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RE: Lip service - 12/8/2008 9:23:53 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I think maybe you need more coffee.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Lip service - 12/8/2008 9:24:52 AM   
Icarys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I think maybe you need more coffee.

I think you need less.


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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Lip service - 12/8/2008 9:58:47 AM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline 		And I think you both need to knock this off.

XI


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Lip service - 12/8/2008 9:59:13 AM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

In this lifestyle we often hear people speak of integrity, honesty. Everyone claims to value them. Life teaches me more each day though that very few people actually apply very little of them to their lives…or only if it’s convenient at the time or doesn’t upset the overall apple cart. When it comes to actually putting your money where your mouth is I find that most people will take the easy route…or the route that makes them “look” the best. That or they just won’t commit to any position at all…sitting on the fence watching it all play out…a safe distance from possibly being soiled by any of the flying shit. God forbid they actually make a stand…especially when it’s an unpopular one…even when it is the right thing to do. It’s so much easier to turn a blind eye or pretend you just never saw.

I’m sick to death of fake people…people who talk a good line but fall far short of the mark when confronted with the tough decisions. People who can look at a situation and see the unbelievable wrongness of it…yet refuse to take a stand against it. Sometimes doing the right thing is the hardest thing to do.  And I’m especially sickened by people who present themselves as having and valuing integrity and honesty…but upon closer look you find out that it’s all just talk.

I’m finding that the type of people that I want anywhere near my life are few. The world really is going to hell in a hand basket and most people are along for the ride because they can’t find enough courage within themselves to get off the train. I don’t know why I can’t seem to let go of my expectation that most people are basically good, decent human beings who will do what’s right. It causes me to be continually disappointed in the human race.

Sorry…just a rant. Particularly disappointed in people lately. Me, Sir and a remote cabin on a mountain top somewhere is sounding pretty appealing.


Well when you look at all the bad traits in people that are encouraged and accepted today does it surprise you? People lie to each other as a matter of course. Most people like things easy. The world is on a slide down and doesn't know anything is wrong. If you are a person with honor or integrity you will stand out...  as abnormal. Because you are. People tend to dislike those people because they remind them of the principles the claim to have but really lack. And that pisses them off. Which draws their anger down on you instead of correcting themselves. Liars look bad in contrast to honest people.

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(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Lip service - 12/8/2008 10:07:43 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline 		I make stands for what I believe are rights and wrongs but I also know that a good bit of wrongs and rights are subjective so I keep my opinions to myself unless I see it as harm to an individual.

on the flip side: I sure as hell could care less if others take a bad view on what I choose to do and say. I live my life according to my ideas of what integrity and honor are not anyone else's.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Lip service - 12/8/2008 11:01:06 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Hi Erin,

Whatever has happened that has upset you so, I hope you find peace again.

I do disagree, however, that people are not (generally) inherently good. Having had more than my share of emotional burns, I still do very much believe in the goodness of people, because I have seen far more good than bad in my personal life. That said, there are indeed "bad" people out there, everywhere. This "lifestyle" is not immune to it. I hope when the clouds clear you will see that love and goodness are abundant.

May you find comfort in those close to you, hon. Big hugs to you.

well said!


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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Lip service - 12/8/2008 11:09:21 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

I don’t know why I can’t seem to let go of my expectation that most people are basically good, decent human beings who will do what’s right. It causes me to be continually disappointed in the human race.

People are basically good and decent, and most want to do the right thing. As you have noted, however, doing what's right is not always easy. What's even harder is knowing what that right thing is to do.

People are imperfect creatures. Despite that, they are still fun creatures to have around (especially those soft curvy female ones!). I prefer to temper my expectations with an understanding of human frailty, and celebrate those times when human goodness triumphs over that frailty. Not only keeps my moods brighter, but it keeps a few more people around me--and I hate being totally alone!

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(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Lip service - 12/8/2008 12:42:27 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		There are some who will stand up and speak up.  When the hospital lied about my (adult) son and his condition because they were covering their tail ends and other agencies in town helped to cover things up to help their friends in the hospital, only two in the many, many people stood up with their identity available.  The two who could have lost the most. 

I will never forget that moment when she identified me and told me that she and another felt I should know the truth.  One other did it through email and then hid.  I was thankful for them all and I set out to protect them if need be, but the fact that they risked their job and maybe even their own safety as these people were very aggressive in protecting themselves and would have done further harm to my son had I not fought them and won that battle, was a blessing to me.  In all the months of torment, the things that hospital did and then the other agencies helping... a few standing up for what was right was something that I could hold on to to help me not be so tormented over it all.  Had they not done this, I might have felt a bit like you do mistoferin.

