RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (Full Version)

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slaveboy291 -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 11:03:34 AM)

quote:

You do? Truly?


I was speaking more figuratively telling him that this whole idea could come back and bite you on your ass.  And if you think that arming everyone is gonna make everybody civil, your in for one brutal reality check because not everybodies gonna share that view and your gonna get people who will shoot you for no real reason or for stupid reasons.

Of course I don't want anybody to be shot.

quote:

It aint christian to behave like a mad dog.  


Nope, Christ was the Prince of Peace, not the God of War.

But not everybodies Christian.  And of course you get people who interpret Christinaity their own way.



Lynnxz -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 11:06:29 AM)

Whoaa... so only Christians should be allowed to own guns, and everyone who isn't christian is some kind of crazy violent criminal??

Haha... really? REALLY??

What in the WORLD does religion have to do with this anyway?



rulemylife -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 11:09:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

if you eliminate handguns from society, you will eventually see a dramatic decline in violent crime.

Actually, statistics show the opposite to be true.  Increase the number of handguns in society produces the dramatic decline in violent crime.

An armed society is a polite society.



And I'm sure you're going to share those statistics with us. 



slaveboy291 -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 11:17:14 AM)

quote:

Whoaa... so only Christians should be allowed to own guns,


I would really like to know where you got this from. 

quote:

and everyone who isn't christian is some kind of crazy violent criminal??   


No, I'm saying there's corrolation between a religion(any religion) and whether or not they will or will not commit violent crimes.

quote:

  What in the WORLD does religion have to do with this anyway?




Ask Rule, he/she is the one who brough religion up.



rulemylife -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 11:23:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz



Guns are a necessary evil in my experience, while I have not had the need to shoot anyone, I have used a gun, or the threat of one, in self defense several times.



I always wonder why the people that believe they need a gun for self-defense always seem to be the same ones who have dramatic stories about how their guns saved them.......................several times.

Kind of makes you wonder why you don't hear people who don't carry telling stories about their close calls with death when they only wished they would have had a gun.  



MasterG2kTR -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 11:33:13 AM)

The numbers speak for themselves, notice the US is number 8 on the list while the UK which bans guns didn't even make the cut. Kudos to them.

I'm sure CL will be reluctant to admit he is wrong so here are the stats:

Crime Statistics > Gun violence > Homicides > Firearm homicide rate > per 100,000 pop. (most recent) by country

Rank   Countries  Amount  (top to bottom)   

#1  South Africa: 74.5748  
#2  Colombia: 51.7683  
#3  Thailand: 33.0016  
#4  Guatemala: 18.5  
#5  Paraguay: 7.3508  
#6  Zimbabwe: 4.746  
#7  Mexico: 3.6622  
#8  United States: 3.6  
#9  Belarus: 3.31  
#10  Barbados: 2.9963  
#11  Uruguay: 2.5172  
#12  Lithuania: 2.2463  
#13  Slovakia: 2.1659  
#14  Côte d'Ivoire: 2.068  
#15  Estonia: 1.534  
#16  Macedonia, Republic of: 1.2802  
#17  Latvia: 1.2648  
#18  Portugal: 0.8488  
#19  Bulgaria: 0.7714  
#20  Slovenia: 0.6036  
#21  Germany: 0.4672  
#22  Moldova: 0.4671  
#23  Hungary: 0.44  
#24  Poland: 0.4289  
#25  Ukraine: 0.3495  
#26  Australia: 0.3073  
#27  Czech Republic: 0.2624  
#28  Spain: 0.2456  
#29  Azerbaijan: 0.2236  
#30  New Zealand: 0.1827  
#31  Chile: 0.1776  
#32  Singapore: 0.0249  

Also in all fairness, in all forms of murders, the US ranks #24, but the UK still ranks much lower (lower is better) at #46. So while eliminating handguns is the not end-all, it would certainly be a step in the right direction. All the nations with greater gun control suffer far less gun related crime than we do here in the US. For more stats that break it down in different ways here is the link.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_fir_hom_rat_per_100_pop-rate-per-100-000-pop



Lynnxz -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 11:38:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz



Guns are a necessary evil in my experience, while I have not had the need to shoot anyone, I have used a gun, or the threat of one, in self defense several times.



I always wonder why the people that believe they need a gun for self-defense always seem to be the same ones who have dramatic stories about how their guns saved them.......................several times.

Kind of makes you wonder why you don't hear people who don't carry telling stories about their close calls with death when they only wished they would have had a gun.  


Well, I had a crackhead try to drag me out of my car by my hair, had a guy smash the window of a taxi with a pipe to go after me, the cab driver had a gun that time, and a friend and I had a run in with some guys who thought we were trying to "take over their shit" (??) in an awkward part of San Antonio.

There ya go cupcake, not everyone lives in a suburb with the white picket fence.



Lynnxz -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 11:40:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboy291

quote:

Whoaa... so only Christians should be allowed to own guns,


I would really like to know where you got this from. 

quote:

and everyone who isn't christian is some kind of crazy violent criminal??   


No, I'm saying there's corrolation between a religion(any religion) and whether or not they will or will not commit violent crimes.

quote:

  What in the WORLD does religion have to do with this anyway?




