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porcelain26 -> For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 3:09:37 PM)

So, I'm reading a book called "The Surrendered Single" by Laura Doyle, and it's basically a 'dating how-to' which emphasises that women will attract more men by being feminine, and also by relinquishing control over the men they date. The concept is that the only thing within a person's control is themself; you can't control outside forces, so stop trying and save yourself the heartache, hassle, and worry. The book talks about how, by trying to control every aspect of a relationship, a woman will actually find herself without any relationship at all, because that kind of behavior drives away the very men she's trying to attract. To quote the book: "The more feminine you are, the more mascule he'll feel. Together, you'll complement each other beautifully." It encourages women to be open, receptive, and available to meeting the right guy, by not holding each man she meets to impossible standards and by not trying to control him.

As a submissive woman, I'm very attracted to this book and this concept for a number of reasons (there is also another book by the same author entitled "The Surrendered Wife" which gives the same theories only for those women who are already married and in long term relationships). I'm naturally inclined to let any man I'm with be in control, but as a smart, capable, independent woman, I still find myself making all kinds of mistakes which are discussed, for example: brushing off compliments, refusing offered help, ducking my head instead of smiling at people, etc.

So here is my question for Dominants (both men and women): do you find that you're more attracted to women who graciously receive everything that you offer, whether it be dinner, help with something, or in our lifestyle case, tips on proper bodily alignment during bondage *grins*? And dominant women, do you find that submissive men are more attracted to you if you allow them the opportunity to please you in any way (whether it be by buying you dinner, helping you with something or giving you a backrub after tying them up *grins*)?

And for submissives:
The same question but in reverse...do you find dominants are more attracted to you if you allow them to be more in control even in simple ways (such as those mentioned above)?

I know this might not be real clear and concise and I apologize, but I hope I made some sense hehe.



Lockit -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 3:18:50 PM)

How about the concept of everyone being themselves?  If one is to act or try to be more feminine... so that he will be more... manly man... isn't that rather manipulative and at some point if it is forced, wouldn't one get a little sick of it?  Especially if it didn't pay off.

Any book, person or self help anything that advocates anything other than a person being completly themselves is something I would use for kindling.



ExSteelAgain -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 3:21:07 PM)

My knee jerk reflex is to say everyone is different and I don't put parameters on those I meet. But I know that I have for a long time usually ended up running into submissive types. So maybe there is something in the point that's what I'm looking for. But could you turn that around and say submissive women I've happened into saw me as a dominant man. Who the fuck knows?



marie2 -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 3:26:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain26

So, I'm reading a book called "The Surrendered Single" by Laura Doyle, and it's basically a 'dating how-to' which emphasises that women will attract more men by being feminine, and also by relinquishing control over the men they date. The concept is that the only thing within a person's control is themself; you can't control outside forces, so stop trying and save yourself the heartache, hassle, and worry. The book talks about how, by trying to control every aspect of a relationship, a woman will actually find herself without any relationship at all, because that kind of behavior drives away the very men she's trying to attract. To quote the book: "The more feminine you are, the more mascule he'll feel. Together, you'll complement each other beautifully." It encourages women to be open, receptive, and available to meeting the right guy, by not holding each man she meets to impossible standards and by not trying to control him.

As a submissive woman, I'm very attracted to this book and this concept for a number of reasons (there is also another book by the same author entitled "The Surrendered Wife" which gives the same theories only for those women who are already married and in long term relationships). I'm naturally inclined to let any man I'm with be in control, but as a smart, capable, independent woman, I still find myself making all kinds of mistakes which are discussed, for example: brushing off compliments, refusing offered help, ducking my head instead of smiling at people, etc.

So here is my question for Dominants (both men and women): do you find that you're more attracted to women who graciously receive everything that you offer, whether it be dinner, help with something, or in our lifestyle case, tips on proper bodily alignment during bondage *grins*? And dominant women, do you find that submissive men are more attracted to you if you allow them the opportunity to please you in any way (whether it be by buying you dinner, helping you with something or giving you a backrub after tying them up *grins*)?

And for submissives:
The same question but in reverse...do you find dominants are more attracted to you if you allow them to be more in control even in simple ways (such as those mentioned above)?

I know this might not be real clear and concise and I apologize, but I hope I made some sense hehe.


I don't really try to adjust who I am.  I guess I'm mostly feminine, but I don't think femininty equals submissive either--or that masculinity equals dominant.  And I don't believe that the only thing within my control is myself.  I believe, in general, that we have an enormous amount of control and influence over people and situations around us. That said,  I don't think I've ever noticed a pattern with regard to my level of submission necessarily matching up to someone's level of attraction to me.  And I really wouldn't want to behave in a way that wasn't completely me, just so I could attract someone.  I have no doubt that I'm capable of that, but then where would that leave me once I stopped acting like someone else and realized that I was stuck with someone who really doesn't match me well.

