Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (Full Version)

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SteelofUtah -> Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 9:27:17 AM)



A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
~~Those who forget their History will Repeat it~~
 
 ----------------------------- In 1929, the Soviet Union
 established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents,
 unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
 ------------------------------ In 1911, Turkey established gun
 control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend
 themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
 ------------------------------  Germany established gun control in
 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were
 unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
 
 -------------------------------  China established gun control in
 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend
 themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
 -------------------------------  Guatemala established gun control
 in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000     Mayan Indians, unable to defend
 themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
 
 ------------------------------- Uganda established gun control in
 1970.  From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves,
 were rounded up and exterminated.
 
 -------------------------------  Cambodia established gun control
 in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated' people, unable to defend
 themselves, were rounded up and   exterminated.
 
 ------------------------------- Defenseless people rounded up and
 exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
 
 ------------------------------- It has been more than a year since
 gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal
 firearms to be destroyed by their own Government, a program costing
 Australian taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results
are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide,
assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent
(yes, 44 percent)!
    In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300
 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the
 criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!
    While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in
 armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past
 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
   There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of
 the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
 safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was expended
 in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and
 the other historical facts above prove it.
    You won't see this datum on the US evening news, or hear politicians
 disseminating this information.
    Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
    The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind
them of this history lesson. With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we
are 'subjects'. During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America
because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
 
WORDS OF WISDOM
 
John Steinbeck wrote: Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too
old to fight, he'll just kill you.
 
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
 
I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.
 
When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.
 
A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The
reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked
him 'Why do you carry a 45?' The Ranger responded, 'Because they don't make
a 46.'
 
An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity.
 
The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented
on his wearing his sidearm. 'Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you
expecting trouble?' 'No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have
brought my rifle.'
 
Beware the man who only has one gun. HE PROBABLY KNOWS HOW TO USE
IT!!!
 
I was once asked by a lady visiting if I had a gun in the house. I
said I did. She said 'Well I certainly hope it isn't loaded!' To which I
said, 'Of course it is loaded, it's useless without bullets!' She then
asked,  'Are you that afraid of someone evil coming into your house?' My
reply was, "No, not at all.. I am not afraid of the house catching fire
either, but I   have fire extinguishers around, and they are all loaded
too. having a gun in the house that isn't loaded is like having a car in the
garage without gas in the tank.
 
If you are a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment, please forward.
 
Aspire to Inspire, before you Expire!



rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 9:29:23 AM)

The words of wisdom were very nice. I knew many old timer sheriffs when I lived out west, and they all carried their pistols. People didn't even blink.



tweedydaddy -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 9:52:53 AM)

I love the words of wisdom, really like them, but the statistics are myopic nonsense, there are facts and there are statistics, like having a few handguns would have made a difference in Russia against the NKVD or the Armenians against the Turks, bearing in mind what the Turks did to a massively superior heavily armed highly trained task force in Gallipoli.
To say that guns keep people free is nonsense, since we banned handguns in the this country the only people with them are on a shortcut to decades long prison sentences. Iraq was literally awash with guns and still is, there are the sort of tin pot militias there that some nutcases would like the see in the US and they are basically armed self interest groups with no concept of freedom.
I had to spend years living with guns of almost every type in the Royal Marines and handguns are as much use for self defence as a pair of tights, a man with a knife will run you through long before you can draw and cock a handgun, they are a false confidence, and carrying a long gun around will get you more the the odd funny look.
The defenceless people were killed by psychotic despotic regimes, oddly enough by people using guns, the idea that a civilian population could overcome their own military is absurd, the collape of the iron curtain was possible because the military sided with the people, not because a few gun nuts were able to blow away tanks.
In Britain the only people with handguns are criminals, they go away for a very long time when they get caught. Our whole death toll for a year as a nation is less than get killed in New York on a weekend.
This armed civilian is a free civilian is quite, quite mad. It's as if I said that I couldn't be free without a cricket bat.
There is nothing soft about the British, a respectable, clean record holding man walked into a nursery school and started shooting children with a fully licenced gun.
Shortly afterwards we banned handguns for ever. Full stop.
How many high school massacres and shopping mall gun sprees can you expect as the social tensions from the recession feed through?
Ours is not to reason why, just to get the guns away from our streets.
Nothing good ever came from a gun.



UncleNasty -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 9:55:13 AM)

Here in Kentucky we have very loose open carry laws. I once tested them for a period of a month, carrying either a 9mm or a .38 on my hip. The only places I avoided were schools, govermental buildings, and private properties that had signs prohibiting me from coming in heavy.

