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Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 5:35:17 AM

alianora

Posts: 38
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I have a question that off hand seems to be pretty silly, but it’s been on my mind now ever since it was asked me.

I love to read. What’s more, I love to read anything, the genre itself matters little to me as long as the book is well written with a story line that catches and holds my attention.

I recently had a conversation with someone about books; books that we ‘preferred’ to read as opposed to books that we should read, I guess is a good way to describe it. Anyway, this person was shocked when I admitted that two of my favorite books were The Iliad and The Odyssey. When I asked why he was so shocked, he told me that because I was submissive, I should instead direct my reading interests towards books that ‘reflected my station’ in life ( I know, this kind of threw me also )

We debated back and forth for a bit the pro’s and con’s of proper reading material and I can say with honesty that I understand his position on this. That is not what has me shocked though. Several others, submissives and slaves included, have stated the same opinion to me.

So, I was wondering who else thought like this? And if you do, why?

Just out of curiosity is all.

Post #: 1

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 5:38:16 AM

mc1234

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I'm confused. Why would being a submissive narrow your choice of literature? Makes no sense to me. I'm submissive ... reading The Iliad isn't going to change that. Odd ...

(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 2

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 5:39:49 AM

alianora

Posts: 38
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc1234

I'm confused. Why would being a submissive narrow your choice of literature? Makes no sense to me. I'm submissive ... reading The Iliad isn't going to change that. Odd ...

Oh, I agree; though I do admit that his argument was a good one and I did understand why he thought the way he did. Like you though, I was confused and shocked when others stated the same argument.

(in reply to mc1234)

Post #: 3

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 5:41:43 AM

mc1234

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But what was his argument, his reasoning for this? How does a literature choice reflect my station? What is appropriate in his mind for submissives to read?

(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 4

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 5:42:00 AM

housesub4you

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I read what I feel like reading, it has nothing to do with being a sub or not. I also like the Iliad, reading expands the mind so much more than watching a movie or TV.

His being "shocked" seems a little overboard.

If you only read what reflects your "station" in life, then think how narrow your thoughts could be.

(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 5

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 5:42:10 AM

Rover

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Look, I'm all for folks doing whatever makes the most sense in their lives. But that doesn't mean that it can't sound silly to me. And it does.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 6

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 5:48:07 AM

greeneyedreamer

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Curious, how did they convince you his opinion was understandable? What was it that you understood, because right now I can't think of a thing that would lead me to that. As far as the other submissives, I would be curious to how many of those read much of anything. I will say, I am not an avid reader of books. I was at one time, that being said I am extremely educated (master's plus 60 odd graduate credits) and what one reads is to enlighten them. NEVER should anyone be held back from knowledge. I can see where they may think, knowledge is power and power is for doms, but that thinking is asinine, and twisted logic. Other than that, I can't imagine how you saw their point of view.

Education is one of the few things in life for which I will fight. And censorship in any capacity is wrong.
Dreamer

_____________________________

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I am still learning... Michelangelo, age 87

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(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 7

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 5:49:23 AM

alianora

Posts: 38
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc1234

But what was his argument, his reasoning for this? How does a literature choice reflect my station? What is appropriate in his mind for submissives to read?

His argument, and the others almost followed the same thinking; was that reading books that related to submission were more educational than reading books that did not. I am thinking that he came by this argument mainly because he asked how I came to understand that I was submissive and my response was that 'I grew into my understanding of myself' over the years. He stated that in order for me to completly understand, I needed to read books that related to this. Like I said, I disagree, but at the same time, I guess to his thinking it makes sense; and perhaps, for those who are still...searching? for themselves, it makes sense. In a strange sort of way.

It was not so much what he said that shocked me, it was more the fact that others stated the same thing...it got me wondering if 'a lot' of people thought the same way and if they did, why. What led them to this belief that reading a certain book is more educatonal than reading something that a person enjoyed just for that.

