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Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/27/2008 3:06:02 PM   
Daes


Posts: 246
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
Status: offline 		I wanted to get thoughts and opinions. We all have those few bad apples of the community, abusive men who think women are supposed to serve men, but not all too often do we hear about women abusing men, and specifically in this topic I wanted to discuss dominant women that abuse submissive men.

I was approached several months ago by a male sub. The deeper we got into our conversation, the more it became clear that not only was he unhappy in his relationship but that he was absolutely terrified of his mistress and believed that he could not leave her or she would act upon threats that she had made against him. She tortures him, sometimes to the point of drawing blood. This was a woman that would hold gardening shears to his balls and tell him that she was going to cut them off if he said a word. Now I am still skeptical that someone would Actually cut them off, however, he was utterly convinced that it was a real possibility. The amount of psychological trauma here is enough to damage his overall opinions of women in general, he's afraid of most women and worried that they will take advantage of him.

Not only was this woman in the same building that he worked in, she also had keys to his house. I advised him to change the locks, find a new job, and get a restraining order. He was very reluctant, he didn't believe the police would help him, much less believe him, and he was afraid that the consequences would be Worse if he did anything at all. He wanted to wait until she released him in a year's time. I havent heard from him since. So I can only hope that he is doing better.

The mistress in question has a profile here on collarme, and quite frankly when I take in his experiences with her in context with her profile, she comes off like a man-hating psycho.

I tried looking online to see if there was someway I could help him. After doing some research I realized that men in these kinds of situations don't have too many resources or people to turn to, I read all kinds of horror stories: men who were abused by their wives (with marble rolling pics, pans, baseball bats) and they themselves arrested when they called the police on their wives, husbands losing custody of children to abusive women, lawyers laughing or just staring at their client's stories and advising not to sue or the case could be turned against them... And only two months ago did California rule that it was illegal for shelters to deny services to abused men.

It made me wonder how many other guys were like the one that spoke to me, feeling trapped in a relationship, unable to leave their Domme out of fear.

As a woman, it is easy. You say a man hit you, the cops will come immediately and he will be arrested. But as a man, (at least from the research I have done) I have a hard time believing he would get the same assistance.

Anyone else have any experiences dealing with a similar situation? Do you leave it as is even if it could mean Serious harm to the sub? Are there any resources out there I might have missed that could help someone else in this situation?

< Message edited by Daes -- 11/27/2008 3:11:46 PM >

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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/27/2008 3:28:28 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Police can be prejudiced, sure; but they can also be puzzled by things that don't conform to what they think is logical and commonsense behaviour, Daes.  Thus, on the one hand, I hear that some 20% of abuse cases are from a woman directed at a man and I can entirely believe that the UK police, anyway, don't take such cases of abuse nearly as seriously as they should. 

Yet, on the other hand, part of the problem lies in how they try to go about getting at the truth.  I know what would go through my father's mind (he's a retired London copper).  Questions like, "Why doesn't he change the locks?"  "Why's he still hanging around her when she's done something like threatening him with gardening shears?  "How, physically, did he get into the position where she was able to threaten him like that the first place?  Was he tied up?  If so, why did he let her tie him up, knowing how much of a psycho she was?"

As I understand it, it's the attrition of one's confidence, the continuous trickle of demoralisation and the resulting massive loss of self belief and self worth, that prevents abused women from 'escaping' their abuser.  I can only assume it's the same for abused men.  What's needed is a support network and in particular an advocacy scheme - people, in particular, who are able to liaise between the abused person and the legal authorities.  From what I've seen, those two latter sorts of people barely speak the same language.   

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 11/27/2008 3:30:28 PM >

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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/27/2008 3:57:00 PM   
MistressSassy66


Posts: 1675
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		I can imagine that a man would feel the same way
a woman would if hes being threatened.
I can also imagine that it would be harder to come forward.
Just like with women if he doesnt want help,nothing you
do will matter.They have to be ready to make the break.
Its not easy to get up the courage to fight back against
an abuser(any type of abuser),it can be scary and full
of 'what ifs'.What if I leave and they find me.What if
I cant make on my own.An abuser takes away all self esteem.
They take the soul of their victim and leave an empty shell
that can take a life time to fill back up.

