RE: Bitter much? (Full Version)

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OneMoreWaste -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 5:00:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer
Just to offer a little perspective - I know I've felt a bit bitter in the past, though I never wrote about it. I don't see it so much as being unable to manipulate a situation, but a loss of hope.


Yeah, I didn't agree with the OP's assessment either. I kinda personify the bitter submale, but it's really more a reaction to major depression than anything else.

And don't forget, we can also claim bitterness at being automatically assumed to be a wanker/time-waster/loser, have unrealistic expectations, live in a fantasy world, be obsessed with my penis, consider submission to be entirely sexual, be emotionally immature, and all the other fun stuff that's come up just on this thread [8|]

But for CDN, if you feel inclined to let it out, just create another profile or two with some fake information and let 'er rip. *Way* cheaper than therapy. [:)] Then you can keep it separate from all the actual talky-meety stuff.



Lockit -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 5:08:22 PM)

God... I think we all need to remember where we are. lol  We all have a bitch or a rant at some point and with good reason a lot of the time.  Justifying ourselves is becoming tedious. lol Rant, rant... bitch, bitch... I hope I am done.

Basically if people will respect one another, they will be accepted a lot better and won't have much to bitch about.  To carry our bitch for too long tends to prove the point of the other side of the bitch correct in assuming/thinking there is more than a momentary irritation.



stella41b -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 5:31:14 PM)

This thread is starting to make me laugh.

I agree with what Lockit above says that yes, we can whine, bitch, and let those negative feelings out.

However the justification from my perspective looks quite ridiculous because of the men vs. women undertone of many of the posts where comments are being made towards one gender in particular.

Maybe some of us would like to stop and wonder why this is happening.

I don't see this as a men vs. women thing, but something which affects all of us at some point, irrespective of who we are. Hence my posting (posting 48) was specifically gender-neutral.



slavekal -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 5:55:51 PM)

Hey, Jen.  I have had negative and positive experiences.  Negative is when people jerk you around with endless emails, make dates and don't show, or claim not to be a pro but ask for money.
Positive is when she is honest, has little or nothing to hide, is up front about what she wants and what she expects, and she wears hot shoes. 
You pitched my book!  How sweet of you.  You is the best!



sub4mistressinnj -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 6:30:05 PM)

I have wrote people on here, and all of what I wrote was intelligent, well thought out emails - I made it a point to spell and be as tactful as possible - and 99% of the time, I was ignored (my message not even read in some cases), was hit up for tribute with no mention of it on their profiles (or else I wouldn't have contacted them at all), or the "woman" behind the profile was a scammer and/or porn bot trying to sell me a subscription service to a cam site. The 1% that did respond back in a favorable manner, were either not looking or they lived too far away

. I wouldn't say that I am bitter, but now I know not to expect to meet anyone using this site. Also, I see a lot of women who complain about their experiences here and they are never called "bitter" when they do it. So is it really bad when "we" do it?



BoiJen -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 6:32:26 PM)

Kal,

You have some great advice in the book and given my motivation to write this thread I thought it would apply to go ahead and add it to my sig. Some points you make in the book I think really apply to some of the feelings that CDN mentioned in his post. Your book brings up specific points in how to be appealing to a Domme while keeping your own space and I think for some that keeping your own space bit is hard. And from potential pressure to give in, whether it be not to pay $$ or the be specific about other types of boundaries, some guys come off as brash or bitter and you deal with those types of things while being attractive to Dommes. It's pretty cool in my opinion. (PS Happy holidays to you and MsM! We're having a moving sale/get together thing on the 13th if either of you are interested you know where we are...10-4pm...I sent out a post to the major yahoo groups in the area about the details)

Stella, I mentioned in one of my posts here that I geared this thread to the general audience of this forum...FemDomme/male s-type. And frequently no matter who is where..I hear a lot of bitching and bitterness from the s-type side of things. This may make me critical and no longer invited to the s-types table during te holidays but fuck it...it's the observation I've made. I've also asked the guys who read and comment here to talk about how they feel when they get told their "bitter" because of a comment or thread they've made or started. So yeah this thread is geared a particular way...and I've made opion on the subject clear. Now if it's just been this disproportionate number of posts recently on this forum that have lead me to a misconception of what's happening, I'd like to see the stuff that would point out what I'm missing. I'm not stating things are one way or another...just what i've observed.




