RE: Lip service (Full Version)

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CatdeMedici -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 6:29:27 AM)

First of all, for whatever happened, I wish you speedy recovery and days free from despair. Now as to your post:
 
Just because someone walks through our hallowed halls does not mean they have been sprinkled with the fairy dust of values, morals, ethics, integrity. They are pretty much in here what they are "out there". If only...
 
as for people taking a stand--there are many many people taking stands each and every day, "everyday heroes", risking it all for the sake of the butterfly effect--yet it there never seems to be enough "wings flapping" and I suppose we as humans can only see the "big things" we don't see the teen who holds the door for the Mom and the brood of kids, or the neighborhood that runs the drug dealers out of the area.
 
We are only going to hell n a handbasket if we hide our heads in the sand, however, we also have to be prepared to stand quite and utterly alone---yet when one is alone, there is no cacophony to dim the sound of our voice.



mistoferin -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 6:36:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici
We are only going to hell n a handbasket if we hide our heads in the sand, however, we also have to be prepared to stand quite and utterly alone---yet when one is alone, there is no cacophony to dim the sound of our voice.


That is what I am finding...alone. I am not star struck by this lifestyle and I'm certainly not so naive as to think we have a better class of people here...far from it. What galls me though is that somehow, to the community at large, there is this idea that just because they are associated with the lifestyle that it makes them immune from accountability for their actions. What has happened has nothing whatsoever to do with the community...but because he is a respected dominant in the community and that community is how I came to know him...well how dare I?



rulemylife -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 6:44:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07 

Many times through my career i've had to walk into a CEO's office and inform them what my co-worker, supervisor, etc is doing.  Why? Because i have to hold on to my integrity. 



And I bet everyone you work with just loves you to death. 

Undoubtedly for your integrity.


I am sure she does not care if they love her or not.  Being able to look at yourself in the mirror and not being disappointed with what you see is much more important to her than some co-workers affection.

Knight's Kyra


Hmmm!  Let's see!

Many times in her career she has had to inform on her co-workers and supervisors.

Must be difficult to bear the huge weight of all that integrity.



CatdeMedici -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 6:44:05 AM)

Amen! Accountability should not take a back seat.
 
Just remember, you are better, stronger and will outlast ( not as momentarily comforting as a public flogging though--).
 



sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 6:45:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin




I’m finding that the type of people that I want anywhere near my life are few. The world really is going to hell in a hand basket and most people are along for the ride because they can’t find enough courage within themselves to get off the train. I don’t know why I can’t seem to let go of my expectation that most people are basically good, decent human beings who will do what’s right. It causes me to be continually disappointed in the human race.



I find the same thing true in my life as well. People seem to do the easy thing , which is nothing allot of times.  People want to take the easy way sometimes. I see a few people making the stand that if it doesn't affect them directly then they ignore it.  As a nurse I have long not been surprised by what people do to themselves and others and when someone needs help there are few that actually stand by them. We have few friends that we actually consider close, most we have found to be less than forthcoming with being truthful. 



DavanKael -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 6:47:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Then you know the absolute horror of it all. This wasn't some little thing...this was something major. I can't imagine much worse to be really honest and I'm sure that I will have nightmares for a long time to come thinking of those images. I just don't understand how anyone that has a heart beating in their chest could look the other way. People like that should be outcast from society but just because they belong to this "lifestyle" they somehow deserve a free pass???? Oh fuck that!!!


I don't know what happened (And I've not yet read the thread) but I am sorry. It seems as if you are very upset.  If you want an ear that understands the importance of the qualities you mentioned, you're welcome to c-mail me.  And, I agree with you that honesty, integrity, keeping of commitments, honor, etc. are very often marginalized.  If you reaad the boards, you've seen me railing about it, sometimes to flurries of flames.  I don't care: right is right and sometimes it is as simple as that and stoicism about 'easy come, easy go' is a tidy load of crap. 
Best wishes and hang in there, 
  Davan



MadRabbit -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 7:22:19 AM)

As much as I respect your opinion Erin, let me start off by bluntly stating that I could really give a flying fuck whether anyone thinks I pay lip service or has honor and integrity besides me. At the end of the day, it's just me looking in the mirror and me in my own bed reflecting on my actions.

I want to make a point to say that, because what I am going to say next might be a bit hard to swallow for some of the idealists out there.

When it comes to the issue of honor and integrity, only MY actions concern me and MY behavior and what I do. I have certain things I find to be virtuous and I strive to represent those qualities in my own actions.