Whatever has happened... and it does sound very bad... I hope that the best that can happen, will.  I really don't know what to say.  I am at a loss here.  I do hope you can find some ease in the situation.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Lip service - 12/8/2008 1:48:30 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

One thing that I have learned over the years is that no two people are the same, and that no two people will take the same stand. What I perceive to be right and wrong means very little to the person who stands next me.  Our values are different, our morals are different, what defines our lives are different, and our loyalties are different.

I can not condemn a person simply because they do not have the same lines drawn that I do; what's  more, I absolutly refuse to condemn them simply because they do not conform to what I see as honorable.

Just me, but there it is.


Nicely said, IM.  It is the same way I look at things.  I may not agree with something you have done but given that you are human, unless you have committed murder, I won't condemn you because I've done some less-than-honorable...by some people's standards...things.  I've been in the service...wrong in some people's eyes.  I was a trained sniper...a job that, if I'd had to fulfill it, would have made me wrong in many more people's  eyes.  I left my wife...wrong in some people's eyes.  I have something in my profile about standards and the difficulty of living up to them.

There are a lot of people who don't like what I do or what I say or who I am.  I've given up trying to make everyone like me.  I have honor and I have integrity and I have loyalty and I am a good friend...plenty of people on here and plenty of people on the outside will tell you that.  I am also an outrageous flirt, a sarcastic smart-ass, a person that teases, a person that is not all that environmentally conscious, a conservative and a person who sometimes forgets that the written word does not, nor can it, carry all the meaning that voice-to-voice contact does.  But...if you compare me to Joe Blow, I may not seem as full of integrity or honor or loyalty or faith or knowledge or what-have-you as Joe Blow does because I am being measured against your standards or his or someone else's.  But there again, someone else may compare me to Joe Blow and I will come out on top.  One thing I do not do is rely just on other people's accounting of something...if someone has told me of a situation in which Joe has been an asshole, I don't really care how many other people tell me that Joe has been an asshole...I want to hear from Joe himself and, if possible, I want to hear from people on Joe's side.  Then I will make a decision for myself but at least it will be made with as many sides of the story as I can get.

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Lip service - 12/9/2008 9:01:54 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Must be difficult to bear the huge weight of all that integrity.



I have never seen integrity as being a burden that one must carry.... but each to their own...  I just know that I will avoid those that consider it a burden.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Lip service - 12/9/2008 10:30:41 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Must be difficult to bear the huge weight of all that integrity.



I have never seen integrity as being a burden that one must carry.... but each to their own...  I just know that I will avoid those that consider it a burden.


Apparently you avoid the context of comments as well.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Lip service - 12/9/2008 10:55:46 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Must be difficult to bear the huge weight of all that integrity.



I have never seen integrity as being a burden that one must carry.... but each to their own...  I just know that I will avoid those that consider it a burden.


Apparently you avoid the context of comments as well.


I wonder what you define integrity to be, if you feel it is a "weight" for someone. I read and re-read your posts here, and what I'm getting from them is sarcasm toward someone who is comfortable with the integrity she holds. We all have different levels and/or definitions of integrity. Remaining one's integrity typically comes naturally, and is not a burden at all. And while I know you meant your words as a snipe to someone who outs her co-workers (which, btw, I have had to out co-workers too, who were being unethical and sacrificing the wellness of the company - one of those co-workers was my CEO), but I wonder why you would make such a snipe? She didn't say what she is outing her co-workers about. Is it ok if she outs someone who is stealing? Drinking on the job? Sexually harrassing? In my opinion, I would question one's integrity who looked the other way about such things. I wonder about someone who has a problem with that...but hey we're all different.

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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Lip service - 12/9/2008 12:49:44 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I don’t know why I can’t seem to let go of my expectation that most people are basically good, decent human beings who will do what’s right. It causes me to be continually disappointed in the human race.



Decent and flawed aren't mutually exclusive.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Lip service - 12/9/2008 3:41:30 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nueva

I wonder what you define integrity to be, if you feel it is a "weight" for someone. I read and re-read your posts here, and what I'm getting from them is sarcasm toward someone who is comfortable with the integrity she holds. We all have different levels and/or definitions of integrity. Remaining one's integrity typically comes naturally, and is not a burden at all. And while I know you meant your words as a snipe to someone who outs her co-workers (which, btw, I have had to out co-workers too, who were being unethical and sacrificing the wellness of the company - one of those co-workers was my CEO), but I wonder why you would make such a snipe? She didn't say what she is outing her co-workers about. Is it ok if she outs someone who is stealing? Drinking on the job? Sexually harrassing? In my opinion, I would question one's integrity who looked the other way about such things. I wonder about someone who has a problem with that...but hey we're all different.