I tell slave janet jokingly that she can never leave.
That is not the case though,if she were to become
unhappy being here I would release her,I'm not into
holding someone against their will.

It seems like you have done all you can.
I wish your friend luck and strength.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/27/2008 7:27:49 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daes

As a woman, it is easy. You say a man hit you, the cops will come immediately and he will be arrested. But as a man, (at least from the research I have done) I have a hard time believing he would get the same assistance.

Anyone else have any experiences dealing with a similar situation? Do you leave it as is even if it could mean Serious harm to the sub? Are there any resources out there I might have missed that could help someone else in this situation?


It isn't quite this easy as a woman. You have a lot of people still who believe that if she just behaved better, or dressed more modestly or wasn't such a nag, etc., but it is easier for women and girls to tell if they are educated early on that they have the right to be treated with respect and the right to get help if they aren't.

Boys are raised differently. Like girls they are also taught it is their fault if something bad happens to them but it happens because they aren't strong enough or masculine enough or man enough to have prevented it. The expectation is that they can take care of themselves not by catering to another person but by "being a man". Again this seems to be changing as more boys are being raised to more freely express their feelings and that it is ok to be vulnerable.

These are major cultural changes in the USA and will not change in one or two generations I think.

Anyway, yes, it is much harder to get help if you are an abused man or boy. The resources are much fewer and the stigma is different. The odds are if you try to get into a group therapy situation, often helpful for women and also less expensive, you will be turned away simply because the group is primarily women who have been harmed by men and your presence would only increase their anxieties. So you are left with private therapy or the rare men's group. But what do you do if your abuser was a man?

I saw this when I was in college at least three times and I worked to open up our rape awareness week we had to discussing men's issues as survivors too. This is probably one of the things that led me to study men's gender and sexuality in the ancient world as well as women's. It's also one of those things in my life I can say I am very proud of.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Daes)
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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/27/2008 8:27:26 PM   
youngsubgeoff


Posts: 900
Joined: 9/25/2007
From: The Asylum
Status: offline 		I was abused by my first mistress. I was beaten repeatedly, often to the verge of unconsciousness or being bloodied, whored out to her friends for money, raped repeatedly by her and her friends, and basically made to feel worthless at every turn.

I was almost ready to leave when she announced she was pregnant. I knew immediately I had to protect my child from her at all costs, but still I felt trapped. She constantly used her pregnancy as a way to play mind games with me, threatening to harm my daughter. I managed to convince her to give the baby up for adoption. Less than 2 months later, she was out on the street. She threatened me several times, first with legal action saying that I abused her, then though threats of harm on myself and my family.

I may never be over the psychological  damage she inflicted upon me. However, my Mistress has helped to heal alot of the pain. She has showed me what love really is, what a Mistress is supposed to be. There are still days that the pain overwhelms me, nearly driving me to self harm or even suicide, but those days are quickly becoming fewer and farther between. Its a long road out of hell, a slow beginning, but I'm moving along more freely. The chains that bind me now are chains of love, instead of chains of abuse and fear.


< Message edited by youngsubgeoff -- 11/27/2008 8:29:33 PM >

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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 4:49:48 AM   
ChampagneMojito


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: UK
Status: offline 		youngsubgeoff - what a horrendous story.  I admire your courage in telling it and wish you and your Mistress all the best for the future.

Daes - thanks for raising this disturbing topic.  I think, particularly for submissives starting out in BDSM, it is important for them to learn  how to protect themselves from those who would manipulate their submission and twist it for abusive purposes.

I've encountered many submissives/slaves over the years with horror stories - from savage beatings to prostitution, degradation and emotional torture.  Those who find themselves in such situations have often had their will and self-belief worn down to the point where they have difficulty facing up to the reality of their situations.  There's a million miles of difference between those of us who like to play hard, and those who use their 'Dominance' to inflict true physical and emotional damage on those who have entrusted themselves to their care.

An individual's life experiences teach them how to value themselves.  Those who have experienced abuse and trauma in their early life are more likely to accept or even seek it out in later life.  It horrifies me to my core that those most in need of a loving Dominant are often those most prepared to accept all kinds of abuse in the name of BDSM.

