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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 5:22:10 PM

kiwisub12

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Hehe - yes, morning breath and farts - got to love them!

and its just greedy to hog the remote! and i should know - ours is firmly in the grasp of Sir!

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 5:23:45 PM

persephonee

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mah point exactly m'lady....have fun watching NASCAR and the frickin Hallmark channel....the only bonus i see there is they tend to cry during the saddest dying of cancer with no shoes to wear parts....tis cute.

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 5:34:35 PM

porcelain26

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

I think we are experiential beings. You could see an online relationship as equivalent to someone who is missing a "sense" ie blind or deaf. Someone blind or deaf can still have a full life, a deliriously happy life (the remaining senses they have to work with may even be heightened) but the fact remains, there is an element missing that effects their experiencing and living...so too with online relationships.

I absolutely love the way you explain this!

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 5:41:25 PM

porcelain26

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Mercnbeth -

Once again, this thread isn't about me or the way that anyone has perceived my relationship.

I can't express how happy I am for you and your girl that you share that kind of connection, love, and respect for one another. It is a rare thing to be certain and it's obvious that you treasure it highly. I simply believe that some people can feel those same emotions about relationships that aren't r/t, as difficult, confusing, and risky as that may be.

Once again, I could easily argue your exact point, because the fact of the matter is that I agree with you in the sense that r/t makes maintaining a relationship expoentially less complicated than online does. This is NOT to say that r/t relationships don't take an incredible amount of work, because I think we all know that they do.

I asked a question and you've given your answer....from here, I think we'll just have to agree that we both hold strong opinions *grins*

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 5:42:52 PM

lusciouslips19

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Well whats the point of asking for opinions when the only ones appreciated are the ones in agreement with our own?

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 5:57:23 PM

porcelain26

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

Porcelain,

I don't mean to discount anyones feelings. I know how real online relationships can be. But in those relationships and also when you speak of the reasons why you are in a relationship with a married man, all I can think is that you are selling yourself short. You deserve someone who makes you a priority. No one else makes you feel like he does? Well you were 17 and this is 10 years. How many opportunities have you opened yourself up to for a real in the flesh man who can be there for you 24/7? You dont know because you have not made yourself available. Are you willing to give up marriage and children and the house and all those fantasies to stay with a married master? You deserve the happy ending. I hate to see such a lovely beautiful young woman wasting her life away in wait. Not because i have a right to tell you what to do or how to feel. But I do know that one has to release and feel the pain of the end of an unhealthy relationship to create a space for something better to come along.

No one will ever convince me that they would rather be in an online relationship than a real relationship that is nurturing to both. Its called Settling. Just my 2 cents because it makes me so sad.

I know you've read my profile, so you must know that my relationship hasn't been monogamous by any means. I have opened myself up several times to several different people, because my Owner feels a lot like you do: That if I have a chance to have a 24/7-live in-long term-marriage-white picket fence-three kids-with-the-dog relationship, then I should take it, if that's what's going to make me happy. The fact of the matter is that I have NOT found that with anyone, and I am NOT willing to leave my Owner (who does make me happy) in the hope that maybe I might find it. If it comes along, I'll address the situation then; if it doesn't, it doesn't.

My relationship with my Owner is very, very complicated and I don't know that I could explain it in terms that would make sense to anyone other than ourselves. What matters to me is that He cares for me deeply, He wants to see me happy and successful (and is more than willing to help me achieve those objectives in any way that He can), and He understands me. He fits me, and I fit Him. That's what I'm concerned about....why would I give that up so that I can cross my fingers and hope something 'better' comes along? I'm not saying that I don't want to get married or have kids...I'd be lying if I said that. But I also don't believe for one second that I'm selling myself short in any way by being with Him. He makes me a better person by being in my life.

I really do understand your sentiment about r/t and online relationships...I just don't think that one is necessarily a more valid expression than the other. Is that sometimes the case....sure. But that can go in either direction.