PeonForHer -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 6:49:31 PM)

I've also asked the guys who read and comment here to talk about how they feel when they get told their "bitter" because of a comment or thread they've made or started.

Now if it's just been this disproportionate number of posts recently on this forum that have lead me to a misconception of what's happening, I'd like to see the stuff that would point out what I'm missing. I'm not stating things are one way or another
 
Sorry, Boijen,  I thought I was clear in what I said about my own case, anyway.  You said that I walked a fine line between 'being bitter and being cool' - but you didn't give any evidence.  I told you then that it's important not to be prejudiced about you what you see as prejudices.  That, to me, is what you're missing.

To be more specific: I'm saying that you've got to demonstrate why you think people are being bitter with evidence - otherwise all you're doing is speaking with through your own prejudices.  You did state your position on one side versus the other, there.   For instance, could you now tell me, with evidence, how you come to believe that I "walk a fine line between 'being bitter and being cool' ?



AlexandraLynch -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 6:51:35 PM)

I just think a lot of guys sometimes think a little more with the small head than the big one on certain issues. It's not that they can't think with the big one, but it's not the default response.

These guys KNOW they won't get anywhere if they walk up to a woman in public and say "Wanna fuck?" I am not sure why they try it on here. The stakes are greater, and you'd think...yeah, well. There doesn't seem to be thinking going on in these emails. I do try to respond to everything I get. But frequently it's hard to be nice when the email is rude, disrespectful (and not in the sense that I'm a dominant, but in the sense of basic courtesy), and clearly the person hasn't bothered to read my profile at all and see what we're looking for. Give nice and intelligent, and eventually it will be noticed by those of us who are only a bitch two days a month. (grin) (And I do try not to take that out on people.)




BoiJen -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 6:54:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4mistressinnj

I have wrote people on here, and all of what I wrote was intelligent, well thought out emails - I made it a point to spell and be as tactful as possible - and 99% of the time, I was ignored (my message not even read in some cases), was hit up for tribute with no mention of it on their profiles (or else I wouldn't have contacted them at all), or the "woman" behind the profile was a scammer and/or porn bot trying to sell me a subscription service to a cam site. The 1% that did respond back in a favorable manner, were either not looking or they lived too far away

. I wouldn't say that I am bitter, but now I know not to expect to meet anyone using this site


So, you've adjusted your expectations of what this site has to offer? How do you feel about this as an individual who signedup on a site that gears itself as "the Largest BDSM Community in the world"?



DesFIP -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 7:47:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I've also asked the guys who read and comment here to talk about how they feel when they get told their "bitter" because of a comment or thread they've made or started.

Now if it's just been this disproportionate number of posts recently on this forum that have lead me to a misconception of what's happening, I'd like to see the stuff that would point out what I'm missing. I'm not stating things are one way or another
 
Sorry, Boijen,  I thought I was clear in what I said about my own case, anyway.  You said that I walked a fine line between 'being bitter and being cool' - but you didn't give any evidence.  I told you then that it's important not to be prejudiced about you what you see as prejudices.  That, to me, is what you're missing.

To be more specific: I'm saying that you've got to demonstrate why you think people are being bitter with evidence - otherwise all you're doing is speaking with through your own prejudices.  You did state your position on one side versus the other, there.   For instance, could you now tell me, with evidence, how you come to believe that I "walk a fine line between 'being bitter and being cool' ?


Beyond that I found it interesting that the OP didn't ask why male subs are bitter but instead started with the prejudiced decision/closed mind that it was entirely due to them being manipulative. Especially fascinating due to the responses received which overwhelmingly point to frustration.



BoiJen -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 7:53:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I've also asked the guys who read and comment here to talk about how they feel when they get told their "bitter" because of a comment or thread they've made or started.

Now if it's just been this disproportionate number of posts recently on this forum that have lead me to a misconception of what's happening, I'd like to see the stuff that would point out what I'm missing. I'm not stating things are one way or another
 
Sorry, Boijen,  I thought I was clear in what I said about my own case, anyway.  You said that I walked a fine line between 'being bitter and being cool' - but you didn't give any evidence.  I told you then that it's important not to be prejudiced about you what you see as prejudices.  That, to me, is what you're missing.

