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Dom training - 3/5/2004 4:01:24 PM   
Myste


Posts: 14
Joined: 3/4/2004
Status: offline 		Can a person be trained to be a Dom?

While I believe the personality of a person has a lot to do with how good a Dom they are I still believe that a person can be taught to be dominant. Just as we can teach a dog tricks or a lab rat how to maneuver a maze, a person can also be conditioned to respond appropriately depending on the situation. Just as a submissive can be taught the appropriate response to a request, can't a Dom be taught the same?

Granted this may not make a good dominant but a still a dominant nonetheless.

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Myste

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kinkytexans/
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RE: Dom training - 3/5/2004 4:53:57 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Myste

Just as a submissive can be taught the appropriate response to a request, can't a Dom be taught the same?



Well, since I tend to believe that the *approriate* response for the dominant is what they want it to be, if they need to be *taught* what they want. and are incapable of knowing that for themseles, someone telling them it doesn't make them dominant.

Granted, people can and are taught ways to make them a better dominant. They learn to understand stand themselves better, they are taught the safest way to do a cutting, they learn the dangers of suspension.

What I do believe you can teach someone to be is a top. Teach them to *assume* the dominant role. It goes to the question Gloria asked. A top is in charge, enjoys the play, but being the dominant in the relationship at all times is not what they are looking for.

As usual, these are just my thoughts. Other's will disagree :)

Sandy

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Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to Myste)
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RE: Dom training - 3/5/2004 5:31:40 PM   
inyouagain


Posts: 418
Joined: 1/6/2004
Status: offline 		The examples of animal behavior modification (tricks,etc) listed are just that... examples of behavior.

Behaviors can be taught to anything with a brain... watch your goldfish salivate when you set the box of fish food next to the goldfish bowl and walk away... if nothing else, he/she will monitor the surface for conditioned 'anticipated' munchies.

Personalities are formed of multidimensional behaviors (and chemical balance), and many cross while others intersect... we are diverse in that we have use of much more of our much larger brains, than 'critters' and lower lifeforms. While we can be taught behaviors, how many and how complex of behaviors does it take to roll out a fully retrofitted sub/switch shiney new Dominant? How much training will it take?

I think you can teach a poodle to chase a bird, as recreation, but it would be most difficult to teach him to be self-sufficient in the wild and stalk, kill, and eat birds for survival.

IMHO, you can be trained to act/behave virtually any way... while you are still stuck with your inborn characteristics and personality, or your natural self.

Conversely, our social order is designed to suppress Dominance, and a Dominant is trained to hide their true Dominant personalities in vanilla, and can only be themselves in private, or BDSM lifestyles. That infers Dominant's can in fact be trained to act docile and passive in the vanilla world, but it is only a behavior (subs/slave's applaud!).

Sometimes it's not nice to mess with Mother Nature, while other times it's a trick.

BTW: I've seen the term 'True Dom' and 'True Master' (no offense Ladies, I haven't seen those terms show up in your arena) used in many perspectives. Are these classifications based on inborn qualifications or higher training/enlightenment, or somone else's feelings/opinion? :)

Inyouagain

(in reply to Myste)
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RE: Dom training - 3/6/2004 4:30:04 AM   
myrmidon


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		Myste has a workable point here. inyouagain is right insofar as his is more a linguistic concern or one of terminology.

I do believe it is possible to take, say, an as-yet vanilla candidate and once you have opened them up to the ideas (and if the attendant pleasures are insufficient, provide a working rationale that is) teach them to release nascent dominant urges. This is a question of conditioning and success would depend on the degree with which the candidate understood and desired the outcome.

So just who are you planning on corrupting Myste?

Attachment (1)

(in reply to inyouagain)
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RE: Dom training - 3/6/2004 10:34:34 AM   
sweetieboop


Posts: 84
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I agree with Sandy (as I have many times before). As I've said in other posts, I think that d/s is something you have in you. Whether you accept it or not, or whether you're willing to bring it to the surface is the issue. As inyou said, you can teach anyone behaviors, but if it's not truly who they are, it will not take. For instance, I've had a lot of people ask me if I ever thought of being a Domme. Some say they can see me filling that role. I however, feel that I don't have that in me. I have no desire to be A Domme. I am a sub who BTW, is finally accepting who I am. I've always had these needs and desires, but I kept them surpressed because I thought they're "wrong." I just didn't understand.

(in reply to myrmidon)
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RE: Dom training - 3/6/2004 10:34:02 PM   
sabersedge


Posts: 7
Joined: 3/6/2004
Status: offline 		Basically I will say Yes.

I think you can not train someone to be a Dom or a Sub. They have to have that nature unless they can act very well. But that is not truly a Dom or s Sub.

Where I agree is the training. Experience teaches you the nuances of being a Dom. Being a Dom is a combination of personality, skills, intuition, awareness. The last three can be taught in some degree. Skill especially, how to spank, how to use a paddle, how to discipline. Discipline is not only physical, it can be ignoring, taking a favorite item for a short time, etc. These things can be taught.

