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What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 8:40:39 AM

OrionTheWolf

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The lawlessness in Somalia spills out into neighboring countries and into international areas. The country has been in a civil war for 2 decades and there is still no end in sight. So what are the options for containing what is occuring in Somalia?

" NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) — Pirates chased and shot at a U.S. cruise liner with more than 1,000 people on board but failed to hijack the vessel as it sailed along a corridor patrolled by international warships, a maritime official said Tuesday. "

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gB7YMEDuCwwY9ncDOtPAkEI4-H2wD94QKL7O0

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 8:50:51 AM

camille65

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I was reading about the hostages that had recently been let go and I wondered... would the US have paid the ransom and what would have happened if it hadn't been paid?

There has been an awful lot of money paid to pirates over the last year. The areas are so immense, making it truly problematic when trying to patrol everywhere.

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 8:55:08 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

...So what are the options for containing what is occuring in Somalia?...

mount and man cannons on the cruise ships, sink the pirate vessels and make the captured pirates walk the plank...

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 8:56:35 AM

Rule

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Those ransoms may be the way the West surreptitiously finances some of the warring factions.

< Message edited by Rule -- 12/2/2008 9:47:27 AM >

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 9:02:47 AM

OrionTheWolf

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That is not too far off base in my opinion, to take care of the symptom. I tend to think that the cause of the problem needs to be addressed, but how and what is the actual cause of the problem?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...So what are the options for containing what is occuring in Somalia?...

mount and man cannons on the cruise ships, sink the pirate vessels and make the captured pirates walk the plank...

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 9:10:07 AM

kdsub

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Two things..first tell the African Union that unless they act to stabilize Somalia we..meaning the US and our allies...will withhold all aid to every union country.

If this does not work send in a Marine division...destroy all the small boats kill as many as possible then set off the coast for a few years in case we need to do it again. DON"T occupy and try to change their way of thinking..just kill them...After awhile they will find other professions.

Butch

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 9:18:59 AM

popeye1250

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We shouldn't be giving them "aid" anyway!
Put 2 or 3 decoy ships in the area, "easy targets" with Sailors and Marines onboard and when they attempt to hijack them lay down withering fire and blow their asses right out of the water!
A month or two of "dissapearing pirates" and maybe they'll figure it out.

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 9:22:42 AM

kittinSol

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A good start would be to stop pillaging fish and other natural resources off the coast from one of the poorest countries on the planet.

PS: just a suggestion, since the question is to address the root of the problem.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 12/2/2008 9:24:12 AM >

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 9:31:57 AM

RealityLicks

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Two things..first tell the African Union that unless they act to stabilize Somalia we..meaning the US and our allies...will withhold all aid to every union country.

If this does not work send in a Marine division...destroy all the small boats kill as many as possible then set off the coast for a few years in case we need to do it again. DON"T occupy and try to change their way of thinking..just kill them...After awhile they will find other professions.

Butch

Butch, I'm curious. Why do you think that the US should be taking any action at all to protect private companies' property?

As to the suggestion that the whole African Union should be penalised, even those countries thousands of miles away, isn't that a collective punishment on innocent people and extremely morally dubious?

Andd why aren't US Marines to be used against the foreign trawlers which illegally fish Somali waters?

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 9:34:12 AM

RealityLicks

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Put 2 or 3 decoy ships in the area, "easy targets" with Sailors and Marines onboard and when they attempt to hijack them lay down withering fire and blow their asses right out of the water!
A month or two of "dissapearing pirates" and maybe they'll figure it out.

Would you have also advocated the UK carpet bombing Northern Ireland in response to repeated IRA atrocities?

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 9:35:02 AM

kittinSol

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Why can we find crucial information, and not them, Licks?

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 9:35:33 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

So what are the options for containing what is occuring in Somalia?

Put a 20mm minigun on all ships crossing Somali waters.

Pirates vs 3000 rounds per minute....

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 9:37:31 AM

RealityLicks

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That thought may have crossed my mind, gorgeous but I thought I'd wait for the responses before going there.

edit:

Just to be clear; I haven't taken to calling CL "gorgeous" - I was talking to kittinSol. Tho' I'm sure his mother thinks he cuts quite the dash.

< Message edited by RealityLicks -- 12/2/2008 9:45:45 AM >

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 9:52:28 AM

kittinSol

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Best thing I've heard is that Blackwater have offered their 'services' in the area. Now, that's progress.

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 9:59:45 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ot too far off base in my opinion, to take care of the symptom. I tend to think that the cause of the problem needs to be addressed, but how and what is the actual cause of the problem?

The "cause" is a people out of step with the times.

Somalia is and has always been a tribal society--not unlike Afghanistan and to a certain extent Iraq. The nation's borders are a geopolitical artifice and not much more than that. The pirates are very likely latter-day hunters in the eyes of their countrymen.

Whatever solutions are imposed to curtail the piracy will only work if they acknowledge the tribal reality that is Somalia. Military solutions will only work if the nations imposing that option are prepared to more or less police the country indefinitely.

Arming ships that cross Somali waters may be the best as well as least costly option, if only because it is sustainable in the long term

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 10:00:17 AM

RealityLicks

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Shipping firms are seemingly comfortable with paying the occasional ransom... it's cheaper. Unless you meant Blackater were going to protect the fish stocks although somehow that seems unlikely.

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 10:15:36 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Two things..first tell the African Union that unless they act to stabilize Somalia we..meaning the US and our allies...will withhold all aid to every union country.

If this does not work send in a Marine division...destroy all the small boats kill as many as possible then set off the coast for a few years in case we need to do it again. DON"T occupy and try to change their way of thinking..just kill them...After awhile they will find other professions.

Butch

Butch, I'm curious. Why do you think that the US should be taking any action at all to protect private companies' property?

As to the suggestion that the whole African Union should be penalised, even those countries thousands of miles away, isn't that a collective punishment on innocent people and extremely morally dubious?

Andd why aren't US Marines to be used against the foreign trawlers which illegally fish Somali waters?

I wonder if you realize the cost we would all pay if we failed to protect the free passage of people and goods in that area? Yes… protecting this free passage is the business of all maritime nations.

Either we have to police Africa or they do…not one is innocent if they allow piracy off their coasts. So yes they are responsible even if thousands of miles away…they are a lot closer then we are.

Foreign trawlers which illegally fish Somali waters is not the reason for this piracy…it is plain and simple greed on the part of the warlords. I blame no one but the people of Somalia themselves for allowing these petty thieves to rule them. They either agree with them or they’re too fearful to confront them…either way it is their fault.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/2/2008 10:17:16 AM >

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 10:21:51 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Shipping firms are seemingly comfortable with paying the occasional ransom... it's cheaper. Unless you meant Blackater were going to protect the fish stocks although somehow that seems unlikely.

It's just weird that Blackwater are offering to provide mercenaries to fight... pirates.

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 10:25:01 AM

OrionTheWolf

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How would this help with stability and eliminating piracy? Not that it should not be done, just that I do not see the connection between the two.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

A good start would be to stop pillaging fish and other natural resources off the coast from one of the poorest countries on the planet.

PS: just a suggestion, since the question is to address the root of the problem.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: What to do about piracy and Somalia? - 12/2/2008 10:37:54 AM

kittinSol

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Somali pirates tell their side.

When there's lawlessness, desperation and hunger, you could argue that men have to do what they have to do... and that they'd be spineless sheep for letting others dictate that they should starve and stay humble.

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