in charge, but that doesn't give me the right to break my word) first. And if he's already too subspaced out to give informed consent, then I hold that thought for another play date.

Interesting question, though.

Lady Delilah Deb



FullfigRIMAAM1 -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/25/2008 1:26:29 AM)

quote:

1) What should a domme do if a sub has identified limits and she wishes to expand his limits?
The domme should decide how important this particular limit is to her, and whether adherence to it would keep her disatisfied.   If it is a dealbreaker for either party, I would imagine a lot of conversation needs to take place before dating or playing should take place.   If on the other hand he is simply a play partner, easy enough to agree to disagree on certain things.

quote:

2) How should a sub object to approach towards a limit, or otherwise specify a limit without disrupting the D/s space?
If the sub is not gagged, he/she should say "please maam, don't make me do  this at this time."  This of course would be only acceptable when he/she means what he says, not one who says no, hoping she'll push harder.    I have dated a boy with lots of limits that I did push, but we discussed them after we met, developed some "she's not going to harm me trust", and at that point felt it safe to push;   still I don't push if his body is actively resisting me.   I don't enjoy myself if he is hating my touch/activity.

quote:

3) What should a domme do if she sees potential for an activity during the middle of a scene which has not been previously discussed?
This would depend on the activity.   There are some I feel are less emotionally damaging than others.  Some I would start and observe his acceptance/feeling about it, some I would never without prior to scene discussion (like introducing a 3rd person).     M



ShaktiSama -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/25/2008 11:04:37 AM)

Limits, when and how to challenge them, and whether both parties can live with them--something to be discussed when a scene is NOT in progress, for the most part. I also distinguish sharply between limits that are directly related to sexual/personal identity and self-esteem and those that are about physical sensations or acts.

Having sex with a person the same sex, roleplaying that has to do with age, race, gender roles, animal identity, etc.--those are obviously identity issues. Limits involving identity are sometimes a lot more damaging to break or bend than those that are simply about a physical act, like whether you enjoy being spanked in particular.





PeonForHer -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/25/2008 11:35:05 AM)

Sea, I must admit, those questions would assume, in practice, quite a lot of self-understanding in the sub concerned.  If  he or she strikes the dominant as pretty mature and assertive about his/her limits, that's one thing.  But if not, then, IMO, any question of 'expanding the sub's limits' should happen entirely outside of any sexual activity.  Your question 3), I think, just should barely happen at all.    



sleuthingsub -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/25/2008 12:28:14 PM)

1) Talk about it extensively.  Perhaps explaining why she would like to overcome that particular limit, and offering reassurance.  Understanding why it's a limit is key if the domme wants to convince the sub to do it.  A persuasive argument combined with previously earning his trust is pretty much all she could do.  It's also easier to introduce something in small parts than all at once.

2) Perhaps some sort of signal for "slow down"?  I think if it's a true limit that the sub doesn't want to do, it'll become pretty apparent though.

3) Perhaps ease gently towards it, and gauge the reaction it gets.  Again, I think it's situational dependent though.

Hopefully by the time limits are being pushed and expanded, the sub and domme will have developed a close and trusting relationship.  I think that's key.

Anyway, interesting post.  Thanks.



AlexandraLynch -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/25/2008 7:55:45 PM)

I personally am very uncomfortable with expanding limits during a scene. There's a type of expansion I'll do; if we are playing with the bag o' clothespins, I'll put them in the usual spots and, if I think he is doing well, I'll add a few in new locations and see how he does with that.

But I think talking about limits while one or both persons are either in subspace or domspace is about as dangerous as negotiating vanilla sexual activity while one or both parties are drunk or high. And I avoid it. Of course, mileage may vary, and my way is not the only way out there.



AlexandraLynch -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/25/2008 7:59:50 PM)

You're quite right.

Your statement made me realize that I assume part of my function as a dominant is to lead a submissive to greater self-understanding of his own needs, wants, and desires. Not as a primary function. It's more like repainting a room in a house. The corners and under things are going to get cleaned out in the process, because of the nature of the process. So one might as well plan that one needs a box to stick the various and sundry things found in and a dustpan and broom. I certainly prefer planning to being surprised by it, especially if I can see it coming.




SlaveBlutarsky -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/25/2008 9:22:55 PM)


quote:

1) What should a domme do if a sub has identified limits and she wishes to expand his limits?


I would like her to feel comfortable expanding them if she would like. I have very few hard limits, so I'm a big lump of silly putty for her to stretch, mold and play with as much as she'd like.