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 7:52:25 PM

lusciouslips19

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quote:

I know you've read my profile, so you must know that my relationship hasn't been monogamous by any means. I have opened myself up several times to several different people, because my Owner feels a lot like you do: That if I have a chance to have a 24/7-live in-long term-marriage-white picket fence-three kids-with-the-dog relationship, then I should take it, if that's what's going to make me happy. The fact of the matter is that I have NOT found that with anyone, and I am NOT willing to leave my Owner (who does make me happy) in the hope that maybe I might find it. If it comes along, I'll address the situation then; if it doesn't, it doesn't.

My relationship with my Owner is very, very complicated and I don't know that I could explain it in terms that would make sense to anyone other than ourselves. What matters to me is that He cares for me deeply, He wants to see me happy and successful (and is more than willing to help me achieve those objectives in any way that He can), and He understands me. He fits me, and I fit Him. That's what I'm concerned about....why would I give that up so that I can cross my fingers and hope something 'better' comes along? I'm not saying that I don't want to get married or have kids...I'd be lying if I said that. But I also don't believe for one second that I'm selling myself short in any way by being with Him. He makes me a better person by being in my life.

I really do understand your sentiment about r/t and online relationships...I just don't think that one is necessarily a more valid expression than the other. Is that sometimes the case....sure. But that can go in either direction.

No strong Dom worth his salt is going to want a taken submissive. They have egos. The ones looking for something real are not going to stand waiting for approval from someones master. Dominants want to be first and not second in your life. So yes, even though you are open to play you really are not leaving yourself open to the ones seeking a deeper relationship.

The fact of the matter is that people often repeat patterns of disfunction over and over again. They pick the same unfulfilling or abusive relationships that give them an "at home" feeling. Therapy is sometimes needed to figure out why we stand in the way of ourselves or why we fall for the unavailable or the "bad boy". Or why keep attracting someone who has addictions like mom or dad or make us feel ignored like mom or dad.

I have a friend, shes a loser magnet. They have been alcoholics or living with mom and no job. A string of them. She came from a divorced home where she did not see her father. So she stayed with these bad men striving for their affection and taking care and enabling them. She always stayed too long. So in the end she never married like she wanted to and never had the children like she wanted to. She was very jealous and bitter for a long time. However, it was of her own creation.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 12/3/2008 7:59:03 PM >

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 8:06:47 PM

CalifChick

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It seems, and I could be wrong, that the people that are arguing the strongest FOR online relationships are not in online relationships, but in long-distance relationships where they have in fact met. Wonder why that is. Where are all the people that have never met the other person in their online relationship?

Cali

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 8:34:54 PM

porcelain26

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

It seems, and I could be wrong, that the people that are arguing the strongest FOR online relationships are not in online relationships, but in long-distance relationships where they have in fact met. Wonder why that is. Where are all the people that have never met the other person in their online relationship?

Hahaha...Cali, you rock.

I think, for me, I'm just disappointed by some of the replies I've seen lately in other threads. It's very disturbing to me to be part of a community which is notorious for it's 'unconventional' relationships, yet which is so harsh to people in one specific type of unconventional relationship.

When someone makes a thread on these forums and it's about some kind of problem or concern they're having in their relationship, if I respond, I try to do it with as much kindness and compassion as I can. I don't reserve my sympathies exclusively for those in r/t relationships, nor do I reserve it soley for those in online relationships. I'm keenly aware of the feelings involved in both types, and so I try to approach both with the same level of compassion.

Sure, I get frustrated with those who are in a blissful, one week long, relationship and suddenly flip because of some "small slight". But I've known plenty of people in r/t situations who do the exact same thing. The 'velcro collar' applies just as readily to r/t as it does to online. But I'm willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt, because I know that it hurts my feelings when someone dismisses my concerns simply because they don't agree with my lifestyle choice.

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 8:50:39 PM

sweetNsassyPGH

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Quick Reply

I think we are experiential beings. You could see an online relationship as equivalent to someone who is missing a "sense" ie blind or deaf. Someone blind or deaf can still have a full life, a deliriously happy life (the remaining senses they have to work with may even be heightened) but the fact remains, there is an element missing that effects their experiencing and living...so too with online relationships.