Ask Rule, he/she is the one who brough religion up.



I was confused where it came up at all- it was to the thread in general, not just you.

But please, do search around for the religion and crime rate statistics.



rulemylife -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:00:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz



Well, I had a crackhead try to drag me out of my car by my hair, had a guy smash the window of a taxi with a pipe to go after me, the cab driver had a gun that time, and a friend and I had a run in with some guys who thought we were trying to "take over their shit" (??) in an awkward part of San Antonio.

There ya go cupcake, not everyone lives in a suburb with the white picket fence.



Gosh, golly, gee whiz.

If I had only known.

You are truly hardcore.

It's not everyone who leads such a life of drama and danger.

And here I thought you just watch too many gangsta' rap videos.

Just goes to show how wrong I can be sometimes.



philosophy -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:20:03 PM)

..interesting stats, but in fairness safety isn't the real reason why gun ownership in the USA is so fiercely protected. It's a cultural artefact. There are plenty of justifications tossed about but, at the end of te day, they're pretty irrelevant. Gun ownership, to a significent number of people in the USA, defines them as American. You're not going to make a dent in that with facts.  Equally you're not going to make dent in those countries who espouse sharia law with facts. It's the same breed of fish (to invent an idiom)......it's to do with identity, not objectivity........and fucking around with peoples sense of identity will always lead to conflict.



Lynnxz -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:22:10 PM)

[8|]

I'll remember your wisdom next time I get bored playing with mommy and daddy's money and go out trying to start some drama.

OR

It could be that shit happens, and that it might be a good idea to be more or less prepared. [:D]



Raechard -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:32:00 PM)

If you want to be prepared for the dangers of life then you'll need an umbrella and a bullet proof vest. Also never stand under trees because that lightening is everywhere damnit.



moonvine -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:37:51 PM)

The problem with guns is that although I can own them all I want, the only time I would actually have wanted one (when the police were knocking on my door with a warrant obtained with, as my dear lawyer says "material misrepresentations, made knowingly or with reckless disregard for the truth."   However if I had had a gun and had shot them all, I'd now be in jail for capital murder, so it is damn good I didn't. 

Ever since, I just figure since I can have a gun but not use it when I need it, it is nothing but a piece of metal which provides a false sense of security.    Doesn't mean I am not concerned about other people's constitutional rights, because I am.  But I am more concerned with 1, 4, 5 and 6 than I am with 2.  Oddly enough I'm not at all concerned with 3 at the moment, but I betcha if the government decided they wanted to quarter troops in my house they'd have no compunction about doing it.



Lynnxz -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:38:13 PM)

Hence the more or less part. ;) The less is why I currently don't have a car stereo, or glove compartment cover. (Who steals those? :( )



philosophy -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:38:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

[8|]

I'll remember your wisdom next time I get bored playing with mommy and daddy's money and go out trying to start some drama.

OR

It could be that shit happens, and that it might be a good idea to be more or less prepared. [:D]



...good for you. You may also want to add some reading comprehension to that list of things to do. Come on to fora where things are debated from multiple points of view and you may want to be more or less prepared for that too.......



ModeratorEleven -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:38:37 PM)

Folks, please don't let this degenerate into the same childish nonsense that these threads usually generate.  You won't like where you end up.

Thank you.



Lynnxz -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:41:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

[8|]

I'll remember your wisdom next time I get bored playing with mommy and daddy's money and go out trying to start some drama.

OR

It could be that shit happens, and that it might be a good idea to be more or less prepared. [:D]



...good for you. You may also want to add some reading comprehension to that list of things to do. Come on to fora where things are debated from multiple points of view and you may want to be more or less prepared for that too.......


Bah, sorry, was not directed towards you, but rule. I used fast reply, but thought you had an interesting point.



celticlord2112 -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:42:48 PM)

quote:

but in fairness safety isn't the real reason why gun ownership in the USA is so fiercely protected. It's a cultural artefact.

"Safety" is a wonderful canard in the gun control debate, mainly because it only exists to the extent people take steps to protect themselves.  Without personal--read individual--responsibility, safety is a fiction (and a damned dangerous one at that).

With personal responsibility, the right to keep and bear arms is not an issue.



philosophy -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:43:43 PM)

...ahh, fair enough. That fast reply thing gets us all into trouble at one point or another......



philosophy -> RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us (11/29/2008 12:50:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

"Safety" is a wonderful canard in the gun control debate, mainly because it only exists to the extent people take steps to protect themselves. 


........where we (often) differ is on the how and why people change the world - as individuals or as a a society. The list published above suggests that gun ownership per se does not mitigate against gun crime. In fact it suggests that when only criminals hold guns then gun crime goes down. It could be argued that in places like the UK and Australia the people, via their government, took steps to protect themselves by banning the things.
i know, i know.....in your view government is the root of all evil. You are entitled to your opinion. However i am just pointing out that other people have other opinions regarding that issue. Once again, just to be clear, i don't advocate gun control in the USA. i see it as a cultural artefact. The increased gun crime rate that appears to be a part of that is probably unavoidable........but there are prices to everything. That's the USA's price to pay.



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