RE: Lip service

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rulemylife -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 12:35:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida I think you have jumped to a lot of really incorrect conclusions here, without knowing any of the details or even asking about them, and launched ignorant, incorrect and unfair criticisms as a result. What does that say of you? Ok, let me ask you one major detail. Did you, at any point, try to resolve these issues face-to-face with the person involved?

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 4:43:42 PM)
Erin, Your sig line says it all. There are no victims, only volunteers. Your life is scripted your way. That being said, sometimes we suffer to live with integrity. I always try to see that there has always been something better at the end of it all.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 4:52:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida I think you have jumped to a lot of really incorrect conclusions here, without knowing any of the details or even asking about them, and launched ignorant, incorrect and unfair criticisms as a result. What does that say of you? Ok, let me ask you one major detail. Did you, at any point, try to resolve these issues face-to-face with the person involved? Why have you come just to antagonize? Did someone piss in your cereal?

rulemylife -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 5:04:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Ok, let me ask you one major detail. Did you, at any point, try to resolve these issues face-to-face with the person involved? Why have you come just to antagonize? Did someone piss in your cereal? Uh, no. I guess I didn't realize that disagreeing with someone's interpretation of integrity on a thread about integrity was antagonizing. Next time I'll remember to nod my head yes and agree with whatever you think is the right answer, so I can demonstrate I have true integrity.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 5:56:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Ok, let me ask you one major detail. Did you, at any point, try to resolve these issues face-to-face with the person involved? Why have you come just to antagonize? Did someone piss in your cereal? Uh, no. I guess I didn't realize that disagreeing with someone's interpretation of integrity on a thread about integrity was antagonizing. Next time I'll remember to nod my head yes and agree with whatever you think is the right answer, so I can demonstrate I have true integrity. See, there you go again. When did I ever attack you or your integrity?

rulemylife -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 6:46:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Why have you come just to antagonize? Did someone piss in your cereal? Uh, no. I guess I didn't realize that disagreeing with someone's interpretation of integrity on a thread about integrity was antagonizing. Next time I'll remember to nod my head yes and agree with whatever you think is the right answer, so I can demonstrate I have true integrity. See, there you go again. When did I ever attack you or your integrity? Well, I don't know, could it be when you accused me of having no other purpose than to be here to antagonize? Can we end this now, before it gets any sillier than it has become?

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 7:13:11 PM)
So than Whistle blowers are self righteous and dont have any integrity? Thats what it sounds like you're arguing. Which seems like a devils advocate position.

rulemylife -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 7:23:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 So than Whistle blowers are self righteous and dont have any integrity? Thats what it sounds like you're arguing. Which seems like a devils advocate position. Have you read the whole thread? I stated earlier I have respect for whistleblowers. There is a big difference between addressing serious situations that involve safety issues or major corruption and sneaking around behind your co-workers backs to inform on someone who may have come into work a little tipsy because he/she stayed out too late celebrating a special occasion the night before.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 7:28:51 PM)
No one should ever be at work "tipsy" Its unprofessional and a safety issue and is a bad projection of values that you would think that o.k. I have read this thread through twice.

slaveluci -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 7:38:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Did you, at any point, try to resolve these issues face-to-face with the person involved? I think this is a very valid question. When this thread first began, I read several of the posts and was discussing the issue with my Master. That was the point He made. In His opinion - and mine - taking it to the person involved first demonstrates integrity. Obviously there may be some instances where that's not the best solution but I would venture that, in many instances, it's certainly a viable option. I have never been one to "tattle" on co-workers but I certainly don't feel it's inappropriate to address them personally if you're aware of something major they're doing (and shouldn't be) at work rather than taking it upon oneself to run to the boss and tell what you think you know. I can see this issue from all sides but I tend to agree with you, rulemylife, in that oftentimes those who see it as their mission to inform on others are just a bit self-righteous and self-important. I'm NOT saying that anyone here who has taken that position are those things. I'm just saying that in my own life and own experience, I see the point that rulemylife has made. When one fashions him/herself as the judge of what should be and consistently finds him/herself "reporting on" co-workers, it may not be integrity that's guiding him/her. At least by my definition. Good discussion y'all....................luci

