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The New Economic US Caste System - 12/4/2008 9:55:08 PM   
cloudboy


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Rugged individualism takes yet another hit.
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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/4/2008 11:33:56 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		Well, there are obviously too many people walking around with degrees in this country now.
Either that or they "intended" to get a degree and then work at Home Depot, Starbucks, Bestbuy, Costco or as waitresses and waiters at restaurants.
Plenty of jobs for M.D.s and Nurses but, everyone wants to be a psychologist/sociologist/political scientist.
It's called, "The Law of Supply and Demand."

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/4/2008 11:39:03 PM   
moonvine


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Status: offline 		Actually nurses not so much...my friend is a medical transcriptionist (or was before she was laid off) and she tells me they are now importing nurses from 3rd world countries on work visas so that they can pay them half as much as U.S. nurses. 

Doctors are still ok, but not everyone can be a doctor, and if somehow we all could be a doctor we wouldn't make any money at it.

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/4/2008 11:39:31 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


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quote:

Well, there are obviously too many people walking around with degrees in this country now
Is this something you've concluded is a social problem?
I think everyone should have access to education/higher education, and that it ought not be something only the wealthy can afford.  I belive it is definitely becoming that way in the last 8+  years.   M

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The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/4/2008 11:42:44 PM   
Naga


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Status: offline 		Unfortunately, if people didn't have to work for an education, no one would appreciate it. I find that to be the biggest argument against socialized education there is.

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/4/2008 11:56:04 PM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


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Status: offline 		I don't believe that at all.
Many countries in Europe fund education, and their citizens don't seem to discard it as useless.  Working and borrowing up the eyeball for it only means that unless you are from a wealthy family, you will be in debt forever, and have limited to no credit for almost ever.  

quote:

moonvine
she tells me they are now importing nurses from 3rd world countries on work visas so that they can pay them half as much as U.S. nurses
This is of course part of the problem with health care being a commodity for profit.  
Oh hell, I might as well be out as hating many parts (if not most) of the BS (non)free market economy.   M

< Message edited by FullfigRIMAAM1 -- 12/5/2008 12:00:20 AM >

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The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/4/2008 11:59:35 PM   
moonvine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

I don't believe that at all.
Many countries in Europe fund education, and their citizens don't seem to discard it as useless.  Working and borrowing up the eyeball for it only means that unless you are from a wealthy family, you will be in debt forever, and have limited to no credit for almost ever.   M


Agreed, except if you are from a wealthy family you will not have to borrow for it.  Having an educated workforce is better for a country than not having one IMHO.

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:02:16 AM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


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quote:

Agreed, except if you are from a wealthy family you will not have to borrow for it.  Having an educated workforce is better for a country than not having one IMHO
I think we agree, or are you saying that only wealthy people should have access to higher education, or that it's okay for those born without a silver spoon to be in debt forever?   M

_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:12:46 AM   
Naga


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

I don't believe that at all.
Many countries in Europe fund education, and their citizens don't seem to discard it as useless. Working and borrowing up the eyeball for it only means that unless you are from a wealthy family, you will be in debt forever, and have limited to no credit for almost ever.


You can not believe it all you want. There is a reason that a lot of people come here for their education. We have better education because there is competition.

quote:

This is of course part of the problem with health care being a commodity for profit.
Oh hell, I might as well be out as hating many parts (if not most) of the BS (non)free market economy. M


Which is only a problem until you consider the alternatives. Free health care plain sucks. And again, why a lot of people pay crazy money to come here for health care. It beats dying while you are waiting for the "free" version.

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:20:58 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

Well, there are obviously too many people walking around with degrees in this country now
Is this something you've concluded is a social problem?
I think everyone should have access to education/higher education, and that it ought not be something only the wealthy can afford.  I belive it is definitely becoming that way in the last 8+  years.   M


I didn't say it's a "social problem" I said it's a case of "supply and demand."
We can't all be sociologists, psychologists, lawyers.

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:25:41 AM   
moonvine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

quote:

Agreed, except if you are from a wealthy family you will not have to borrow for it.  Having an educated workforce is better for a country than not having one IMHO
I think we agree, or are you saying that only wealthy people should have access to higher education, or that it's okay for those born without a silver spoon to be in debt forever?   M


I think there should be equal access.  Public universities are supposedly funded by taxpayers anyway, why are they so freaking expensive?  Law school at the University of Texas (a public school, supported by my tax dollars) is in excess of $30,000 a year last I checked - that is insane!

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:27:13 AM   
moonvine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga



Which is only a problem until you consider the alternatives. Free health care plain sucks. And again, why a lot of people pay crazy money to come here for health care. It beats dying while you are waiting for the "free" version.


Free health care does not suck at all - by the way we are #37 amongst industrialized nations in terms of health care.
I could die waiting for the paid version here since I have no money to pay for it, and when I get that elusive $8 an hour job I am still not going to have enough money to pay for it.

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:30:04 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga

Unfortunately, if people didn't have to work for an education, no one would appreciate it. I find that to be the biggest argument against socialized education there is.
Why do you believe this?

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:36:20 AM   
FullfigRIMAAM1


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quote:

You can not believe it all you want. There is a reason that a lot of people come here for their education. We have better education because there is competition.
I should have said your statement isn't factual, but simply your opinion.  I should have said "paying for it" isn't what makes people want to go to college, and having it subsidized does not make those who obtain it ungrateful.

As for our wonderful education system, before trying to preach it's superiority to me, you should know I live in the city and attended a public school.  I now pay for my uhm to go to private school; not because I want him to feel singularly special, but because the public schools suck the big one.
True many folks come here for the education, but it is more for flexibility and fame of having gone to school here, rather than legitimate superiority to all others.   M

_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:36:47 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga


And again, why a lot of people pay crazy money to come here for health care. It beats dying while you are waiting for the "free" version.
I suppose that's why thousands of Americans go abroad for health care. http://www.medicaltourismassociation.com/

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:41:47 AM   
Naga


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quote:

ORIGINAL: moonvine

Free health care does not suck at all - by the way we are #37 amongst industrialized nations in terms of health care.


It does suck. For example, I have a friend who had a testicle removed. If he had need to wait 3 months as he would have had to do in Canada, he would have been dead. That constitutes "suckage" to me.

And what stats say we are 37th? References, please.

quote:

I could die waiting for the paid version here since I have no money to pay for it, and when I get that elusive $8 an hour job I am still not going to have enough money to pay for it.


I am not saying we are perfect, I am just saying the alternative is much, much worse.

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:44:44 AM   
Naga


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga

Unfortunately, if people didn't have to work for an education, no one would appreciate it. I find that to be the biggest argument against socialized education there is.
Why do you believe this?


Because it is basic human nature, we do not value what we do not earn.

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:49:14 AM   
Naga


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

I suppose that's why thousands of Americans go abroad for health care.


Thousands? For procedures which are legal or illegal here? Stolen organs, for example? Or for a chance at a matching organ? Or for sex changes?

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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:51:09 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga

Unfortunately, if people didn't have to work for an education, no one would appreciate it. I find that to be the biggest argument against socialized education there is.
Why do you believe this?


Because it is basic human nature, we do not value what we do not earn.
Speak for yourself.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Naga)
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RE: The New Economic US Caste System - 12/5/2008 12:52:48 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

I suppose that's why thousands of Americans go abroad for health care.


Thousands? For procedures which are legal or illegal here? Stolen organs, for example? Or for a chance at a matching organ? Or for sex changes?

As usual, I wasted my time putting up a link for someone who wishes to remain willfully ignorant.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Naga)
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