The other side of this coin, what you seem to be talking about, is how I deal and respond to other people's actions and the existence of things in this world that are against my values that aren't directly the result of my own actions.

How I deal and respond to other people is pragmatically tempered by the question of "Is what I am going to do going to have any tangible impact or really going to change anything?"

Why? Because as cold and harsh as this may sound, there is quite a lot of truth to the following statement made by Machievelli...

"And the manner in which we live, and that in which we ought to live, are things so wide asunder, that he who quits the one to betake himself to the other is more likely to destroy than to save himself; since any one who would act up to a perfect standard of goodness in everything, must be ruined among so many who are not good."

Attempting to stop an armed robbery or mugging when you don't have any kind of military/police training or even a gun will most likely end up with you and other people getting shot and making the situation much worse.

Attempting to speak up about the unethical behavior of one's boss when you don't have any influence or connections with people higher up on the food chain will most likely result in you losing your job and your boss continuing to do what he is doing.

Anyone who acts solely for an ideal and not off the pragmatic reality of a situation is a fool. What greater good have you caused by attempting to stop someone who is stealing a few hundred bucks if it results in one or more people being dead? What change are you going to be able to implement in response to your boss's unethical behavior if your out of a job and no longer in a position to do anything if you foolishly lost in pursuit of an ideal?

We like to pretend we are superheros, but the truth is there is certain things within our abilities to change and influence and a hell of a lot of things that aren't. We aren't as important as we like to think we are. Not knowing your limitations in this world and bringing about your own demise without any real change occurring as a result so you can look yourself in the mirror and say "Well, I did the right thing." is the path of an idiot.



NuevaVida -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 7:22:35 AM)

Hi Erin,

Whatever has happened that has upset you so, I hope you find peace again.

I do disagree, however, that people are not (generally) inherently good. Having had more than my share of emotional burns, I still do very much believe in the goodness of people, because I have seen far more good than bad in my personal life. That said, there are indeed "bad" people out there, everywhere. This "lifestyle" is not immune to it. I hope when the clouds clear you will see that love and goodness are abundant.

May you find comfort in those close to you, hon. Big hugs to you.



Twicehappy2x -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 7:22:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Living on the street or carrying wood is far preferable to me than having to walk through life turning a blind eye. Swallowing the bile is getting old.


It takes a lot of courage to risk everything. 

Plus the people who draw lines tend not to do so only in important things, they tend to draw lines about a lot of stuff. Most of us like a more peaceful existance, a less adversarial ones.


You know, you be wrong to say that about Erin, trust me, i know.
 
I would rather be considered an adversary that ignore some of the horrendous wrongs some (so called)  human beings inflict on each other or on other living things, and occasionally on the world at large.
 
Did her stand buy her peace in her life? No, but it brought peace and comfort to other living beings who were totally without a defender.
 
Hurray for the heroes of the world, those that stand up for the defenseless.
 
The true measure of a humans worth is not whether or not they lived a peaceful existence. It is whether or not they are at peace with themselves.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 7:49:03 AM)

quote:

I’m finding that the type of people that I want anywhere near my life are few.

Erin, It's fortunate to have one. You're lucky to have two. If you have three or more, you're either a liar or naive. 
quote:

The world really is going to hell in a hand basket and most people are along for the ride because they can’t find enough courage within themselves to get off the train.
The world is reaping what it has sown. The reason is it is easier to go "along for the ride". You get sympathy, and a free ticket for the ride. Failure reaps reward, generates sympathy and there is always a excuse acceptable or at least rationalized; its a dying breed who desire and strive for self sufficiency.  Nobody earns sympathy by working without complaint, doing what it takes to not rely on anyone or have any expectation of anyone but yourself to obtain your goal. No - that only get you taxed, literally as well as mentally and emotionally.  
quote:

Very much  I don’t know why I can’t seem to let go of my expectation that most people are basically good, decent human beings who will do what’s right. It causes me to be continually disappointed in the human race.
This last thought is a non-sequitur. You pointed out that you can rely on expectations, just not the ones that involve the other person having integrity. Knowing that they don't is just as valuable as believing that they do. Results would indicate its not a cynical approach to live, but a pragmatic one.

Integrity is a moving target. See a kid drop a $5 bill while in line and most would tend to pick it up and give it back to them. The fact that that the word 'most' had to be involved already points to a problem. However when the amount is varied along with the situation; integrity is a sliding scale. The amount, and the circumstances dictate integrity. 'Mother Theresa' was a 'saint' because she was an exception. Humanity doesn't generate many 'saints'.