What she, and you, did say was this was necessary many times. 

If there is serious wrongdoing I can respect a whistleblower.

How many times does the average person encounter such serious situations that require that?

My guess is, if you have had to do it so often, what you call integrity your co-workers call pompous self-righteousness. 

Either that or you use your "integrity" as a convenient excuse to denigrate your co-workers for self-advancement.

In the famed words of a great American philosopher:


Mike Brady:
 
Cindy, you know by tattling on your friends, you're really just tattling on yourself. By tattling on your friends, you're just telling them that you're a tattletale. Now is that the tale you want to tell?

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Lip service - 12/9/2008 5:07:17 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I don’t know why I can’t seem to let go of my expectation that most people are basically good, decent human beings who will do what’s right. It causes me to be continually disappointed in the human race.



Decent and flawed aren't mutually exclusive.


I agree.  I'd admit to making some fuck-ups in my personal life but professionally, I do the right thing always.  In the overall scheme of things...helping others through my time and resources, helping the elderly gentleman put things in his car at the store, helping the elderly lady across the busy street, going to see folks who befriended my mother when she was in the nursing home, I'm a pretty decent guy.  Personally, depending on who you speak with, I am either a decent guy or a hell of a guy, a patient and understanding guy who listens to all sides before I make decisions, or I'm an asshole. 

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Lip service - 12/9/2008 6:20:30 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
What she, and you, did say was this was necessary many times. 

If there is serious wrongdoing I can respect a whistleblower.

How many times does the average person encounter such serious situations that require that?

My guess is, if you have had to do it so often, what you call integrity your co-workers call pompous self-righteousness. 

Either that or you use your "integrity" as a convenient excuse to denigrate your co-workers for self-advancement.

In the famed words of a great American philosopher:


Rulemylife,
i've opted to ignore Your desperate pleas for my attention up until  now.....You are right...i did say 'many times' because in reality.........it has been........many times.  Would You like the specifics: well let's see, there was the time a co-worker was allowing clients to come over to her home, another one who was drinking and getting high with clients, another one who was having sex with clients, another one who was attempting to manipulate a client into signing over her parental rights to a child so that she could adopt the child. More recently it's been things such as: a person i supervise dating and screwing a person who was her personal client only a week previously.  i find these behaviors not only illegal, immoral, and unethical but down right wrong!! Truth is, Kyra and Knight have it right. In my professional life, i don't really care if my co-workers like me. i do however, notice that at every job i've had my co-workers and supervisors love me. Why? Because they know my word is my bond. i say what i mean and i mean what i say. In my experience, it takes a whole lot more pressure, stress, and turmoil to keep my mouth shut than it does to walk into whomever's office and lay the facts at their feet. Where it goes from there, is none of my business. But, i've done my part in the situation.
i agree with Creative Dominant. In my personal life, i make mistakes every freaking day....Damn near every freaking hour. But, generally, those are mistake i learn from. In my professional life my integrity, values, morals and what not are all intact. You can bank on that.
Kali

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~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Lip service - 12/9/2008 8:27:38 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nueva

I wonder what you define integrity to be, if you feel it is a "weight" for someone. I read and re-read your posts here, and what I'm getting from them is sarcasm toward someone who is comfortable with the integrity she holds. We all have different levels and/or definitions of integrity. Remaining one's integrity typically comes naturally, and is not a burden at all. And while I know you meant your words as a snipe to someone who outs her co-workers (which, btw, I have had to out co-workers too, who were being unethical and sacrificing the wellness of the company - one of those co-workers was my CEO), but I wonder why you would make such a snipe? She didn't say what she is outing her co-workers about. Is it ok if she outs someone who is stealing? Drinking on the job? Sexually harrassing? In my opinion, I would question one's integrity who looked the other way about such things. I wonder about someone who has a problem with that...but hey we're all different.


What she, and you, did say was this was necessary many times. 

If there is serious wrongdoing I can respect a whistleblower.

How many times does the average person encounter such serious situations that require that?

My guess is, if you have had to do it so often, what you call integrity your co-workers call pompous self-righteousness. 