E x

_____________________________

I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naïve or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman. ~Anaïs Nin

(in reply to Daes)
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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 5:04:37 AM   
CdnExplorer


Posts: 227
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline 		This is something I've thought about some over the last year. I don't think it's as simple as valuing yourself watching out for those who would manipulate you. People who do that kind of thing aren't going to be carrying a flag and saying, "Hey, over here!". I've developed some strong feelings for the Domme I'm playing with, and at one point this summer realized that I could potentially give her a lot of control. For a short while I was a bit disturbed by the thought of running into the wrong woman and having my desire to please and be submissive subtly used against me until I was trapped in an abusive situation. There's no way to know what is going on until it's potentially too late.

If the Domme I was seeing now turned abusive, I know I would feel trapped in a way...and she lives in another city! My best friend had a girlfriend who I suspect was a Domme (as I caught some snippets of conversation about her doing an inverted suspension on him). He moved halfway across the country to be with her, and after a time messaged me out of the blue and told me he was scared of her. This guy is in judo and was large enough to throw her around the room with one arm. It was the emotional hold she had over him that gave her that kind of control. Thankfully he managed to get out of that relationship and moved back home, but now I think he's a bit turned off from D/s.

(in reply to ChampagneMojito)
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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 5:46:17 AM   
MsFlutter


Posts: 1305
Joined: 11/12/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daes

...Not only was this woman in the same building that he worked in, she also had keys to his house. I advised him to change the locks, find a new job, and get a restraining order. He was very reluctant, he didn't believe the police would help him, much less believe him, and he was afraid that the consequences would be Worse if he did anything at all. He wanted to wait until she released him in a year's time. I havent heard from him since. So I can only hope that he is doing better.

The mistress in question has a profile here on collarme, and quite frankly when I take in his experiences with her in context with her profile, she comes off like a man-hating psycho.



Not that I endorse subterfuge as a way of life, but is it reasonable to assume that she too may have someting to protect? Has she a professional reputation to uphold? a civic image to safeguard?
 
Less-than-honorable individuals hate being in the spotlight. Visibility really disturbs them. Yes, it IS possible to bring their activities to light in a 'can't quite trace the source' kind of way.
 
If all she understands is blackmail and bar brawl politics, I'd say explore the option. Suggestions could reach her friends that being spotlighted as an accessory could bring discomfort.  A picture is worth a thousand words.
 
I'm not suggesting revenge - I'm suggesting that some benefit could come of encouraging the thick-headed to understand they too stand to lose. Call it dirty politics if you like but some people refuse to play fair.  







_____________________________

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"The right data, filtered through an idiot, can yield a bad answer." einstien5201

(in reply to Daes)
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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 6:29:11 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline 		<Hugs her Koko> I am so proud of you for telling your story. I know it took a tremendous amount of courage. Hopefully, other's will read it and know that it is OK to tell.
 
I would like to take a shot at answering some of PeonForHer's (Father's) questions. They are good ones and makes plenty of sense, if the answers were all in black and white.
 
(Note: This is for those who haven't read the entire thread. These questions were taken out of context. They are not directed right at the OP's subject, but as general questions that PeonForHer's father would have asked if he were handling that case)
 
quote:

"Why doesn't he change the locks?" 


Because she would find some other way inside. Locked doors never stopped an abuser/attacker.



quote:

"Why's he still hanging around her when she's done something like threatening him with gardening shears? 


Because she threatened to hurt his family. Burn their houses down, blow up their vehicles or threatened to "make them pay" for his disobedience.


quote:

 "How, physically, did he get into the position where she was able to threaten him like that the first place?  Was he tied up? 


Yes. Because she told him that this was the way a Dominant was supposed to be. He wanted to believe that he was being a "good submissive".
 
The threat against his loved ones would be enough to keep him "in place", but add to that the physical threat to his own self, plus the psychological conditioning that she has done to him, it is no wonder he feels (felt) like he had no one to turn to.

I wonder if the questions would be the same, if it were a woman who was trying to get help? We (as a society) seem to think that if a man is being abused, all he has to do is raise his fist to his abuser. Not true. Many men, such as my own Koko, were raised to never hit a woman. Never. She took advantage of that and used his moral character against him.
 