To be more specific: I'm saying that you've got to demonstrate why you think people are being bitter with evidence - otherwise all you're doing is speaking with through your own prejudices.  You did state your position on one side versus the other, there.   For instance, could you now tell me, with evidence, how you come to believe that I "walk a fine line between 'being bitter and being cool' ?


Beyond that I found it interesting that the OP didn't ask why male subs are bitter but instead started with the prejudiced decision/closed mind that it was entirely due to them being manipulative. Especially fascinating due to the responses received which overwhelmingly point to frustration.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
S-types reading...if you have made the complaint before, what would a positive experience look like in regard to having this conversation ( and don't say..."them not expecting x, y, and z")? Are these Ladies really expecting too much from common motrals such as ourselves?


I'm osrry if I wasn't specific enough in that original post to say "How does that make you feel?" Maybe my line of questioning wasn't direct enough for you...but CDN seemed to get the nature of the conversation...again I really value what he added to this cnversation in way of insight. Rather than criticising the thread and how things were worded...I'd really like to see other s-types respond in such an honest way about how they feel. That was kinda the point. Ladies talk about how they feel in these types of situations and s-types talk about how they feel in these types of situations...



BoiJen -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 8:04:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Sorry, Boijen,  I thought I was clear in what I said about my own case, anyway.  You said that I walked a fine line between 'being bitter and being cool' - but you didn't give any evidence.  I told you then that it's important not to be prejudiced about you what you see as prejudices.  That, to me, is what you're missing.

To be more specific: I'm saying that you've got to demonstrate why you think people are being bitter with evidence - otherwise all you're doing is speaking with through your own prejudices.  You did state your position on one side versus the other, there.   For instance, could you now tell me, with evidence, how you come to believe that I "walk a fine line between 'being bitter and being cool' ?


I'd mention the thread where you were specifically told your opions and comments were not only not needed...but not welcome. You responded as if your ego had been more than a little bruised. Things get interpreted over the internet when there is no inflection or body laguage to read along with the words being presented.

And if ya go back and read through my posts...I'll state again I've already let my opion be known on this subject...I'm not going around stating my opinion as fact...just my opinion.



Lockit -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 9:05:25 PM)

WOW!  Someone on a thread that was not wanted or needed on an open forum???  I remember that thread.  Very interesting indeed.



CdnExplorer -> RE: Bitter much? (12/1/2008 9:38:37 PM)

I just want to add for any other guys reading this that BoiJen is right about the value in responding with the way that you honestly feel. Recently I had a bit of a conflict-ridden weekend with the Domme I'm seeing, due to a whole bunch of stressful situations converging. Things kept getting worse until I was finally able to talk about how I was feeling, rather than simply acting on how I was feeling. I was kinda screwing up a bit, but being straightforward and honest about the negative feelings I was having seemed to result on it all being forgiven.

I think as guys we're trained pretty hard to not talk like that. I know it was incredibly diffcult for me to do, but I'm glad I found my way into it.



PeonForHer -> RE: Bitter much? (12/2/2008 3:06:14 AM)

I'd mention the thread where you were specifically told your opions and comments were not only not needed...but not welcome. You responded as if your ego had been more than a little bruised.

Yes, I remember the thread in question.  I, and quite vast numbers of others, responded to it.  They felt that it was wrong for a certain (large) section of people to be 'told that their comments are not needed and not welcomed'.   However it wasn't my ego, so much as my senses of fairness, reason and democracy, that were bruised.  I do remember the bitterness from those few who found that incomprehensible, though.



ShaktiSama -> RE: Bitter much? (12/2/2008 5:47:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

But for CDN, if you feel inclined to let it out, just create another profile or two with some fake information and let 'er rip. *Way* cheaper than therapy. [:)] Then you can keep it separate from all the actual talky-meety stuff.



Just as an aside, if I ever found out that a man I was involved with had created a "Troll Profile" as per your suggestion I would terminate all contact with him. That goes all the way down to the level of kicking him out of the house and throwing his crap out the window while he stands on the lawn.

Really, really, really despise trolls.



ShaktiSama -> RE: Bitter much? (12/2/2008 6:03:18 AM)

Realizing I had not specifically answered the questions that were asked in the beginning:

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

Ladies, when approachng, or being approached, by these types of individuals, how do you feel?