Either that or you use your "integrity" as a convenient excuse to denigrate your co-workers for self-advancement.

In the famed words of a great American philosopher:


Mike Brady:
 
Cindy, you know by tattling on your friends, you're really just tattling on yourself. By tattling on your friends, you're just telling them that you're a tattletale. Now is that the tale you want to tell?



Read again. I did not say I did this many times. But if I did, so what? Maybe I worked there for 20 years. Maybe I work for a shitty company. Maybe maybe maybe.

For the record, I am and always have been extremely respected at work. I am the one others come to for advice on how to handle something. One of the "many/not-so-many" outings was because a co-worker came to me about her boss - a senior vice president - blatantly sexually harassing her and not knowing what to do about it. Because I was the assistant to the CEO, I had an obligation to tell him, and I told her this, before she shared much further.

Another time was when our Regional CEO was conducting unethical business practices which were harming the well being of others. When the corporate office sent a senior guru out to check things out in our office, I had an hour long meeting with him in which I laid out all I knew. I was applauded by many for this.

Hmm, another time our CFO was drinking on the job, and keeping a separate set of books to reflect false numbers of how we were doing. Yep, I outed him, too. In all of these occasions, it was the absolutely right thing to do, and I stood by my decision. One of the issues resulted in a law suit in which I was called as a witness. I contacted the corporate CEO about it and spoke to him directly, asking for his blessing to talk to the attorney (this was after I left the company, too, but I wanted to be sure what I was doing was right. He gave it to me. We are still in touch to this day, some 15 years later.

No pompous self-righteousness, no trying to advance myself. Just doing the right thing. I eventually left that company (after 7 years of employment with them) because it was too internally corrupt, and working for the CEO had me taking part in unethical practices, which I wouldn't do. I remain in touch with many former co-workers to this day.

I think you have jumped to a lot of really incorrect conclusions here, without knowing any of the details or even asking about them, and launched ignorant, incorrect and unfair criticisms as a result. What does that say of you?

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Lip service - 12/11/2008 11:24:24 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Must be difficult to bear the huge weight of all that integrity.



I have never seen integrity as being a burden that one must carry.... but each to their own...  I just know that I will avoid those that consider it a burden.


Apparently you avoid the context of comments as well.


No.... I am thinking that I addressed the context rather directly.... you just don't like the answer...  Which is not a surprize to me since i believe that acceptance of personal responsibility is very much tied to a person having Integrity... since you seem to think integrity is a burden... I wouldn't be surprized that you find responsibility to be a burden as well.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Lip service - 12/12/2008 12:09:01 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

No.... I am thinking that I addressed the context rather directly.... you just don't like the answer...  Which is not a surprize to me since i believe that acceptance of personal responsibility is very much tied to a person having Integrity... since you seem to think integrity is a burden... I wouldn't be surprized that you find responsibility to be a burden as well.


No, I'm thinking you don't understand the term context anymore clearly than you understand the concept of a facetious remark.


< Message edited by rulemylife -- 12/12/2008 12:10:49 PM >

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Lip service - 12/12/2008 12:22:17 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

Rulemylife,
i've opted to ignore Your desperate pleas for my attention up until  now.....You are right...i did say 'many times' because in reality.........it has been........many times.  Would You like the specifics: well let's see, there was the time a co-worker was allowing clients to come over to her home, another one who was drinking and getting high with clients, another one who was having sex with clients, another one who was attempting to manipulate a client into signing over her parental rights to a child so that she could adopt the child. More recently it's been things such as: a person i supervise dating and screwing a person who was her personal client only a week previously.  i find these behaviors not only illegal, immoral, and unethical but down right wrong!! Truth is, Kyra and Knight have it right. In my professional life, i don't really care if my co-workers like me. i do however, notice that at every job i've had my co-workers and supervisors love me. Why? Because they know my word is my bond. i say what i mean and i mean what i say. In my experience, it takes a whole lot more pressure, stress, and turmoil to keep my mouth shut than it does to walk into whomever's office and lay the facts at their feet. Where it goes from there, is none of my business. But, i've done my part in the situation.



Desperate pleas for your attention?

Wow!!!!!!!!

I don't even believe I have ever responded to a post of yours before. 

Trust me, despite your over-inflated sense of yourself, I would have made the same response to your comments no matter who you were.

Of course, that attitude may well explain why you think it is your place to be police and judge in your workplace.


< Message edited by rulemylife -- 12/12/2008 12:42:32 PM >

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 60
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