These days, little girls are taught that should a man hurt them, they should tell. Little boys are taught to handle their own fights. Parents should advice their children that no matter who comes at them with a knife or gardening shears, to protect themselves. Male or female. We have come a long way in recognizing the plight of an abused man, but there is still so much stigma regarding male rape and abuse that it makes it so difficult for a man to come forward against his abuser. Hopefully in the future, a man will have the same treatment in the justice system as a woman has. But then again, look how long it has taken for a woman to be able to accuse her husband of rape and him being charged for it.

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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 6:51:13 AM   
Steponme73


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		A very disturbing topic, but one that is very real.  Women are just now getting some of the help they need to get out of abusive situations...yet it is still hard for them to do.
A man will be made a mockery of, because he is a man.  He is suppose to be Macho and handle all situations.  I know if I was in an abusive situation, the last people I would turn to would be the police or any other agency that is male dominated....they don't get it.  So you won't get any help there.
It is a tough situation to be in with little or no where to turn.  Reading some of the profiles on CM, if you take them litterally, are kind of scary.

(in reply to MistressOfGa)
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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 7:29:28 AM   
atypicalsub


Posts: 284
Joined: 4/11/2008
From: an atypical sub
Status: offline 		Thank you for bringing this topic up.  I have known a couple of men who were in situations of being abused by their partners, both women and by other men. 

When a man is abused by a woman it is particularly difficult for him to get help.  Unfortunately police also have their own micro-culture which promotes the macho type image of men even more strongly than our general society.  As a result police officers, often even female police officers, will regard a man in this situation as just being a wimp and not someone who actualy needs help from authorities.


_____________________________

Polyamorous, solitary eclectic pagan, pansexual slut, and personal pet of MistressYes

"Do not do anything you are ashamed of, and don't be ashamed of anything you do"
(although I'm sure my bio-family wishes I did less and was ashamed of more)


(in reply to Daes)
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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 8:35:08 AM   
MissEnchanted


Posts: 510
Status: offline
quote:


As a woman, it is easy. You say a man hit you, the cops will come immediately and he will be arrested. But as a man, (at least from the research I have done) I have a hard time believing he would get the same assistance.

Anyone else have any experiences dealing with a similar situation? Do you leave it as is even if it could mean Serious harm to the sub? Are there any resources out there I might have missed that could help someone else in this situation?

Daes,

Where I live if the cops are called because a woman is abusing a man, the woman will be arrested and charged. I know a few Sheriffs that would be very sympathetic to that man's plight.

There are support groups and therapy here for abused men, and hotlines to help them.

The emotional trauma for a man is even worse that for a woman because of societies expectations and fixed ideas. However it has similarities and a man might stay just like a woman might stay with their abuser.

Something I'm wondering:
Did you ever meet this person? Are you absolutely sure he is telling the truth? I am wondering why he never contacted you again. That in itself might be a red flag?

On the other hand....If he is real, I hope he has gotten out of that sick relationship and is healing.

I had a sub once tell me of an abuse situation, then it turned out he was lying and looking for 'a way in' with me and a liar in general.
He used my compassion to try to got close. That was a good learning experience for me.

< Message edited by MissEnchanted -- 11/28/2008 8:39:18 AM >

(in reply to Daes)
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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 11:06:44 AM   
AlexandraLynch


Posts: 778
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline 		As a dominant, I don't want to put someone in a situation in which they can't leave. I want our Boy to keep his vehicle. I want him to keep a bank account with emergency funds in them. I want service from love and devotion, not from lack of options.

(in reply to MissEnchanted)
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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 11:36:59 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		A woman doesn't have to be particularly domme to be a dangerous psycho. I knew of one case where a crazy woman destroyed utterly the lives of two men she had been intimate with--one who had an "older-man-younger-girl" fling with him in her senior year of high school, one who had been her boyfriend in college. They were both journalists--she cost both of them their jobs and reputations, and the older man also lost his wife of thirty years: no, she didn't leave him, she actually died of the stress caused by his public disgrace.

So far as self-styled dommes go...yeah, there are some serious abusers here and everywhere. And many of them believe that the same ethical standards by which a man would be condemned for abuse, emotional or physical, do not apply to them because they have ovaries. It's nonsense.