(in reply to mc1234)

Post #: 8

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 5:51:03 AM

Aneirin

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From: Tamaris
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Reading, reading anything broadens the mind and educates, who is to say what anyone should read, the fact that someone in this age of electronica actually picks up a book and reads should be commended.

And of course those that label themselves dominant, who is to say they have an intellect, the label certainly does not suggest intellect, just dominance.

In fact, many subs I know are actually better educated than dominants I know and more articulate due to their constant and wide ranging education.

Ha, if someone tells me to do something, I do the opposite.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to mc1234)

Post #: 9

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 5:52:55 AM

mc1234

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OK, thanks for explaining his reasoning. I still think it's baloney.

I can't even think of a 'submissive' book ... and I'm an avid reader of many genres.

(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 10

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 6:00:13 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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I read for fun. I don't need to learn about submission. I am one, I can just go look in the mirror.

For me, telling someone they aren't allowed to read, to learn in general, to explore all facets of their life and interests, grow in any and all ways is an indication of someone I wouldn't have as a dominant.

I'm curious as to what books he reads though, if any.

_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to mc1234)

Post #: 11

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 6:03:26 AM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: alianora
I recently had a conversation with someone about books; books that we ‘preferred’ to read as opposed to books that we should read, I guess is a good way to describe it.

Who says what anyone "should" read? I am a librarian and a lifelong voracious reader. I read whatever interests me. I have preferences as anyone does and there are genres/authors I refuse to read. It has zero to do with any "orientation." It has to do with want I want to digest and/or learn. I'm always amused by what people think they and others "should" read. Actually, it's been my own experience that the ones who harp the most on that haven't really read what they "should" have themselves. Kind of like the person who has a large library full of leather-bound volumes but has never cracked one open

. It's poppycock to tell me, you or anyone what they "should" read. And the bit about "orientation" having anything to do with it is just the cherry on the BS cake

.

quote:

When I asked why he was so shocked, he told me that because I was submissive, I should instead direct my reading interests towards books that ‘reflected my station’ in life

What an idiot. If people only read books that "reflected" his/her "station in life," how would anyone ever learn anything besides what they already know? You were talkin' with a real genius there, huh?

................luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 12/3/2008 6:04:26 AM >

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 12

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 6:40:28 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

ok.. all I can say re: your friends 'theory' is..

*SNORT*

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Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 13

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 6:49:41 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: alianora

I have a question that off hand seems to be pretty silly, but it’s been on my mind now ever since it was asked me.

I love to read. What’s more, I love to read anything, the genre itself matters little to me as long as the book is well written with a story line that catches and holds my attention.

I recently had a conversation with someone about books; books that we ‘preferred’ to read as opposed to books that we should read, I guess is a good way to describe it. Anyway, this person was shocked when I admitted that two of my favorite books were The Iliad and The Odyssey. When I asked why he was so shocked, he told me that because I was submissive, I should instead direct my reading interests towards books that ‘reflected my station’ in life ( I know, this kind of threw me also )

We debated back and forth for a bit the pro’s and con’s of proper reading material and I can say with honesty that I understand his position on this. That is not what has me shocked though. Several others, submissives and slaves included, have stated the same opinion to me.

So, I was wondering who else thought like this? And if you do, why?

Just out of curiosity is all.

HUH?

How is the "Illiad" or the "Odyssey" dominant or submissive?

These are ancient epic poems, part fantasy and part cultural memory of one people's heritage.

Aside from that, I personally need strong and realistic female characters in order for me to enjoy a book but again that isn't necessarily related to dominance and submission.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 14

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 6:53:37 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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Oh good grief!!! That has to be the most stupid idea I've ever heard of! I am a voracious reader when I get the opportunity. I have never EVER given one iota of thought to whether or not what I was reading reflected anything about me.

I am going to guess that maybe he was intimidated and would prefer you to read something really smart, like ohhhhh sayyyyyyyy..........a few cheesy, historical, romance novels.