How do I know. More expereinced Doms\Dommes taught me when I needed advice.

And Yes, I have a lot more to learn.

(in reply to sweetieboop)
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RE: Dom training - 3/7/2004 2:20:45 PM   
Myste


Posts: 14
Joined: 3/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: myrmidon

So just who are you planning on corrupting Myste?


HAHAHA... no one in mind at the moment but I'm always open to the possibilities. ;)

I think we all agree that behavior and skill can be learned but some think that doesn't make a "true" dom. This brings us back to the age old question: What is a true dominant?

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Myste

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kinkytexans/

(in reply to myrmidon)
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RE: Dom training - 3/7/2004 8:26:41 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Myste

I think we all agree that behavior and skill can be learned but some think that doesn't make a "true" dom. This brings us back to the age old question: What is a true dominant?



Age old indeed. And who gets to decide?

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Myste)
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RE: Dom training - 3/7/2004 8:29:12 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Myste

Can a person be trained to be a Dom?

While I believe the personality of a person has a lot to do with how good a Dom they are I still believe that a person can be taught to be dominant. Just as we can teach a dog tricks or a lab rat how to maneuver a maze, a person can also be conditioned to respond appropriately depending on the situation. Just as a submissive can be taught the appropriate response to a request, can't a Dom be taught the same?

Granted this may not make a good dominant but a still a dominant nonetheless.



The qualities that make competence in the field can be learned (taught? trained?). The passion (or lack thereof) comes from within.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Myste)
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RE: Dom training - 3/8/2004 12:01:19 PM   
Myste


Posts: 14
Joined: 3/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz
Age old indeed. And who gets to decide?


Exactly my point, MizSuz.

_____________________________

Myste

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kinkytexans/

(in reply to MizSuz)
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RE: Dom training - 3/8/2004 4:21:08 PM   
MistressKiss


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

While I believe the personality of a person has a lot to do with how good a Dom they are I still believe that a person can be taught to be dominant. Just as we can teach a dog tricks or a lab rat how to maneuver a maze, a person can also be conditioned to respond appropriately depending on the situation. Just as a submissive can be taught the appropriate response to a request, can't a Dom be taught the same?


This is an excellent question. I believe that it is critical that Dominants undergo some type of training. As most submissives have already come to know, there are far too many people playing at being a Dominant who really are just people who like aggressive sex. Not that there is anything wrong with aggressive sex, mind you...but any submissive who has been a submissive for long really knows the difference between a horny guy (or girl) and a Dominant male, or female.

Dominants should at the very least have a mentoring situation with an experienced person, and be willing to learn and willing to listen. Being a switch, and being a bit of a cocky submissive (grins), I can easily tell if someone is not really in the lifestyle because of a belief in it. Look for a respected lifestyler and learn from him or her. It will make you better and make your submissive a happier one. Be open and talk...communicate. That is so critical to BDSM relationships.

Best wishes to you.

(in reply to Myste)
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RE: Dom training - 3/8/2004 5:49:34 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressKiss


This is an excellent question. I believe that it is critical that Dominants undergo some type of training. As most submissives have already come to know, there are far too many people playing at being a Dominant who really are just people who like aggressive sex. Not that there is anything wrong with aggressive sex, mind you...but any submissive who has been a submissive for long really knows the difference between a horny guy (or girl) and a Dominant male, or female.

Dominants should at the very least have a mentoring situation with an experienced person, and be willing to learn and willing to listen. Being a switch, and being a bit of a cocky submissive (grins), I can easily tell if someone is not really in the lifestyle because of a belief in it. Look for a respected lifestyler and learn from him or her. It will make you better and make your submissive a happier one. Be open and talk...communicate. That is so critical to BDSM relationships.

Best wishes to you.


Actually the Dominats I know and consider to be good ones. Sex is'nt part of it at all.
The lesser ones it does seem to be what they are after.

Anyway I have a question. I mentor both Doms and subs alike. Do you feel it is right that a submissive mentors a Dominant? Or vice versa. Should a sub mentor a sub? Dom mentor a Dom? Dom mentor a sub? Sub mentor a Dom?

(in reply to MistressKiss)
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RE: Dom training - 3/8/2004 8:17:59 PM   
MistressKiss


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Sex definitely isn't always a part of the dynamic, but it is a good indicator of what the person is really looking for. I have "mentored" a Dominant, providing Him information as to how to deal with and look for a submissive, and what to watch for as far as behavior is concerned. For instance, bad behavior can be an attention-getter, etc. It was a good exchange, and he was very, very new at the time. We never actually met, but I have had several emails since then from him, and he would say "hey, you were right about thus and so..." so it was a mutually beneficial relationship. When you are mentoring someone, it forces you to stop and think about your own beliefs and reasons for acting in a certain way. I think it is very beneficial, too, for Doms to mentor Doms, and frankly, I don't think it happens often enough. After all, the definition of a mentor is "trusted counselor or guide", so I think any lifestyler can mentor any other where there is a degree of trust and inquisitiveness. Just my thoughts - others may disagree. I say, learn from wherever you can to grow and be better at what you do.