"Pushing limits" in a mutually pleasurable, healthy way is one thing. Everyone knows that limits become more flexible under the right conditions. But there are people who use the trust offered by their D/S partners to really trample other people's rights and feelings. It isn't sexy and it isn't cute, and honestly I get really tired of hearing from women whose main pleasure in life is being "Weal Twue Sadists" and doing painful, unwanted things to vanilla men or non-masochists. Or women who regard men as Human Wallets, for that matter, (although I hear that less from D/S folk and more from strippers and other prostitutes.)

Bleah. Squick-o-rama.




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"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to MissEnchanted)
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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 3:05:55 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		The single most difficult thing I can imagine my father trying to understand is the idea of a submissive man in a relationship with a dominant woman, YSG. 

My father once arrested Peter Wyngarde - a famous actor here in the UK at one time - for cottaging, back in the 1970s when most homosexual activities were still both illegal and quite rigorously policed.  He was known as quite a ladies' man - almost a pin-up.  My father said to him, "What do you need to go with men for?  You could have any woman you like!" 

Coppers - here in the UK, anyway - have only recently got their heads around the concept of gays.  They're not going to have a snowball's chance in hell of knowing anything about, or having appreciation of,  D/s relationships.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 11/28/2008 3:09:02 PM >

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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 6:10:08 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I was just thinking about some of this the other day.  Women have shelters they can go to and get counsel and such, but men... good luck with that!  It is like it was for women many, many years ago.  I was shocked there were no places for women and domestic abuse was such a taboo to speak about and there were few resources.  It took many years of women speaking and coming forward to bring about change and it took many years to be able to bring shelters about.  I do believe it will be the same for men.

I almost thought of opening a shelter.  The thing is, that until there are shelter's for men, more public awareness from those willing to expose themselves or their stories, not much will be done.  I almost think it might be a good idea to bring men's divisions to the women's shelters that are already in place and funded.  We first have to show there is reason for the extra needed funding and placements and then fine tune how it should be done.  Until men come forward, nothing will happen.

As a start we may need hot line numbers that men could call and may have them as I haven't researched it yet.  But even if we do have hotlines, what resources are there to send these men to?

I want to give kudo's for those of you who have shared a story or have worked your way through an abusive situation.  Without your stories, nothing will change.  We need to be teaching our male um's the same things we teach our female and slowly change can happen, but it will be in the living rooms of our homes that major change is brought about and this is a subject we need to be talking about.

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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 7:07:31 PM   
sub4mistressinnj


Posts: 14
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		Women are pretty much given free reign to treat men like dirt. The absolute worst are those financial dommes that are cropping up on sites like these, a lot of them have red flags all over their profiles. But then yet again, men throw themselves at the feet of these women and ignore red flags so how much sympathy can I have for them? Hell, a lot of them beg for that kind of treatment, probably without realizing the consequences.

I also forgot to add that most of the perpetrators of the "men can't get abused" crap are OTHER MEN. Just another reason why gender roles should be smashed, imo.


< Message edited by sub4mistressinnj -- 11/28/2008 7:30:19 PM >

(in reply to Daes)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/28/2008 7:18:35 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Just as women had to learn the red flags, how not to and to know when, how and how not to get into relationships that are abusive and when to get out, men must too.  We all have some accountablity in it.  It may not be easy, but we must see that there is a part we play in it sometimes and learn not to play that part.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/29/2008 2:35:30 AM   
tweedydaddy


Posts: 673
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		The police are there for a purpose. If anyone is doing anything non consensual with anyone, then they need to be called. If a woman is running around behaving like that she needs treatment. The old myth that the police won't be sympathetic is dead and buried, they have a job to do and they do it.
Your kink is nothing to do with it, they are only interested in keeping people safe where all this is concerned.

(in reply to Daes)
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RE: Crossing over from Supremacy to Abuse - 11/29/2008 2:39:32 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Ignorant police are found everywhere and they are not a myth.  Even to this day I have found police who make odd comments about domestic abuse and show attitude that is personal despite what the law states or what they are supposed to do.  They are people and often respond to things not as they have been required or trained, but coming from a personal place.  Okay, most are more aware and less personal... but you still find them out there.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to tweedydaddy)
Profile   Post #: 20
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