Any woman I submit to in a serious manner I would trust and therefore know that her wishing to expand my limist would be done in a healthy manner that benefits both of us.

quote:


2) How should a sub object to approach towards a limit, or otherwise specify a limit without disrupting the D/s space?

Safeword? I've never run into this, so I don't know. againm it goes back to the fact that the level of trust achieved allows me to place the trust in someone so that I've never had to object during the space.

The only time I've ever come close to this is when a former Domme was buying latex gloves and alcohol at the supermarket. She knew I hated (like really really hate) needles and she loved them. She even gave me one to let me know what was in store for me. She never used it or them on me, but it's something we discussed a great deal and I warned her I would probable pass out of do something similarly goofy.

quote:

3) What should a domme do if she sees potential for an activity during the middle of a scene which has not been previously discussed?


In my relationship, do it, using her best judgement on how she felt I would handle it.

I guess for me, when I submit to someone, I submit to someone. I'm not trying to say that I'm SuperSub and should be wearing an S on my chest, but part of the submission to me is the explicit giving over of myself and developing the trust between the two of us.



MsStarlett -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/26/2008 4:14:35 AM)

Ok... This really needs more thought... but I do want to get this in before I'm off for the Holidays...

In all areas mentioned, I'm very big on talking about things before doing them.    Sometimes, I know my boys think I talk things to death... but I really want to be SURE that everyone is straight on how they feel about things.  I've had boys that weren't into pain or were terrified of CBT.  The trick is to just ease them into it... watching carefully and back off if they seem to be truely uncomfortable.  Always allow someone to 'safe word out' without embarrassment.  My 'safe word' has always been my real name.  It makes life so much easier for everyone if they can feel better simply asking "Please, S. Don't."



MadameMarque -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/27/2008 7:04:21 AM)

If someone has already indicated a limit, the middle of a scene is no time to renegotiate that, as a person is in no state of mind to make those judgment calls for themselves.  They may be too vulnerable, emotionally and physically, too high (sometimes, people are actually unable to form thoughts or words), too overwhelmed, too intimidated, too afraid of disappointing the dominant.  They may feel they've failed, if they can't take it.  Many reasons this is not the time to suddenly spring on them, a violation of their limits.

Doing something that hasn't specifically been discussed, beforehand, is different, to me, than violated a known limit.  Actually, it's the opposite, because if you know the limit, then it's been discussed or communicated in some way.  I do things that haven't been discussed beforehand, during most of any given scene.  I like variety.

However, have some common human sense!  In the thread you've referenced, a submissive had his first scene with a mistress he'd just met, and she brought in a third person the submissive had never met or heard about, in the middle of the scene, without the submissive's foreknowledge or consent.  Even further, she wanted the straight male submissive to have sexual contact with this new person, also male.  There are activities that you can reasonably expect should, ethically, be broached beforehand, with the submissive.

Pushing limits suggests something different, to me.  There is "consensual nonconsensuality."  Examples would be for the submissive to genuinely try to escape or genuinely want the dominant to stop, in the moment, but with the clear understanding between you, that they want to experience that.  Much more gentle would be "expanding" limits.  I like for the person to realize they want more.  They may have to admit that, to get it from me.

It is certainly a matter of judgment - what is the level of trust between you?  How well do you know each other, to gage how far to go and gage the other person's reactions?  What is the level of risk that the submissive is willing to take?  Or even, desires?


Any earnest indication to me that a submissive is in trouble (that we've reached a limit, or they feel we're going there) is fine with me.  It's not going to disrupt the dominant-submissive dynamic.  It's part of the intimacy of the dynamic!  What would be disruptive would be an attitude of anger or resentment, if they act as if I should have known.  But then, I wouldn't knowingly violate a person's limits, in the middle of a scene.



undergroundsea -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/29/2008 6:06:28 PM)

Thank you for all the comments.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1
quote:

2) How should a sub object to approach towards a limit, or otherwise specify a limit without disrupting the D/s space?


If the sub is not gagged, he/she should say "please maam, don't make me do  this at this time." 


I agree. I think such a statement, at least at first, should be made politely and in a way so as to preserve the power dynamic versus a forceful "stop it!" To the above, I might add, "It is conflicting with a boundary and I wonder if we might first talk about it at an appropriate time."