rulemylife -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 7:47:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 No one should ever be at work "tipsy" Its unprofessional and a safety issue and is a bad projection of values that you would think that o.k. I have read this thread through twice. Whether it's a safety issue would depend on the job, don't you think? I never said it was OK. I mentioned it as an example of a minor mistake someone might make that hopefully they wouldn't get crucified for by the self-annointed protectors of professionalism.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 7:50:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Did you, at any point, try to resolve these issues face-to-face with the person involved? I think this is a very valid question. When this thread first began, I read several of the posts and was discussing the issue with my Master. That was the point He made. In His opinion - and mine - taking it to the person involved first demonstrates integrity. Obviously there may be some instances where that's not the best solution but I would venture that, in many instances, it's certainly a viable option. I have never been one to "tattle" on co-workers but I certainly don't feel it's inappropriate to address them personally if you're aware of something major they're doing (and shouldn't be) at work rather than taking it upon oneself to run to the boss and tell what you think you know. I can see this issue from all sides but I tend to agree with you, rulemylife, in that oftentimes those who see it as their mission to inform on others are just a bit self-righteous and self-important. I'm NOT saying that anyone here who has taken that position are those things. I'm just saying that in my own life and own experience, I see the point that rulemylife has made. When one fashions him/herself as the judge of what should be and consistently finds him/herself "reporting on" co-workers, it may not be integrity that's guiding him/her. At least by my definition. Good discussion y'all....................luci This is a valid point. However, unless you are the boss, usually the person is not going to listen. Most Whistleblowers dont blow the whistle over one minor incident. Its usually a pattern and something of a serious nature.

slaveluci -> RE: Lip service (12/12/2008 7:58:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 This is a valid point. However, unless you are the boss, usually the person is not going to listen I've found that not to be the case. Say for instance you see a co-worker stealing. To me, it's best to go to them privately and say something like: "Look, Jane. I saw you stealing that (fill in the blank) and I don't appreciate you putting me in this position. If I don't say anything about it, I'm basically your accomplice in your theft. Therefore, you're basically forcing me to go tell unless you step up and give the (fill in the blank) back. If I saw you, it's inevitable others have/will also and you're putting us all in a screwed-up position. Stop this shit." You'd be amazed how effective that can be. I've seen it work. And it leaves me feeling I have much more integrity by directly confronting the problem head on rather than running to tell someone else so they can. Just my own personal experience. quote: Most Whistleblowers dont blow the whistle over one minor incident. Its usually a pattern and something of a serious nature. "Whistleblowers," sure. That's true. But I don't consider your everyday, run-of-the-mill tattler to be a real "whistleblower." As was mentioned earlier, a whistleblower is what I consider someone who blows some corruption wide open, risking everything. Running to the boss everytime a coworker offends your own definition of what's right or professional don't a whistleblower make[;)]. It's a very interesting question and I enjoy reading different perspectives. I just happen to think rulemylife is pretty spot-on as I've seen my share of the "self appointed protectors of professionalism" and I happen to think they usually lack the integrity they preach so much about. Just my take................luci

NorthernGent -> RE: Lip service (12/13/2008 2:34:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin The world really is going to hell in a hand basket and most people are along for the ride because they can’t find enough courage within themselves to get off the train. I don’t know why I can’t seem to let go of my expectation that most people are basically good, decent human beings who will do what’s right. It causes me to be continually disappointed in the human race. People/the world is fairly consistent over time. Yeah, we have our superficial perks and amusement, such as the internet and travel abroad, that didn't exist a few years back; but, ultimately, people remain driven by the same needs and display the same behaviour. The world really isn't a place where the streets are paved with gold, nor is it a place inhabited by thieves and charlatans: for every drop of spite, you'll find a drop of generosity; for every drop of deceit, you'll find a drop of honesty. It really depends on you, and that which you choose to see in the world. Out of curiosity, what constitutes a 'good', 'decent' and 'right' human being?

NorthernGent -> RE: Lip service (12/13/2008 8:40:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 With regards to your thread title----"Lip Service"....A good rule of thumb that I live by....When someone talks a line about how ethical they are, how honest they are, how real they are etc etc, they are usually anything but. I always take big talkers as a red flag. If you are honest, and ethical and genuine etc, you just are, you don't need to be pointing it out continually. I always think of lip service as classic over-compensation. Big talkers know that they actually lack what they claim to have in spades. Some people mean what they say. There's a saying in the North East of England: 'shy bairns get no broth', which means that you have to put yourself forward to get what you want. We're all salesmen in one form or another; the defining factor is whether or not you are good for your word. Were I you, I wouldn't tar everyone with the brush.