Maybe I should enter the idea behind this thread for my first "eye roll of the day". Nothing against you alianora, btw.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 15

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 6:54:49 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: alianora

quote:

ORIGINAL: mc1234

But what was his argument, his reasoning for this? How does a literature choice reflect my station? What is appropriate in his mind for submissives to read?

His argument, and the others almost followed the same thinking; was that reading books that related to submission were more educational than reading books that did not. I am thinking that he came by this argument mainly because he asked how I came to understand that I was submissive and my response was that 'I grew into my understanding of myself' over the years. He stated that in order for me to completly understand, I needed to read books that related to this. Like I said, I disagree, but at the same time, I guess to his thinking it makes sense; and perhaps, for those who are still...searching? for themselves, it makes sense. In a strange sort of way.

It was not so much what he said that shocked me, it was more the fact that others stated the same thing...it got me wondering if 'a lot' of people thought the same way and if they did, why. What led them to this belief that reading a certain book is more educatonal than reading something that a person enjoyed just for that.

If you are talking about BDSM materials then yes, I do think reading a wide range of sources about bottoming and submitting is beneficial. There's a world outside of BDSM.

I'd even suggest you read some books about topping as well to gain better insight frankly. When I've mentored others tops/dom I insisted they read widely without regard to orientation both scene and sexual orientations so they could get the bigger picture and really think about matters.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 16

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 6:57:02 AM

oceanwynds

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Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

Reading books is a major plus in my eyes. I love to read a vast amount of material, non-fiction and fiction. Feeding my mind helps me to broaden my understanding of others as well as myself. My station in life is to be all that i can be. A narrow lane cannot help me to achieve that.

oceanwynds

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 17

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 7:06:26 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: alianora
We debated back and forth for a bit the pro’s and con’s of proper reading material and I can say with honesty that I understand his position on this. That is not what has me shocked though. Several others, submissives and slaves included, have stated the same opinion to me.

Well, for whatever it's worth, this seems to me like the same sort of thinking that goes on when subs and doms alike starting needing to "remind" subs of "their place". Good lord, just imagine if you read a book that explored dominance and, you know, suddenly it occurred to you that you actually hated being a sub and really wanted to be a dom instead. This reads like insecurity to me... like the people who would say such a thing can't quite actually believe that a mature, well rounded woman might still choose to submit. So in response to that, the goal is to carefully constrain the data going into the sub to ensure that all data "backs up" the sub's submisison.

Me, I'm all for read what you want and grow however you choose... personal growth is good pretty much no matter what direction that growth takes you. And, for the record, I'm sincerely doubting there was ever a person who had honestly decided to submit who, after reading some book, thought better of it *laughs more*.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 18

RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 7:32:05 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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I think that there are some advantages to reading -some- material about the mindset of servitude and submission...no matter which side of the collar one resides on, because in modern culture, the idea of submission, yielding, and servitude are really debased, when, historically, that service mindset has been an honorable and revered way of interacting with the world. For myself, though, I'd look at reading these things, as well as works describing great leadership, as an adjunct to other things, not as a replacement for anything. Then again, I am willing to read from a broad scope of things, covering a wide range of ideas, so it makes sense, to me, in a way, to add things about new concepts one is exploring. However, as I said, in my mind it is an -additive- process, not a subtractive one. Just because one is of a certain alignment, doesn't mean that one shouldn't read about other mindsets, philosophies and ideas... the idea of being that restrictive is just... *shuddercringeboggle*

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 12/3/2008 7:34:25 AM >

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***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to leadership527)

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RE: Should reading material reflect a persons orientation? - 12/3/2008 7:35:51 AM

MadRabbit

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I think it should be based on your own personal lifestyle and what it involves, because the range of alternative lifestyle books out there are all quite different. The use of words and definitions and perceptive of what this "lifestyle" is all about changes from book to book.

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(in reply to alianora)

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