Not sure if I answered your questions. 



porcelain26 -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 3:30:21 PM)

The book doesn't advocate being something you're not, nor (do I feel) is it about manipulation. It's about not trying to control every aspect of every situation, and by surrendering that control, making yourself more open and available, being able to attract more positive attention. I don't think I'm explaining this very well as I'm more than a little sleep deprived at the moment. Arg, maybe I outta just shut up until I've had some sleep and can be coherant....sorry everyone!

*edited because that REALLY didn't make sense



sambamanslilgirl -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 3:31:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain26

And for submissives:
The same question but in reverse...do you find dominants are more attracted to you if you allow them to be more in control even in simple ways (such as those mentioned above)?


it doesn't bother me that dominants may not find me attractive because i will not allow them to be more in control (ie ordering my dinner, etc). most are probably terrified of my aggressive, stubborn, independent and opinionated nature too. what matters most to me is that my personality attracted the right dominant for me.

being more feminine so he can feel more manly - now that to me is a bunch of crock. in today's society, you cannot be the "dasmel in distress waiting for your prince to save you" type of woman.



simpleplan2 -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 3:32:09 PM)

Nah, I read the book too.  It had some ok ideas I think but some of them were too over the top for me.  I agree with not trying to control everything but she said not to control anything.  that only works if you have a strong partner.



ResidentSadist -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 3:35:29 PM)

Thanks for turning me onto Laura's other book.  Why don't you add that to the recomended reading list in the BDSM books thread in my sig.  I have always recomended her other book and it is usually very well recieved. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Surrendered Wife : A Practical Guide to Finding Intimacy, Passion, and Peace with Your Man
by Laura Doyle
Surrendering is coming to terms with reality--that YOU are the only one YOU can change. Doyle gives practical tips and tools for replacing critical, controlling, or nagging behaviors with respect, trust and gratitude. A surrendered wife bravely and courageously commits to making a loving, nurturing marriage the most important goal of all -- and she will receive that and so much more. This book is easy to read, practical, and best of all it WORKS! 



marie2 -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 3:38:05 PM)

Nah, I don't think you should shut up or apologize. 

I think I'm wrapping around what you are saying now, but not sure why the author makes it sound like this is something exclusive to women.  I would imagine it depends on the people in the relationship.  I'm sure there are men out there who try to control a relationship or situation out of fear as well.  That issue itself could be a good angle for anyone to examine themselves on, but I don't see this being only about women.   I would say though, that it might be good food for thought for submissive types who try to fight their submissive nature. 



simpleplan2 -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 3:40:05 PM)

Good Point Marie.  Def a good book for that.



Lockit -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 3:41:05 PM)

Not trying to control everything is a good idea because if you do try to control everything, you are only going to run people off and live very frustrated.  I've found with a lot of these books, they take a half decent idea, bring in their own concepts and then some will think they are somehow faulty somehow.  I go with the old self help book... I'm okay; You're okay.

If you just wish to impart that people shouldn't try to control everything... why bring the feminine stuff into it though?  I mean, feminine is good... but what if you aren't?  Hopeless cause for finding a spouse?  I know lots of women who were not feminine or girly girl and they had a faithful and happy man standing beside them.  Go figure! 



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 4:04:08 PM)

I am attracted to graciousness, period.  Game playing and trying to APPEAR a certain way is quickly avoided.



YourhandMyAss -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 4:54:05 PM)

See, the thing is, for me to do what the book recommends would be to try to be someone/ something  I am not. I'm not super feminine I am very tomboyish,  I AM very controlling, I  do seek to control the male I date in some ways, such as setting up rules that are acceptible and are not. Like he will not have sex with any one but me, He will not play w/ith others outside of me w/ith out my permission, ect ect. And I am not willing to change that, and if it rules potentials out, well, ok they were not a good match for me anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain26

The book doesn't advocate being something you're not, nor (do I feel) is it about manipulation. It's about not trying to control every aspect of every situation, and by surrendering that control, making yourself more open and available, being able to attract more positive attention. I don't think I'm explaining this very well as I'm more than a little sleep deprived at the moment. Arg, maybe I outta just shut up until I've had some sleep and can be coherant....sorry everyone!

*edited because that REALLY didn't make sense



DesFIP -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 5:06:38 PM)

Of course she assumes that all men are dominant and want that level of control. Which we know is false, there are plenty of men who yearn to be with a strong woman who will order his dinner for him.

Her Christian focus of men are under God and women are under men annoys me. As does the fact that there are plenty of guys out there who won't offer help. A million years ago when I was a young single (I'm feeling old today), I used to occasionally answer the door for my dates with a chair right under the entry light. It was obvious to the meanest intelligence that I was changing the bulb. Most of the guys just stood there and watched me do it myself. Very few of them offered to do it for me.

