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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 1:34:01 PM   
oceanwynds


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Another thought regarding this thread, is that what is inside a person becomes visible on the outside. An example of this is jewelry. When I am feeling good inside the jewelry I wear tends to 'shine' better.

Just a little tidbit I wanted to offer.

oceanwynds

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 1:36:12 PM   
loveandlight87


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I strongly agree with kidwithknife:

"What's inside can (majorly) increase a small amount of already existing attraction for me.  What it can't do is create attraction out of nothing." 

Attraction is important, but the components of attraction go way beyond the physical for me.  One thing I really need is grey or silver in the hair and a little furry pot belly (strange I know).  Everything else is fluid in terms of attraction for me.

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 1:39:29 PM   
moonvine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: panthersub

Why is this so important to a Dom/Domme? Same question can be applied to HWP?


Not all Dom/Dommes are looking for HWP. 

Although I am not dominant, I will say the last guy I dated I was not at all physically attracted to at first sight and was shocked how much I got to care about him. 

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 2:37:42 PM   
Coupleofwhats


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

It amazes me when people want to talk about what is on the inside as they are usually saying that to get an "attractive" person to be interested in them. It is the dork wondering why the cheerleader isn't interested, it is seldom the dork wanting to date another dork.

(Note: terms used above are broad stereotypical terms used merely to illustrate a point, not to put relative values on either cheerleaders or dorks)


Bingo!


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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 3:09:37 PM   
DesFIP


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The other thing we're forgetting about are the hard wired biological imperatives. Most of us operates on the instinctive level. We don't look at a person and consciously judge if their faces are symmetrical. However studies have shown that people with symmetrical faces/bodies are thought of as more desirable.

That's because someone nonsymmetrical 10,000 years ago was more likely to be less healthy. Now we don't still need to base things on this to ensure healthy offspring but our lizard brains, the part of us that makes decisions way before the conscious mind gets involved, still does.

Same thing with womens waist/hip ratios. If the ratio is 1.0/1.6 a woman is viewed as more attractive. Simply because at that ratio she's more likely to carry a healthy offspring to term. And men respond to that instinctively.

The same way women do with men who are taller - more able to fight off a saber toothed tiger, more muscled - ditto, etc. We judge instinctively, not ten minutes later. Most of what we do is biologically based. We don't feel something tickling our skin and think "I wonder if that is a poisonous insect. Gee I ought to turn around and check it out". No we feel and leap within one second's time span, before we even identify the sensation that caused us to leap. We're hard wired for most of this stuff and even though we haven't really needed it in the last 100 years, 100,000 years of bred in instincts aren't going to suddenly go poof.

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 3:44:00 PM   
MidMichCowboy


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Because we are biologically predisposed to do so. We are animals with all the instincts and thoughts of an animal.

Men tend to feel a need to find women to procreate with. Within most of us we look for two types of observable evidence of a woman's health and youth: features of physical appearance, such as full lips, clear skin, smooth skin, clear eyes, lustrous hair, and good muscle tone, and features of behavior, such as a bouncy, youthful gait, and animated facial expressions. Those are the women who through the years were most likely to bear healthy children and raise them.

Women are looking for someone to protect and help raise their children. Athletic prowess is an important attribute to most women that hearkens back to the beginning of man. An athletic and well-muscled male is more likely to be a good hunter hence provide for a family. Large and athletic males can also provide physical protection from other males. Women are attracted to a successful male because this is indicative of his ability to provide for a family. Yet a man has had more than just the resources to attract a female, he also has to be willing to share them. Women tend to be attracted to more generous men because this is indicative of how they will treat them in the future.

This is wired into most of us. That is biology and is still what drives most relationships.

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 3:46:23 PM   
Lynnxz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

It amazes me when people want to talk about what is on the inside as they are usually saying that to get an "attractive" person to be interested in them.  It is the dork wondering why the cheerleader isn't interested, it is seldom the dork wanting to date another dork. 