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleuthingsub
2) Perhaps some sort of signal for "slow down"?  I think if it's a true limit that the sub doesn't want to do, it'll become pretty apparent though.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveBlutarsky
quote:


2) How should a sub object to approach towards a limit, or otherwise specify a limit without disrupting the D/s space?

Safeword?


Of course! You are absolutely right and I am surprised mention of safeword had not come up before in the previous thread.

While I see value in safewords and have often posted to support their use, I tend to rely on regular words, which is the thought behind my statement earlier in this post in response to FullfigRIMAAM1.

Cheers,

Sea



LadyConstanze -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/29/2008 6:34:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

1) What should a domme do if a sub has identified limits and she wishes to expand his limits?
The domme should decide how important this particular limit is to her, and whether adherence to it would keep her disatisfied.   If it is a dealbreaker for either party, I would imagine a lot of conversation needs to take place before dating or playing should take place.   If on the other hand he is simply a play partner, easy enough to agree to disagree on certain things.

quote:

2) How should a sub object to approach towards a limit, or otherwise specify a limit without disrupting the D/s space?
If the sub is not gagged, he/she should say "please maam, don't make me do  this at this time."  This of course would be only acceptable when he/she means what he says, not one who says no, hoping she'll push harder.    I have dated a boy with lots of limits that I did push, but we discussed them after we met, developed some "she's not going to harm me trust", and at that point felt it safe to push;   still I don't push if his body is actively resisting me.   I don't enjoy myself if he is hating my touch/activity.

quote:

3) What should a domme do if she sees potential for an activity during the middle of a scene which has not been previously discussed?
This would depend on the activity.   There are some I feel are less emotionally damaging than others.  Some I would start and observe his acceptance/feeling about it, some I would never without prior to scene discussion (like introducing a 3rd person).     M



I pretty much agree with all that, as for 2) that is why I am absolutely for safewords we all hope we won't need them but like an airbag they are there to avoid injuries.

3) Slowly and again with safewords



undergroundsea -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/29/2008 6:47:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameMarque

If someone has already indicated a limit, the middle of a scene is no time to renegotiate that, as a person is in no state of mind to make those judgment calls for themselves. 

<snip>

Doing something that hasn't specifically been discussed, beforehand, is different, to me, than violated a known limit.


I agree. And the reason for question 3 is that I think it is entirely possible to encounter an activity that has not yet been discussed. I give two examples of what might lead to such an occurrence.

One scenario that leads to such a situation is my personal style towards D/s. Generally, much of my play (service) has not needed detailed negotiations from the outset and things have evolved organically. I generally do not engage in detailed negotiations from the beginning beyond stating what I consider limits, and what are the underlying fundamentals behind my interests and limits. My reason for this approach is to avoid spelling out what will happen in a scene both for sake of enjoying the unexpected, the mutual exploration and the associated reactions upon finding a button, and for wishing to see what the domme would want to do outside the specified boundaries.

Also, for me  negotiations are dynamic and often resume after the play to discuss what was great and what was not so great. Lately, I have been giving greater emphasis to negotiation up front. Even now, this emphasis is more towards broader issues (relationship expectations, what are things that created discomfort in prior scenarios, needs for space and intimacy, how to approach a discussion if something is not going well) that lean towards relationship and communication matters than towards specific BDSM activities. Thus, in this style I am likely to encounter a situation that has not been explicity discussed.

Another scenario that can lead to a need to discuss an activity that has not been discussed before--even if it is between individuals who practice detailed negotations upfront--is that the activity simply did not come up in negotiation.

While it may be a safe policy to not negotiate a new activity during a scene, I think the matter is a bit gray to define this policy as an absolute one. And having an absolute policy of this nature might undermine creativity and those powerful moments that can be had while exploring areas of D/s play by virtue of creativity or novelty.

So what to do if play is going well and an activity appeals to a domme which has not been discussed before?

I think it becomes a question of judgment; (1) how well do the two know each other, (2) how experienced is the submissive and how skilled is the domme at reading body reactions, (3) how edgy is the activity, (4) do other activities that have been discussed or done provide information about whether or not it would a good idea to approach this activity during this scene, more.

As an example for point 3, I can imagine a scenario at a play party where flirting smoothly transitions to a mild scene with a sub at his first play party. And that scene can come to a point that can raise the question about nudity with others around, a potential point to cover while discussing limits. By this time, the sub is likely in a submissive mindspace. However, this activity is not so edgy, especially if one has come to a play party of this type. I think in this example, it is reasonable for the domme to ask him how he feels about nudity at a party than to stop the moment.