**corrected typo's

There are other senses besides the usual 5 that we all think of... For those of us who more familiar with energy work, with intuition, with creative visualization, with guided imagery, online interactions can have a different kind of depth and intensity... Yes, it IS different than being in actual physical contact... However, there is something very enriching about being able to connect with someone's energy force... with their intent and their drive...

I have "felt" my former Dom be with me... I have felt his energy... his excitement or his sadness... his sense of free spirit on some days... and his stressful heavy mind on other days... Even before he told me how he was feeling, I could sense it... And he could "feel" me... Our ability to connect on an energy level deepened and intensified our communications... We were usually on the same page... typing the same things to each other... writing similiar emails to each other... and thinking the same fantasies... without having discussed these things before...

If I had limited myself to my local BDSM community, I would have missed out on so many relationships and friendships that I have enjoyed online... Plus my local BDSM community seems to be lacking single, straight, monogamous Male Doms... LOL..

I do agree that often the other person has created an online persona that differs from their real time, day in, day out, personality... Sometimes the connection is only online... sometimes its much better in real time...

For ME, since I need intellectual discourse... discussions... probing, curious, in depth verbal echanges... if the other person has good writing skills, can create vivid images with words, can project his thoughts and feelings into an energy exchange, then I can get quite connected with an online interaction...

That doesnt always mean a match made in heaven though...LOL.. Like me, often if the person writes well and interacts well online, they may be quite shy, reserved, introverted, inhibited in person... altering the real time interactions... Sometimes I prefer going back to the online dynamics because it works better...

I think that online can be as real... as valid... as honest... as dedicated... as any real time relationship... Just as people in person lie, deceive, present false personas, are shallow, online people CAN be real, truthful, deep, intense... As others have said, it depends on what each person brings to the online dynamic... what they want... what they are willing to share and give... how much of themselves they are willing to share...

Just MY thoughts and experiences with online...

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 10:43:57 PM

CookieSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
...but i have to wonder why anyone would deprive themselves of the joy of real time relationships.

I get that some people live where they can't find a compatible partner, and may be in a previously existing relationship that is not fulfilling, but why would the rest put themselves in a relationship that can't give them simple physical interactions with another? Is it fear of a relationship , of the potential of pain? I don't know, and quite honestly, i am glad i don't know.

Go back and look at most of the posts of the people that are in or have been in an online relationship, and I'm not sure that you'll see anybody saying "ya know.. I really just wanted to get into an online relationship." or "We don't intend to ever meet in person, we're just going to stay online.. " We don't always choose who we connect with. Personally, if I really hit it off with someone, I think I would be shortchanging myself if I terminated it before it even began, simply because of how we initially met! Really, since there is usually some plan of eventually meeting up and moving things offline, it appears to me that the vast majority of the "anti-onliners" actually have a problem with how the "onliners" BEGIN a relationship. Who are we to judge how someone's relationship begins??

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
I would hate to put myself out there emotionally to someone i can't really know, and as far as i can tell, people really get attached to their signifigant others. Maybe they are braver than me - i want to be sure that who i am having a relationship with , is real.

And see.. maybe your experiences have been different than mine, but there are no more certainties that someone is "real" whether you meet that person online or offline. Hell, my ex-fiance had a whole 2nd life he was living that no one knew about, but conversely, some of the most supportive and trustworthy friendships I've had have been with people I only know "online". There are no guarantees, and online or off isn't the determing factor of someone being "real".

Sorry kiwi, I don't mean to sound like I'm slamming you, I'm really not, I generally respect what you have to say. I just have a different viewpoint on this, that's all, and your words jumped out at me and I wanted to reply to them.