I doubt my kids think I have any more right answers than I did of my parents. However there is one philosophy that they've had in mind and 'tested' out in their world. Don't believe or trust anyone. ALL have an agenda, you just don't know it. Friends, family, business, or private; if you are fortunate, their agenda compliments yours.

This philosophy doesn't required you to go around with a chip on your shoulder; it is simply a matter of awareness. Regardless of the circumstances you experienced, you would not be disappointed in the result, and if things worked out - you would have been pleasantly surprised. That's how to keep an even keel.

Getting back to my kid training; although their youthful enthusiasm and perspective is contrary to that thought, since they've been 'keeping score' they've tallied many proving my belief and very few on their side. Even the purest, most honest, and believing person I've ever met, beth reluctantly has to acquiesce to the reality of people's 'natural instinct' and behavior.

Better to be sometimes pleasantly surprised than consistently disappointed.

Take care erin, and good luck.

Ahhh, I love the smell of burning cynicism on a Monday morning!



SirDominic -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 8:35:41 AM)

erin, here's a thought that will not cheer you up. I think that a lot of people are basically good when it is in their best interest to do so. When you add in the self interest angle, I think one begins to see people from a different perspective. It might help you be less disappointed in the human race.



IronBear -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 8:40:59 AM)

There are times when it is far, far better to be seen to be a fool, a damned fool to stand up for what you believe and in the words of a famous British Admiral: "Dam the torpedoes!!!" mayhhap you will survive, live or mayhap you will die, lonely unmorned except for a few who know and understand. mayhap those ritchious ones will drag you tar and feathered and dump you outside the city limits. Somewhere, someone will know and learn by your actions and then another and mayhap;s over several generations the seed planted by your actions will become a light drawing other to it all asking "WHY? Why was this allowed to happen?" Who knows the future is not written in stone just sketched in the sands of the grreat deserts where only sages may read then ere the winds erase them for now. Those who shun you now are not friends. A friend would not do this at least untill they have all the facts so thay make decide their course of action.. 

But then I'm just one person, a silly philisophical old fart who is the first to admit is perplexed with this modern world.... My words oft fall on deaf ears and are lost, but my thoughts sit with you. 



mistoferin -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 8:50:23 AM)

Thank you so much.



mistoferin -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 9:03:38 AM)

Well, I just found out that being expected to alter your normal behavior or responses because of pressure or influence from your lifestyle community based upon your orientation vs. the orientation of the one you oppose is not a topic suited for the lifestyle portion of the boards. Go figure. My apologies.



Icarys -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 9:09:30 AM)

quote:

remote cabin on a mountain top somewhere is sounding pretty appealing.

Same plan here! Dreaming of Alaska....

On topic: What if someone takes the complete opposite opinion of what you view as wrong? Does that make them any less honorable or lacking in integrity?

One thing I've learned over time is, nobody has the right to throw the first stone.



mistoferin -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 9:13:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

One thing I've learned over time is, nobody has the right to throw the first stone.



So if you know that your neighbor is committing unspeakable horrors and innocent victims are dying as a result...do you look the other way so you don't get accused of throwing rocks?



Icarys -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 9:15:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

One thing I've learned over time is, nobody has the right to throw the first stone.



So if you know that your neighbor is committing unspeakable horrors and innocent victims are dying as a result...do you look the other way so you don't get accused of throwing rocks?

Don't remember you saying specifics. Did you?



mistoferin -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 9:20:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

One thing I've learned over time is, nobody has the right to throw the first stone.



So if you know that your neighbor is committing unspeakable horrors and innocent victims are dying as a result...do you look the other way so you don't get accused of throwing rocks?

Don't remember you saying specifics. Did you?



No, I didn't. Wrong is still wrong isn't it...regardless of the specifics?



Icarys -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 9:21:06 AM)

I'm just curious..Why are you on a forum ranting about someone actually dying and not doing something about it yourself.



Icarys -> RE: Lip service (12/8/2008 9:23:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

One thing I've learned over time is, nobody has the right to throw the first stone.



So if you know that your neighbor is committing unspeakable horrors and innocent victims are dying as a result...do you look the other way so you don't get accused of throwing rocks?

Don't remember you saying specifics. Did you?



No, I didn't. Wrong is still wrong isn't it...regardless of the specifics?

No it's not. I may smack my slaves in the face for enjoyment, by law that is wrong, for me it's not. Specifics matter to me at least.



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