(in reply to sub4hire)
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RE: Dom training - 8/14/2005 3:11:30 PM   
MasterTemujin


Posts: 42
Joined: 5/2/2005
Status: offline 		My belief is that one either is nor is not dominant. But I have seen on one of those educational channels on television a psychology study done in the 1970's where a group of friends were placed in a guard or prisoner role. It was truly amazing to see the changes and how quickly they took effect. The guards quickly became sadistic and the prisoners stoppled playing along. The experiment was stopped well before its planned conclusion. Something to think about.

R/S,

Master Temujin

(in reply to MistressKiss)
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RE: Dom training - 8/14/2005 3:18:54 PM   
Fidelity


Posts: 192
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline 		I can train someone to top. That's an act.

Dominant is who you are.

(in reply to MasterTemujin)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Dom training - 8/14/2005 3:23:30 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		I agree completely with EStrict. You can train anyone to ACT dominant, i.e. to use dominant techniques, but you can't train just anyone to BE dominant unless it's in their nature to begin with.

(in reply to EStrict)
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RE: Dom training - 8/14/2005 3:50:24 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The Nature vs Nurture debate, LOL standard online BDSM debate #5094.

Well there is a ballance like any activity there is both talent and practice, that come into play. A person with HUGE talent and not dedication to practice can easily be surpassed by someone with lesser talent and a greater drive to learn.
However some people have to little talent to become good at somethings.

Thus we end up with the people taking one side or the other of the debate instead of looking at the question as flawed. It is the combination of natural talent and the drive to learn that makes one a good Dominant lack of either one makes a minor leager at best.

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to Myste)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Dom training - 8/14/2005 3:59:15 PM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		I agree with Archer's take on this. But I also have something to add.

I smoke. It's a filthy, dirty habit, and I know this. It's not good for me, it may even kill me. However, no matter how much someone else may want me to quit, I have to want to do it for myself in order for me to successfully break the habit.

I had a man in my life once who called himself a Dom who was really more or less a rope guy with no D/s. It mattered not how much I wanted him to find his dominance; I introduced him to others who would have been more than happy to mentor him. He was happy being the guy with the rope who wanted to tie me up.

He never became my master and I still smoke.....

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Dom training - 8/14/2005 4:01:01 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		You can train someone how to dominate another, ie Topping. You can train someone how to submit to another, ie Bottoming. But a dominant nature is not the same thing as the act of dominating someone, nor is a submissive nature the same as acting submissive. I've always maintained that there are strong parallels between leadership qualties and those qualties that make up a dominant nature. The US military has spent an enormous amount of time researching how to develop leadership, and still can't regularly turn out great leaders, though they can turn out mediocre onces. Even people like John Maxwell, admit that although leadership training can instill some leadership ability in almost anyone, natural leaders will always rise above the rest. I feel its the same with dominance. You could take an individual and teach them to be dominant, but they would probably only be mediocre at best if they lack the natural qualities. On the other hand, someone with the natural qualities can become a great dominant with the right experience, but until that happens they too will only be mediocre. Its just not something you can give a simple answer for. I have some personal theories I won't share here (mostly cause they are too long and complicated to attempt posting) on what actually creates those dominant qualities, but for now I'll just leave it at this... Life's crucible is still capable of producing things no lab technician can match.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Myste)
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RE: Dom training - 8/14/2005 6:06:13 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

The Nature vs Nurture debate, LOL standard online BDSM debate #5094.

Well there is a ballance like any activity there is both talent and practice, that come into play. A person with HUGE talent and not dedication to practice can easily be surpassed by someone with lesser talent and a greater drive to learn.
However some people have to little talent to become good at somethings.

Thus we end up with the people taking one side or the other of the debate instead of looking at the question as flawed. It is the combination of natural talent and the drive to learn that makes one a good Dominant lack of either one makes a minor leager at best.

In Leather

Archer



Talent and drive to learn may produce a good technician, nothing more. Perhaps that qualifies as dominant to some, but not to me. I don't think the question is flawed, I think it's an issue of semantics.

Moreover, classifying someone as a "good Dominant", or deciding who has surpassed whom requires some sort of yardstick by which you measure them, and I don't agree to that concept at all. I belive that dominance and submission are relative concepts which are virtually meaningless outside of the unique relationship between individuals. Since everyone has their own unique needs, desires, and emotions, the quality of the dominance can be evaluated only within the realm of that relationship, and nowhere else.

Naturally, your mileage may vary, and that's OK too.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 20
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