As an example for point 4, suppose a domme and a sub are engaged in a scene. An idea for a type of faceplay comes to her that the two have not discussed before. However, the two have engaged in other forms of faceplay. In such a scenario, my suggestion would be to test the water by hinting the activity in some way and looking for a response--do the eyes widen with anticipation, is it a neutral response, or is it a look of disgust or revulsion? Points 1 and 2 become relevant here.

Cheers,

Sea



GigglingGoddess -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/30/2008 11:07:40 AM)

Because I'm a rather new domme, I doubt I'll be pushing many limits in the near future.  My boyfriend and I have similar limits and desires, and I'm more likely to avoid an acceptable activity of his than I am to try an unacceptable one.  However, it's possible I might get an idea during a scene for an activity we haven't discussed yet.  Most likely I'll ignore the idea, stick to what I know, and bring it up later.  Just in case, though, in addition to a safe word, we came up with a slow-down word.  While the safe word would completely stop play, a signal to slow down would just let me know I should stop the current activity or lower the intensity, without ending the scene.

As far as previously discussed limits, I don't think they should be negotiated during a scene.  The sub might not be in the right mind to give informed consent, and the activity could have some unintended effects.  One thing that might be acceptable, however, is discussing and agreeing before a scene to push a limit during the scene.  A domme might really like an activity that is a soft limit for the sub.  They might negotiate to approach that limit during the scene, and the sub will have a word or signal they can use to tell the domme they aren't comfortable with it.  Aftercare would be essential, but if the scene went smoothly without the word being used, then a new activity has been added to that couple's repertoire, which is always a good thing.



PeonForHer -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/30/2008 11:13:24 AM)

Just in case, though, in addition to a safe word, we came up with a slow-down word.  While the safe word would completely stop play, a signal to slow down would just let me know I should stop the current activity or lower the intensity, without ending the scene.

Excellent.  I'd be happy with that: the verbal equivalents of red and amber respectively.  I'd never thought of a 'slow down word' idea before.  I wouldn't like a situation where a domina thought she couldn't experiment or push limits in any way at all.



AAkasha -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/30/2008 11:39:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Just in case, though, in addition to a safe word, we came up with a slow-down word.  While the safe word would completely stop play, a signal to slow down would just let me know I should stop the current activity or lower the intensity, without ending the scene.

Excellent.  I'd be happy with that: the verbal equivalents of red and amber respectively.  I'd never thought of a 'slow down word' idea before.  I wouldn't like a situation where a domina thought she couldn't experiment or push limits in any way at all.


There is always good, old-fashioned blunt communication.  The use of code words is often positioned as the end-all, be-all of BDSM safety when in reality their effectiveness is mostly when you are roleplaying and "no, stop, this is hurting me," is part of the game.   Unless a submissive is playing an elaborate role where resistance, fear, uncertainty is part of the game, there's no reason he can't say, "You know what..this idea was really turning me on, but right now, I'm just not so sure..." and then they can talk about it.

I also think having special "words" is more likely to make a sub not want to use those words, for fear of being a failure or letting her down, or ruining her momentum or fun.  Unless it's between relative strangers (not the case obviously in these examples) for example at a public party, or two pain players who like to just get in the zone and direct the intensity of blows with codes, roleplaying and faking restistance are the only reasons I think a couple should use code instead of black and white discussion of what they are feeling.  You are inviting all kinds of drama and miscommunication if you take very, very comlicated emotions and feelings and trying to stop and start traffic based on a "code."

The more intense, the more edgy, the more emotional and personal the play, the more there is a need for lots of words to try to stay on track.  Not just "yellow" because the sub feels *uncomfortable*.  Trust me, there's a LOT of places you can go with "uncomfortable" or "slow down," and some involve heating it up - quickly -  and others involve STOPPING immediately -- discussion and open free flowing talk about it is the way to figure that out, in my experience.

Some people put so much protocol into bdsm they literally suck the passion and life right out of it, instead of talking things through. A couple who is well into any kind of emotional edge-play, unless they are reckless morons, have talked long and deep about a wide variety of things, and also have a style of commununication, both verbal and NON verbal, to cue each other.  The fact that some people think lots of rules and protocols and codes can navigate these dangerous areas boggles me.  Those in a serious, intense relationship know that you can tell more by the way your partner breathes or says your name to get insight into their mind, and you've ALREADY presumably gone to dark places in his/her head since you have developed trust and intimacy to get where you are at that moment; if at that point you are relying on codes and rules, god help you.  Or, alternatively,  how stifled and dry.