Honest truth? I'm repulsed and disgusted. Having a generally bad attitude and laying it on a person you've never met is the emotional equivalent of having B.O. or horribly putrid breath. It's a sign that you do not have enough self-respect to take care of your mental hygiene on your own and you do not have enough respect for ME to spare me the stench.

quote:

What would a positive encounter by someone who has a legit complaint look like?


I have met some abused people in my life and known many subs, both male and female, who had genuine horror stories to tell. Sometimes its pretty obvious when a bad attitude is just a thin layer of bravado over an ocean of hurt. Such people are easy to spot, and their "bitterness" tends to vanish in a heartbeat when you offer even a shred of real human sympathy.

quote:

Does this type of complint make you wonder about your approach at all? Is there any legitimacy behind these complaints?


People who know me and are very close to me could probably make some legitimate criticisms or have respect-worthy complaints about me. Total strangers who seem to have mistaken me for the every other dominant woman on the face of earth, because they think that everything with ovaries and a mean streak on this planet is interchangeable? Uh...No.

Men like this make me more inclined to doubt the value of D/S relationships than anything else.



OneMoreWaste -> RE: Bitter much? (12/2/2008 6:09:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama


quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

But for CDN, if you feel inclined to let it out, just create another profile or two with some fake information and let 'er rip. *Way* cheaper than therapy. [:)] Then you can keep it separate from all the actual talky-meety stuff.



Just as an aside, if I ever found out that a man I was involved with had created a "Troll Profile" as per your suggestion I would terminate all contact with him. That goes all the way down to the level of kicking him out of the house and throwing his crap out the window while he stands on the lawn.

Really, really, really despise trolls.


Troll? There's a difference between venting and trolling. The things I post with this profile are far more honest than most; certainly more open than *I'd* be with any profile I might use to try to actually attract a Domme.
Not that I can claim to be entirely innocent of trolling, but I bet if you take a long look at it, you'll have to admit to yourself that there are folks on this site that are really, really asking for it [;)]



ShaktiSama -> RE: Bitter much? (12/2/2008 6:30:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OneMoreWaste

Troll? There's a difference between venting and trolling. The things I post with this profile are far more honest than most; certainly more open than *I'd* be with any profile I might use to try to actually attract a Domme.


Yeah, I'm sure the things you post with this profile are as unattractive as they are honest--that's how it works with honestly unattractive people.

quote:

Not that I can claim to be entirely innocent of trolling, but I bet if you take a long look at it, you'll have to admit to yourself that there are folks on this site that are really, really asking for it [;)]


You mean like pathetic passive-aggressive creeps whose main claim to superiority is that they married someone they had no business marrying because they were too weak and lazy to make themselves worthy and fight for the kind of relationship that would actually give them some pleasure and joy in life? Nasty little sour-grape wannabe's who make up a troll profile so they can hang around and whine and bitch and take pot-shots about people who actually have the stones to walk the walk, talk the talk and live the live in real time? Jerks who complain about how hard-done-by and abused they are, because dominant women who have the courage and strength to be themselves in a cold and unwelcoming world have no use and no sympathy for submissive men who can't be arsed to do the same?

Yeah, those guys are asking for it, all right.

Three words, pal: boo freakin' hoo. Poor little you.



thetammyjo -> RE: Bitter much? (12/2/2008 7:09:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CdnExplorer

I just want to add for any other guys reading this that BoiJen is right about the value in responding with the way that you honestly feel. Recently I had a bit of a conflict-ridden weekend with the Domme I'm seeing, due to a whole bunch of stressful situations converging. Things kept getting worse until I was finally able to talk about how I was feeling, rather than simply acting on how I was feeling. I was kinda screwing up a bit, but being straightforward and honest about the negative feelings I was having seemed to result on it all being forgiven.

I think as guys we're trained pretty hard to not talk like that. I know it was incredibly diffcult for me to do, but I'm glad I found my way into it.



It's a very useful skill to have but it isn't limited to men. I had a very hard time of expressing my feelings for most of my life until I had been in therapy for a while. It helped a lot though there are still times I find myself holding things in and I must make myself let them out or risk an explosion. Early training is very difficult to overcome.



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