I guess I just understand where Porcelain is coming from. I am sensitive to it because I have had relationships that began or largely involved online, for various reasons(and no, it's not always our paralyzing fear of "real" relationships ;-) ) Personally, I try not to be judgemental about how someone maintains their relationship, even if I don't agree or I just don't get it, because I'm not in their shoes. But as Porcelain said, it seems that quite often I've seen someone mention "online" and before you know it, there's all the spewing about how it's not "real" and whatever the issue was is minimized as being "pretend" and "fake". I think it's unfair and insulting. If it's not your thing, great, that's fine and good, but belittling someone else's relationship because their path is different from your own is ridiculous and narrow. And this, from a community of people famous for functioning off the beaten path.. ?

--cs

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/3/2008 11:12:27 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

It seems, and I could be wrong, that the people that are arguing the strongest FOR online relationships are not in online relationships, but in long-distance relationships where they have in fact met. Wonder why that is. Where are all the people that have never met the other person in their online relationship?

Cali

Way back when I was a mere naive one, just learning about D/s, I was in a 3 year online relationship and we never met. Through hours on the phone, he added value to my life, and I added value to his. We are still friends to this day, 9 years later, and have never met - never made plans to. We had a weekend planned last month for a first meet, but work circumstances had us canceling it at the last minute. We're post-poning until after the holidays. I'm really looking forward to getting together with him after all these years. When my music collection was stolen, he put his on a DVD and sent it to me. When my laptop died and I couldn't replace it right away, he shipped me a spare of his. He sent me tickets to the symphony for my birthday. We talk about our lives, our jobs, and our loves, and everything in between.

Now, I'm not arguing FOR online only relationships. I would not find that to be completely satisfying. But I was in one, we never met (although we finally will), and I'm just posting an answer to your question. :)

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/4/2008 6:33:53 AM

Missokyst

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What would make it mean less to me is this one part highlighted below.
I was once .. and heck.. still in love with a man I met when I was 23. We lived more or less together for a year before he joined the navy and out relationship was that he was the boss, period.
Then he rejoined the navy.
During the next few years we had a letter/phone relationship. Both of us had our lives on the side. It was romantic coming together when he was in my area. It was loving to get letters, send cookies, ect. It felt great to be in love.
Well.. sort of.
He married his captains daughter 3 years into the Navy stint. But, we still kept in touch. Year 5, he married someone else.. year 8.. someone else, ect.
I think he has been married 5 times now. Maybe 6.
Over 25 yrs he and I have kept in touch. We even meet now and then and reconnect.
OURS is the perfect relationship.
I don't have to wake up to someone who smells like smoke.
I don't have to deal with toenail clippings. Grease under fingernails. I don't have to walk into a bathroom which is still smelly.
I get all the good.
We are still friends because in our short time together, it is all romance. In our comunication, it is just him and I.. two people who like one another and don't have to deal with the mundane.
I still love him, but it is not the same as what I had for my most recent X. That was day to day, in and out, bad and good, facing it without the comfort of distance.

For me, the difference in online vs real is being exposed to the bad, mundane, everyday boredom of life, or the adapting to habits which makes real a whole different experience. It is easier to maintain a 25 yr relationship when there is very little human habits to adjust to. Online.. is not enough reality for me.
I do still love Steve.. but I recognise that not having him in my life for more than romance is what kept me in love.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain26
whom I've belonged to for over 10 years. We have spent time together r/t, but the majority of our relationship has been constructed online. However, it doesn't feel any differently to me being in contact with Him online than it does being in contact with Him r/t....in other words, I feel just as owned by Him right now, 900 miles away from Him, as I do when I'm at His feet.

So....here is my query for all those wishing to respond. What, in your opinion or experience, makes an online relationship less valid than a r/t relationship?

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/4/2008 7:01:01 AM

phoenixrising43

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This is one of the most well written and well worded posts I have seen about online relationships. They don't work for me and probably never will, outside of the friendship level. But real life can also be a house of cards too. The longer you are kicking around in the local communities, the more you see relationships fail too.

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/4/2008 9:27:00 AM

kiwisub12

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cookie - i understand maintaining relationships online, i just don't get romantic relationships online - because for me a lot of the romance is about skin-to-skin contact. However, different strokes for different folks, and just because it does it for me, doesn't mean that everyone is hard wired that way.