If a couple is already in dangerous mine fields related to these areas yet they do not know each other well enough to read each other, that's the problem. No number of code words, code signals, smoke signals or sign language will save them from fucking each other up at some point.  The solution?  Get to know someone, patiently, thoroughly and intensely before you start busting through limits.

Akasha



LadyPact -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/30/2008 12:38:32 PM)


I'm going to answer this in the perspective it was written.  By which, I mean that I am answering from the mindset of Domme and sub, not Top and bottom.  In a Top/bottom scenario, I don't push limits.  I don't have enough communication and background information to know why they are limits or where that person is in accepting an activity that hasn't been discussed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
1) What should a domme do if a sub has identified limits and she wishes to expand his limits?

This is actually a very broad question.  What kind of limit are we talking about here?  How much discussion of said limit has been had prior?  Why is it a limit?  

Let's take something to use as an example.  I'm going to use face slapping since that's one that some have as a limit for various reasons.  Some have it as a hard limit because for them, it brings back terrible things from childhood and would put them in a very bad mental state.  Others have it as a limit because they do not know how they will react and have honest concerns that they might strike back.    In the first reasoning for having it as a hard limit, I'd probably never want to push it unless the submissive specifically came to Me and asked for the activity.  In the second, I might want to introduce it slowly, such as a tap on the face to gage the reaction.  I wouldn't go into a full on slap in the face.  There would be that tap during the scene and the subject would be discussed at a later time to see how the submissive processed the event. 

quote:

2) How should a sub object to approach towards a limit, or otherwise specify a limit without disrupting the D/s space?

It would be My opinion that there are some things more important than the D/s space during a scene.  If it comes to that, the sub should raise the objection.  As a Dominant, I wouldn't hold it against a sub who wasn't ready to push a limit.  I would have to say that this goes back to the submissive ensuring the integrity and character of the Domme that the sub has chosen to serve.  If you're playing with someone who isn't going to respect your limits during a scene, you've chosen poorly.

quote:

3) What should a domme do if she sees potential for an activity during the middle of a scene which has not been previously discussed?

Cheers,

Sea

If it hasn't been discussed at all, thank you, but I'll pass for the moment.  Just because an idea strikes My fancy at the moment, it's not something that I think I'd feel had to be done at that exact moment.  It's not like it will be the only time the opportunity will present itself.  We are talking about Domme and sub here.  There are going to be other future times where we're going to be involved in play.  I can be a patient woman when I have to be.  I waited eighteen months to get clip's cherry in needle play.  I can wait for other thing's too.

Excellent questions and coversation as always, sea.  I hope you are well.



GigglingGoddess -> RE: Expanding Limits and Stating Boundaries During a Scene (11/30/2008 1:19:28 PM)

I don't think safewords or slow-down words indicate that a relationship isn't intimate enough, nor do I think they constitute excessive protocol.  My boyfriend and I are keenly aware of each other's emotions.  In all honesty, if during a scene he said, "That hurts too much, please slow down," I would probably heed his wishes and slow down.  But saying this bluntly might make him feel weak.  A slow-down word would communicate the same thing to me directly without him having to say "weak-sounding" words and without stopping the scene.  If he said the word, I'd probably initiate some communication to make sure the intensity or activity I switched to was ok.  Obviously we'd discuss everything afterward, but we wouldn't have to end the scene right there if he and I didn't want it to end.  I could end it if I was genuinely concerned, and he could end it with the safeword. 

However, this doesn't mean I don't know how to judge his well-being by his breathing, voice, body language, etc.  It's highly unlikely that I'd make him want to end a scene, and he trusts me not to do so, but on the off-chance, I belive would be able to tell if something was wrong, even if he wasn't using the safeword, just as I am able to tell when he's fine or truly enjoying something.  But seeing him act genuinely distressed would probably freak me out and get me really worried.  A slow-down word would be less likely to freak me out if I was going a little too hard. Also, if a domme liked to see her sub act distressed when he may not be, code words would be their best way of communicating.

Obviously, everyone has their own ways of communicating during a scene, and the most important thing is that it is agreed on by all parties.  I think it is best not to just rely on one form or another, such as only body language or only words.  In party situations, code words might be the only option since those people don't know each other well.  But like you said, Akasha, that's not a good place to be pushing limits.  In intimate settings, however, especially when roleplay is involved, code words can still be important, despite how well the people know each other. 



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