So how do you graciously accept help which isn't offered?



YourhandMyAss -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 5:07:53 PM)

See it's good to learn up to a certain point, not to try to control everything, but if people do run off because you are who you are, they were not good matches nor compatible anyway. To my way of thinking. It's far better to admit you're a control freak will try to control everything and are changing it but will never be perfect, than to spring than onto someone by supprise, cause since you were trying to learn not to be controlling, you felt it wasn't worth mentioning or soemthing.


It's a joke around here with daddy and I that hey you knew .......... when we were first talking about dating and you chose to pick me anyway so you can't complain, but It's also serious in some ways. He knew I was all the things I am when we were courting and he was and is still ok with it.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Not trying to control everything is a good idea because if you do try to control everything, you are only going to run people off and live very frustrated.  I've found with a lot of these books, they take a half decent idea, bring in their own concepts and then some will think they are somehow faulty somehow.  I go with the old self help book... I'm okay; You're okay.

If you just wish to impart that people shouldn't try to control everything... why bring the feminine stuff into it though?  I mean, feminine is good... but what if you aren't?  Hopeless cause for finding a spouse?  I know lots of women who were not feminine or girly girl and they had a faithful and happy man standing beside them.  Go figure! 



Lockit -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 5:11:49 PM)

Oh... I know this one! You very sweetly ask them to please do it and EXPECT it to be done!  But I guess that might not be feminine... Feline maybe...



lally3 -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 5:13:59 PM)

hey there,

as i read your OP it reminded me of why im happily, contendidly 'here' - but largely because after having been acquiescent and malleable to a vanilla or two and got pissed on from a great height (and no im not talking about golden showers from the top of a ladder) - i am at last in the company of men who understand themselves and me.

everyone is different, but you know, looking around at vanilla relationships - its the women who keep a close, fiesty eye on their men that seem to keep em.  maybe a cultural thing, dunno (im in the UK).

and to your question.. it kinda depends on the dynamic of each and every relationship, ive had very different D/s relationships whilst remaining very much me.  but on the whole im a service orientated sub, so i tend to look for and find men who are wanting that sort of dynamic anyway.  i am wired to please (i dont always manage it but ill pretty much always give it my very best efforts unless the devil in me creeps in and i need to go awol, but happily that doesnt happen very often [&:]



MadRabbit -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 5:14:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Her Christian focus of men are under God and women are under men annoys me.


More or less. It's attempting to sell a gender based philosophy that only certain women would find fulfillment in practicing. I've read a few segments from it, but the fact that it's so gender oriented and not individual oriented really throws me off.

I don't think creating a new ideal that says women just need to go back to the good old days is a great way of combating the anti-submissive message that the feminist ideal of "Anything you can do, I can do" woman.

Why can't people just stop it with this all "natural order of the genders" crap?




Lockit -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 5:16:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

See it's good to learn up to a certain point, not to try to control everything, but if people do run off because you are who you are, they were not good matches nor compatible anyway. To my way of thinking. It's far better to admit you're a control freak will try to control everything and are changing it but will never be perfect, than to spring than onto someone by supprise, cause since you were trying to learn not to be controlling, you felt it wasn't worth mentioning or soemthing.


It's a joke around here with daddy and I that hey you knew .......... when we were first talking about dating and you chose to pick me anyway so you can't complain, but It's also serious in some ways. He knew I was all the things I am when we were courting and he was and is still ok with it.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Not trying to control everything is a good idea because if you do try to control everything, you are only going to run people off and live very frustrated.  I've found with a lot of these books, they take a half decent idea, bring in their own concepts and then some will think they are somehow faulty somehow.  I go with the old self help book... I'm okay; You're okay.

If you just wish to impart that people shouldn't try to control everything... why bring the feminine stuff into it though?  I mean, feminine is good... but what if you aren't?  Hopeless cause for finding a spouse?  I know lots of women who were not feminine or girly girl and they had a faithful and happy man standing beside them.  Go figure! 



No one can control everything.  I expect people to be themselves always.  But... you cannot control everything in a person or in life and if you try, you will be frustrated and many times people will run... not walk... away.  One who tries to control everything isn't being realistic and is no easy person to live with.  Eventually one who tries to control everything finds that they cannot and it is how they accept or don't accept that, that can sometimes pose a huge problem.



greeneyedreamer -> RE: For Dominants and submissives (12/9/2008 5:22:05 PM)

My only take on anything that asks me to have someone else control me is this: He better be smarter, and better to do it. I can't possibly follow and let a man control me if he isn't.

Hence, I wind up looking for a man who can do that. I found one, it wasn't easy!

Dreamer



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