NuevaVida -> RE: Lip service (12/13/2008 9:32:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida I think you have jumped to a lot of really incorrect conclusions here, without knowing any of the details or even asking about them, and launched ignorant, incorrect and unfair criticisms as a result. What does that say of you? Ok, let me ask you one major detail. Did you, at any point, try to resolve these issues face-to-face with the person involved? No. It was not my place to approach officers of the company and tell them I knew what they were up to. Plus, I wanted to keep my job. It was my place - and an expectation of my position - to report such behaviors up the ladder. Tell me - would YOU approach a CFO and say "I know you're drinking on the job and fudging the books, and I think you should stop" ? You see, if someone is behaving in criminal/illegal activity, I don't feel the need to approach them directly - I report it to authorities. That goes whether it's someone burglarizing my neighbor's home, or someone at work sexually harassing an employee.

NuevaVida -> RE: Lip service (12/13/2008 9:37:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife There is a big difference between addressing serious situations that involve safety issues or major corruption and sneaking around behind your co-workers backs to inform on someone who may have come into work a little tipsy because he/she stayed out too late celebrating a special occasion the night before. Tell me how criminal activity is not major corruption, please. Not sure where you got the "little tipsy" part. This particular CEO was an alcoholic, who kept a flask in his desk, along with a fraudulent set of books. I wonder, if that doesn't define corrupt, how YOU define it??? Edited to add: Perhaps it would ease your mind to know I didn't rat out the executive assistant who readily drank too much at lunch and then "napped it off" in her bosses office (while he was away) before returning to work? Nor did I rat out the person stealing office supplies. Etc. You seem to be throwing me and others into a miscategorization here, which goes back to you making incorrect and ignorant assumptions.

NuevaVida -> RE: Lip service (12/13/2008 9:43:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci It's a very interesting question and I enjoy reading different perspectives. I just happen to think rulemylife is pretty spot-on as I've seen my share of the "self appointed protectors of professionalism" and I happen to think they usually lack the integrity they preach so much about. Just my take................luci Except rulemylife is arguing apples to oranges. He says he respects whistleblowers and when I have pointed out a clear case of whistleblowing, he downplays it to tattling on a co-worker.

slaveluci -> RE: Lip service (12/13/2008 10:49:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida Except rulemylife is arguing apples to oranges. He says he respects whistleblowers and when I have pointed out a clear case of whistleblowing, he downplays it to tattling on a co-worker. Well, I guess it all depends on what he or anyone defines "whistleblowing" as. As I said, to me it involves someone taking personal risk upon themselves to expose widespread corruption or something of the like. There is a definite difference between that and "tattling" for sure. One can't really know what one would do until in a certain situation but I have always found that confronting the offender directly works best. However, in your case about it being the CFO, that does put a whole other slant on it and requires a different course of action. I don't feel, though, that is what is involved in many/most of the situations most of us face routinely at work. Corrupt CFO's are hopefully not something we encounter everyday but I think we often do encounter lazy, sloppy, thieving co-workers in our day-to-day worklife. I can personally say that I haven't found many at all but maybe I've just been blessed with good workplaces. In the example I gave above about seeing a co-worker stealing, I wouldn't hesitate to say what I wrote - to go straight to him/her and lay it out. To me, that action has more integrity than running behind her back to the boss to tell all. Maybe if she's confronted by me and told in no uncertain terms that it better stop, she'll shape up. If not, it'll catch up with her eventually. I've always found that we reap what we sow in time, good or bad. This has been an interesting thread but for the animosity. It really makes one stop and think about what integrity means and how our actions need to reflect it. Hope you're still doing well and healing up[:)]....................luci

NuevaVida -> RE: Lip service (12/13/2008 12:24:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci Corrupt CFO's are hopefully not something we encounter everyday but I think we often do encounter lazy, sloppy, thieving co-workers in our day-to-day worklife. I can personally say that I haven't found many at all but maybe I've just been blessed with good workplaces. In the example I gave above about seeing a co-worker stealing, I wouldn't hesitate to say what I wrote - to go straight to him/her and lay it out. To me, that action has more integrity than running behind her back to the boss to tell all. Maybe if she's confronted by me and told in no uncertain terms that it better stop, she'll shape up. If not, it'll catch up with her eventually. I've always found that we reap what we sow in time, good or bad. This has been an interesting thread but for the animosity. It really makes one stop and think about what integrity means and how our actions need to reflect it. Hope you're still doing well and healing up[:)]....................luci Hi luci, I agree that most often one will just encounter crappy employees doing crappy things, and I also would just address it directly with them. What I was arguing with rulemylife about is he seemed to assume what I was talking about was crappy employees and he questioned my integrity without knowing the facts. What I was also trying to spell out to him was the cases I was speaking of in this thread were indeed cases about corrupt and illegal/criminal behavior...yet he didn't seem to want to address that. I have no animosity at all, however. Just pointing out what I feel was wrong with his argument. That said, I'm still hobbling around rather painfully but doing well, thanks for the well wishes :)

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