I did get some looks, but no one commented or questioned my rights to carry a weapon.

It was an interesting month.

One handed Uncle Nasty (I still have my "gun hand")



SteelofUtah -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 9:59:38 AM)

tweetydaddy,

Mind you I will NEVER say that law abiding citizens don't go hay wire and slaughter people they certainly do. However The Odds are dressed the other way. the VAST majority of crimes are committed with stolen or illegal fire arms.

The Majority of those who would surrender their fire arms would be of the law abiding type.

The Point about the Statistics is that Gun Control HELPED to make them doscile. Because they had no means to defend themselves against the firepower of the other side.

I wonder what those numbers would look like if there were NO guncontrol in effect? Can you not see that at least SOME of them might look VERY different.

Remember that one of the LARGEST and most known advocates for Gun Control was Adolf Hitler and for the exact reason that an Unarmed country is Less Likely to Revolt.

Steel



Musicmystery -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 10:01:00 AM)

The gun lobby never sleeps.

And its devotees never stop repeating invented bullshit about "They're gonna take all our guns!!!!" I'm no foe of legal and responsibly owned firearms, but the tired argument of "guns create peace" has a host of places around the globe refuting it.

Meanwhile, sales climb. You do the math.

Then have another beer, read more blogs, and check youtube for breaking news.




popeye1250 -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 11:17:45 AM)

A few years back I was planning on going to Australia until I heard about the rising crime situation in that country after the govt. confiscated weapons from their citizens.
That's the armed robbery figures that I saw back then too.
That sealed it.
So, I went to Ireland again instead.



celticlord2112 -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 11:30:02 AM)

quote:

but the tired argument of "guns create peace" has a host of places around the globe refuting it.

What places are those? 



Musicmystery -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 11:32:46 AM)

Heard of Iraq? Afghanistan? Somalia? Sudan? Zimbabwe?

If you're never going to present evidence, I'm done corresponding with you. Waste of time.



celticlord2112 -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 11:39:49 AM)

quote:

Heard of Iraq? Afghanistan? Somalia? Sudan? Zimbabwe?

I wasn't aware citizens in those places owned their own guns.  From what I've read in the news accounts, that is generally not the case.

If anything, those places are arguments for more gun ownership, and not less.



SteelofUtah -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 11:41:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The gun lobby never sleeps.

And its devotees never stop repeating invented bullshit about "They're gonna take all our guns!!!!" I'm no foe of legal and responsibly owned firearms, but the tired argument of "guns create peace" has a host of places around the globe refuting it.

Meanwhile, sales climb. You do the math.

Then have another beer, read more blogs, and check youtube for breaking news.




If this is your reply then you mistook me completely which seems to be a never ending cry from the other side as well.

I believe in Legal Rights to Carry and Own any firearm I choose. These laws have already changed enough so that I was required to turn over EXPENSIVE fire Arms because owning them became illegal after I purchased them.

My Fight is when does it stop? If we don't fight for our right to have them how many will they take away from us? Remember the Fully Automatic Assult Rifle Ban? Did you know in the DECADE before it became a law that only 3 cases of registered firearms were used in a crime and one of those three was by a Police Officer who built his own firing pin! The Law abiding citizens are not the problem so tell me how removing thier ability to protect themselves from such firearms solves the problem?

**On a Side note I have been asked how removing guns is removing thier ability to protect themselves. I offer the only Fact worth offering, Superior Fire power cannot be suppressed by inferior fire power.**

I am not a Gun Toteing War Monger, I don't actually own any more guns, I used too but situations changed and had to give them up, but it was MY choice and that is the choice that should be made, the individuals choice.

Each American should choose what kind of safety they can legally have which is why I vote to stop any and all new gun regulations (With the exception of the Grigger Guard Law which I only voted for because it opposed a larger regulation bill)

it isn't that I think they are gunna take ALL OUR GUNS they shouldn't have the right to take ANY of them.

Steel



DuncanM120 -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 11:48:36 AM)

Iraq, Afgahanistan, Somalia, Suden, Zimbabwe?

What are these shinning examples of?

The only common theme I see is where a select few who have guns have been able to oppress the poor and those who are not able to afford or obtain such weapons.

Gun laws in basic principle just do not work.  Banning weapons, will have the same effect as banning substances such as Cocaine, Heron, and Pot. They will then be traded by people who do not adhere to laws, and these people and the way they conduct business usually have a must different definition of the term "Hostile Take Over.".  It is a pretty basic fact that criminals do not go to Gander Mountain, or Cabelas and buy their guns.  And second of all this new Gun Law HR1022 is kind of humorous in the fact that it is banning weapons that cost anywhere from $800 to $1200 and up.  Not many criminals use those kind of weapons to commit crimes.  It would like like a Domino's Pizza driver using a Lexus to deliver pizzas.  Just not cost effective.  Next ask yourself this, if the goverment in an effort to crub prostitution said "No one will legally have sex anymore.  Not married people, not single people, not gay people.  NO SEX!"  Do you think that would hinder prostitution or do you think it would actually increase prostitution?