(Note: terms used above are broad stereotypical terms used merely to illustrate a point, not to put relative values on either cheerleaders or dorks)


Nice call


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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 3:57:16 PM   
stella41b


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Appearance matters to me in some ways, but not in others, and it's not the complete picture.

I used to think that physical appearance mattered a lot, that I could never be with someone with an appearance which didn't match my expectations or who I thought to be physically unattractive from their appearance. But that was when I was about 14 years old.

The thing I find most attractive about other people is their humanity, their physical imperfections, things which make them stand out from the rest, things by which I would recognize them, their solid bits, their soft bits, their lumpy bits and their squishy bits, signs that they are living and are very much alive.

I never go by a photo, or even hundreds of them, because no camera is as sensitive as the human eye, and all you have is a lifeless snapshot taken from a split second of someone's life. It tells you nothing about what it feels like to be in their presence, doesn't tell you anything about their presence, their aura, their warmth, how they project themselves, how they come across (which to me is far more important) and if you think it does, then I'm sorry but in my opinion you're only fooling yourself and setting up false expectations about that person.

I'm not physically attractive, my physical beauty is so hidden I'm almost convinced that I left it somewhere at a bus stop in Liverpool in 1986 and you will never find it by looking at a photo of me. I'm a transgendered female and on a photo I barely pass, but when you meet me and spend time in my company it comes across more. I never got dates or into relationships by the way I look, but more by how I come across, what I project, who I am inside as a person, and how I can make someone feel in my company.

I would never even dream of looking for HWP or even be foolish enough to demand it from someone else, this to me is silly. Just wondering here just how HWP are those who demand it, just how perfect they are themselves before they demand such perfection in others. Most people I come across are not HWP according to some BMI Index, they're either overweight or underweight, and weight in most people fluctuates anyway, especially in women when it is usually tied into their menstrual cycle and is dependent on how much or how little fluid their body retains. I don't look at how much someone weighs, but rather how well they carry the weight they are at that moment. It's just me, I find body fascism unattractive as a character trait.

I look at things like personal hygiene, dress sense, manners, control over emotions, and someone who can make me feel something in their presence. Knob Cheese and Haddock Stew are not my favourite brands of deodorant, nor do I feel comfortable sitting near someone who looks likely to explode out of their clothing at some random moment. If you're older please accept it and dress for your actual age, and not for your mental age and if you are overweight please wear clothing of the size you actually are, not the size you want to be. No need to dress as if you've just stolen the contents of your neighbour's washing line or raided their laundry basket. Also, when meeting a domme, I much prefer the natural woman look to that of a glamourous transvestite (not that I have anything against glamourous transvestites, in fact I'm a fan and supportive of sissies, drag queens, and glamourous transvestites).

However what lies inside and personal integrity carry a much greater weight together with the acceptance that we are all human, and therefore imperfect.


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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 4:13:03 PM   
panthersub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

quote:

ORIGINAL: panthersub

i appreciate all of your comments, but don't we use the, "It's what on the inside that counts?" anymore? i think i got that right, please correct me if i am wrong. Thank you


sadly we do--AFTER we have ensured that the outside is acceptable to what other people will think, because after all ,goddess forbid, we should select someone who didnt fit the "mold".  I mean its all about sex, sex, sex, dontcha know.
 
<said with a little more than dripping sarcasm>


lol, totally agree with you

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 4:18:16 PM   
panthersub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadameMarque

What I notice most about your question, is your apparently belief that the appearance of others is important to dominants, only. 

(Unless you mean, a dominant's own appearance is more important to them, in which case, I'd have to ponder that possibility.  Little preening among the dominants, yes there is.)

What gives you that impression?  I assure you, the submissives, switches, and vanilla people I know, all have their physical preferences.  Not just in the body's appearance, by the way, but also in style and grooming, people have preferences.

To ask why humans have preferences in appearance would be more to the point, but that might be a matter for anthropologists, sociologists, and biologists, because there are differing theories on it.