It is just hard for me to wrap my brain around a fufilling relationship that involves no flesh. *sigh* I'm just funny that way.

Anyway - a relationship is a relationship if the two people involved in it say it is (not matter how weird i think it is), and there are some pretty weird ones on collarme. It would behove everyone to practise a little tact when "helping" those who post. The only reason i actually posted on this one the way i did was because the OP asked for info., and i was honest - if a bit incoherent.
I am firmly of the opinion of "don't ask, don't tell" - unless the OP is unhappy in a given situation, in which case i can let 'er rip.
hugs to all - virtually. lol.

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/4/2008 12:52:25 PM

KatyLied

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quote:

It is just hard for me to wrap my brain around a fufilling relationship that involves no flesh. *sigh* I'm just funny that way.

I am the same way. It would be difficult for me as I enjoy playing with all of the senses when I like someone enough to be invested in a relationship with him.

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/4/2008 1:56:14 PM

oceanwynds

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Personally, i will not do an on-line relationship. That was one of the first things Sir and I discussed, and we both agreed. He has done those in the past, but didn't want another one. We do not see each other as often as we wish, though that could be changing soon. When we are in a chat room, not Ds, i do call him Mr. ..and his screen name. We write emails a couple times a week, he dislikes emails period. I honor that.

Had a friend ,who I discovered was in a Ms relationship, who was totally in love and serving of her Master. It was an on-line relationship of 5 perhaps 6 years. She got hurt very badly with this one. I know of others who have had on-line relationships, with and without meeting their 'lover', and they normally turned out disasterous. I tend to be a risk taker, but if i see a common problem over and over, i will not leap into something that I know cannot benifit me. To many people on-line, imo, live delusional relationships. I also counsel a lot of people whose spouces were carrying on secret on-line affairs and had to help them get through the pain of being lied too. The trust etc was eliminated completely. These reasons alone make me skeptical of on-line relationships.

oceanwynds

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/4/2008 2:28:51 PM

Usako

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CookieSlave
Really, since there is usually some plan of eventually meeting up and moving things offline, it appears to me that the vast majority of the "anti-onliners" actually have a problem with how the "onliners" BEGIN a relationship.

Actually I don't care how a relationship begins. If it begins online and blossoms into something wonderful, good for the person. HOWEVER, it begins online and never moves off line then I would call it a waste of time. If it also begins online and takes eons to move off line (ie, two...three...four plus years) then I'd say it's a waste of time. I'd also label a relationship that you only get to see someone maybe once a month if you're lucky, a waste of time. But if someone has time to waste then whatever.

But it's only my personally opinion.

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/4/2008 3:13:33 PM

RainydayNE

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i think online relationships can be just as real as real time ones. they're just different
they take differents kinds of work, more work in some areas and less in others. but i think you CAN get to know someone that way.
my first relationship EVER started out that way =p we met up later down the road (had nothing to do with this site or "personals" at all) i don't think theres anything wrong with them.
i kinda wonder if meeting someone online in a place NOT geared towards dating makes any difference.

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RE: Online and Real Time - 12/6/2008 9:08:07 AM

CalifChick

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I heard a commercial on the radio yesterday for McDonalds, and it made me think of this thread. A guy is talking to his roommate, and you hear the roommate typing on his computer *clickety clack*, and you hear the computer chiming with new messages and whatnot, and the roommate says things like "oh, susie just commented on my picture and john commented on susie's comment." *clickety clack* The first guy is asking the roommate if he wants to go to McD's for breakfast, and you hear the computer beep and the roommate says, "oh! Bill just invited me to join a virtual breakfast club." *clickety clack* *clickety clack*

The first guy says something like, "umm, okayyyy, well if you want to have join a real breakfast club, we'll be at McDonalds."

That pretty much summed it up for me. I like my sausage mcmuffins hot and fresh, not virtual. LOL.

Cali

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