SimplyMichael -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 11:49:39 AM)

Musicmystery,

I hate to break it to you but doesn't Iraq disprove your point.  The US military, in all its might and glory cannot put down a bunch of arabs, arguably some of the worst fighters on the planet (taking the fact that the entire ME still hasn't defeated tiny Israel).

You could try and make the case that the US is hamstrung by playing "nice" but the Afghans beat the Russians who used everything but wide spread use of nerve gas.  They had a bit of help with Stinger missiles but that only sped up their defeat.  Those same backward ill equipped sons of bitches beat the British, arguably rather good at subduing natives and they are now holding their own with us.

In that case, US soldiers are shooting people who don't sound like them, who they can't understand, who don't look, smell, or act like them.  To put down a revolt in the US, they would have to shoot women who look like their wives, sound like their wives, and who they share the same language as.

Armies are great for defeating other armies but holding down civilian populations who have the ability to revolt is a bit more tricky.  So, if you want an anti-gun argument, you best pick one that has more solid footing, cause this one isn't firm enough to call thin ice.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 11:51:04 AM)

I saw a great bumper sticker today...

quote:

Why don't we pass a law to get drugs off the streets? 



DuncanM120 -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 11:56:19 AM)

SteelofUtah

I agree with you completely.  I know a lot of the people on the Pro-Gun side of the fence do not agree with me but I am OK with being required to purchase permits.  I would be OK with mandatory education to purchase guns.  And I am actually OK with waiting periods.  While it would piss me off, I would be OK with extended waiting periods of 30,60, or even 90 days.  If the government felt that was enough time to carefully research an individual so that people who might use them for school or workplace shootings could be filtered out, I would be OK with that.





susie -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 11:59:16 AM)

Personally sat over here on the other side of the Atlantic it always amuses me the lengths some people go to in justifying the ownership of an item specifically designed to kill people.




Termyn8or -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 12:03:57 PM)

Not with a ten foot pole, but I will say this.

You want to give up your guns go right ahead, when they come for you you will not be able to take a few of them with you. I will. There is an AK47 within a foot of where I am sitting right now and that is not going to change.

T



khalya -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 12:05:59 PM)

I am very much a liberal individual. I am for peace, love, and and everything else that goes with it. However, I DO NOT believe that people should give up their rights to bear arms. I do plan to take lessons, and get a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Thanks to Northcom, there are armed troops being deployed on citizens. I want to be able to defend myself, and others, if need be. The Mumbia attackers proved the point that the government, and its officials are loath to attack back, when they know you are armed just as well as they are. All American citizens need to buy a gun, and learn how to use it. With the political, civil, and financial unrest that is occurring, we may need to use guns sooner than we think.



painpup -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 12:13:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Heard of Iraq? Afghanistan? Somalia? Sudan? Zimbabwe?

If you're never going to present evidence, I'm done corresponding with you. Waste of time.

yes i have! ever hear of public cafetria called lubes? where a so called armed nut case shoot alot of inocents but the nut case got stoped by legal licsenced citizen with a 357 magum i'm not talking dirty Harry here cause i'm very sure there are some who shouldn't have the right to carry maybe their wired wrong or they just got pushed to far we talk of places like  Columbine and a host of other tragidedies cause by wrong people with legal or in some case's illegal guns and if i misspelled sorry spellchecker is not working on coment page and the argument will go on and on what common people need to Do is realy look at who's been put in power and qustion there motives for why we all the legal carrying Should surrender our arms for in other countries where it has been done so the body count climbs



rdgexile -> RE: Gun Lovers ... Some Facts for those who think you should give them up. (11/28/2008 12:20:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: khalya

I am very much a liberal individual. I am for peace, love, and and everything else that goes with it. However, I DO NOT believe that people should give up their rights to bear arms. I do plan to take lessons, and get a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Thanks to Northcom, there are armed troops being deployed on citizens. I want to be able to defend myself, and others, if need be. The Mumbia attackers proved the point that the government, and its officials are loath to attack back, when they know you are armed just as well as they are. All American citizens need to buy a gun, and learn how to use it. With the political, civil, and financial unrest that is occurring, we may need to use guns sooner than we think.
Good for you khalya



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