I suspect that implicit in your question is that people shouldn't find appearance important.  But you feel what you feel.  I think that everyone deserves to have a partner who feels naturally drawn to them and spontaneously excited about them.  It's not a job interview, it's love and lust.

"If his love is to be called perverse, then let it be so, for maybe love is too great to be normal, too intense to be sane."
 
- from a commentary on the film, Gekko no Sasayaki aka Moonlight Whispers, http://imdb.com/title/tt0208178/usercomments




i apologize, i don't generally look at submissive/slaves profile on here, i may if one looks at my profile but almost all submissive/slaves i've seen on here don't talk a lot about any specific generalized body type that they are looking for. From the many Dom and some Domme profiles i see on here, they are characterizing what type of body type in a sub/slave. And everyone, whether vanilla or BDSM have their own preferance yes, i agree with you. But before i looked and found this site, i was dating in a vanilla setting and i didn't see a lot of males looking for a specific person, only one that they could spend time with. Whereas on here, it seems that people are being more specific in what they are looking for. And i do think that appearance is important to some and not to others. Sorry for any confusion.

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 4:32:03 PM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael
Oh, and I know that the old addage is that men are more visual than women but in my instance, I do not believe that to be the case.
That's because you're not a true woman, virtuous and pure and whatnot...  *smirks*


< giggle > You are so right, Leadership!  :>  It's good to be understood....  :> 
    Davan

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 4:36:13 PM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tornaway
      As much as some may want to deny it - we are animals .  Often we may react to someone on a purely instinctual level .  Haven't you ever met someone who seemed nice otherwise , but caused the hair on the back of your neck to stand up - or some other reaction that made you uncomfortable - and you couldn't really pinpoint why ?  You just knew you didn't want them getting any closer ...
 
      We're each wired differently , and can be repelled by , or drawn to someone for all kinds of reasons .  But especially when it comes to picking mates - appearance does matter bigtime .  And I'm not talking just outside attractiveness here - six pack abs , or shapely legs, boobs , height , hair , whatever .  But just how the whole person might look to each of us , and how it feels to be near them .
 
       If I look back on my own history , I've been drawn to a very wide variety of people - no one "type" at all .   The one common thread was  the level of self care evident   ( hair , nails, teeth, fitness , etc. )  that I need to be attracted  to someone.   But bottom line is - if I want a real connection with someone - especially sexual , I've gotta feel that pull TO them .  So yeah - it sure does matter ! 


I agree totally with the animalistic instinct to breed/survive theory that underlies what you said.  And, you said it well.  :>  
  Davan

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 4:46:30 PM   
moonvine


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You must have been on some different vanilla dating sites than I have, because all the vanilla dating sites I have been on have featured men looking for a specific body type.

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 4:49:33 PM   
MidMichCowboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

The thing I find most attractive about other people is their humanity, their physical imperfections, things which make them stand out from the rest, things by which I would recognize them, their solid bits, their soft bits, their lumpy bits and their squishy bits, signs that they are living and are very much alive.

However what lies inside and personal integrity carry a much greater weight together with the acceptance that we are all human, and therefore imperfect.


(OK this is very sincere ... which for me .. is unusual)
Stella ... we have not all evolved as much as you. We carry trappings of societal expectations and primitive instincts. You are one of the very specials ones.


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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 6:17:27 PM   
panthersub


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i most likely wasn't looking at the correct sites yea

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 7:44:02 PM   
moonvine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: panthersub

i most likely wasn't looking at the correct sites yea


Hi panthersub,

I didn't mean to imply you weren't looking at the correct sites, just wondering where on earth you were looking that body type wasn't a consideration. 

When I'm on fat dating sites, even, men tend to be looking *just* for hourglasses or *just* for pears or *just* for apples.  Most men are not gonna like my ass, but I must say that the men who do like it *really really really* like it:)

On regular dating sites they tend to be looking for "thin" or "average" or "athletic."

I think the ones who just want to find a woman to spend some time with don't need to use dating sites.  But I could be wrong.

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RE: Appearance? - 12/5/2008 8:49:18 PM   
RealSub58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: panthersub

i appreciate all of your comments, but don't we use the, "It's what on the inside that counts?" anymore? i think i got that right, please correct me if i am wrong. Thank you


 I must tell a story on appearance.  Everyone liked him, he was a great guy with fun and wit.  He was intelligent and totally into the person he was with.  He had a charm that could wash a girl up into his arms.There was this other guy that picked his teeth every 5 minutrs as well as had horrible breath.  His hair was the bedhead fashion.  His personal body odor ~~ suffice it to say, you smelled him before he came into the room. He shuffled, hunched slightly over as if depressed when walking.  And he invented the "gangsta" attire before it came to the States. Pants down (no belt !), boxers showing and butt crack of a plumber. Now "both" of these guys were HWP. Ya, the same dude.  I almost suckered myself into a date with him only cause he lived a few houses down and I felt sorry for him.The last I heard he was engaged.  To someone who accepted the inside after getting over the outside.  My guess is she slowly trained him. What is inside is very important to me, but the bald, dunlap 40-55 yr old guy with a heart of gold can keep walking as far as I am concerned.  I'd rather wake up alone and let both dogs lick my face away. It is all about chemistry.  And the potential formula's are out there.  In fact, if the reaction is to wet myself just by looking at a handsome stallion, he can keep galloping away . . .  no way will he park his behind in my stable. Maybe if the stallion had a heart of gold but in 4 decades, I've not much seen that.   

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RE: Appearance? - 12/6/2008 5:42:46 AM   
lally3


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im with stella and all that she said - and i dont usually pull back from a photograph because no photograph will ever catch the myriad of changes that an interesting, enlivening personality will bring to their face and their body language.  it has been my experience that its the less than attractive guys who have personalities i fall in love with, simply because theyve had to build on that to compensate for the fact that they inherited a not so perfect appearance from their parents.

in a small way it sort of bugs me how people do measure a persons worth by how they look, almost to the point of discounting their personality.

ive been out with male models and hunks and they were vain and shallow to a man, but pretty and fun to fuck but thats all really - as i get older and the guys around my age are getting older too, the physiological changes that occur maybe cloud the youthful good looks we used to have and we have to get real here. mens noses and ears get bigger, they dont exfoliate or moisturise so their skin gets all leathery and crinkly, my tits dont pass the pencil test anymore and since i hit the forties i can see changes that dont reflect the fact that i still feel 20 something.

perfection is just a pile of crap really.  noone is.  i look back to when i was 20 something, and dare i say a bit of a traffic stopper - but i was so full of anxt and misery about a zit on my chin or my hair was all over the place or i felt i looked fat in my size 8 jeans - now, is it that i dont give a shit anymore, i dont think so - its much more to do with the fact that ive lost all of my anxt, all of my inhibitions and im proud of who i am.  i can walk down the street all shuffly and tired and be completely invisible, i can be dressed in exactly the same clothes and walk down that street with more attitude than i have a right to and i get savage looks from women and surruptitous glances from their husbands - its all about personality and attitude and thats how it should be.

if someone is so shallow as to discount a person for how they look then they should take a long hard look in their mirror at home and ask themselves what makes them so perfect that they can judge a person in that way.

granted some people are minging - theres a guy near where i live who is foul to look at - but if he had a wash, cut his hair, ditched that disgusting brown jacket and walked straight he'd actually look ok.  but his personality is such that he slouches along and you know, you just know that his house is filthy and his cock probably hasnt had a proper wash in ages (shudder) - but a few months ago i couldnt get my car started and he sauntered over, took half an hour twiddling around, was really sweet and got it going for me.  he had lice in his hair and he stank to high heaven - so his kindness did nothing for me on those grounds - with a wash he'd probably brush up quite well, but im not going there!!! - that sort of break down in personal pride is deeply off-putting, but other than that, no.  a persons personality should be the thing that counts most.

wow that went on for ages... sorry.

< Message edited by lally3 -- 12/6/2008 5:46:45 AM >


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