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RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/12/2008 6:50:46 AM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
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Now I'm thinking again, trying to puzzle something out. I've mentioned 2 incidents in this thread that are not bdsm and I realized that my reaction to each was very different. The incident with the drunk at the campground triggered and upset me and yet the more recent incident with the ex getting drunk and threatening me, I stayed calm and I wasn't afraid of him and in fact would not have hesitated to both fight him and call the cops on him had it gotten to that point and it nearly did.

Why would a drunk stranger trigger me and yet the ex who abused me did not? How weird. Maybe it was the circumstances. Maybe it was because the family was there and my focus was so strongly on them and their safety, protecting them, that it didn't trigger me. I wonder.

_____________________________

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Deviant Mind
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Post #: 21

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/12/2008 7:14:33 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

*Nods* Yes I can see that it would. Did you take college courses to help you better achieve your aloof, analytical hardassness or was it strictly by self motivated studying of AAH books and practicing what you read? Do you have a degree in it?

Actually, its an image sometimes applied to me by others on CM... I tend to mock it because its not who I really am at all. I'm much more complex than that. I do possess a hard side to my nature, an aspect that has its uses. And oddly enough I did learn that hardness, though not from books. When I was younger, it was not something I was taught and so as I grew older I was unprepared for some of the deceitfulness and cruelty with which others acted, nor was I well prepared for the simple misfortunes of life... that the universe itself can at times be a very cruel place. I had to learn that hardness the hard way (which is perhaps the only way it can be learned) through a crucible of pain.

But that is still only one aspect of who I am, one fraction of the whole. So it often surprises those who only see that aspect that there is a good deal more. That, for example, I love poetry and can quote quite a store of it very passionately from memory. Or to hear me making up bed time stories for one of my young cousins. Or see me laughing like a child chasing a butterfly on a warm summer day, or splashing in puddles of water (although these days the puddles tend to be creeks and I'm on a four wheeler rather than stomping along... but the spirit that draws me is still the same... still that irrepressible and irreverent boy I never ceased to be... only grown older and stronger).

That hardness came from understanding that it was necessary to survive in this world... to survive in business, to survive the deceit of others... even to survive the fickleness of Life itself. I learned to be hardest on myself, to not tolerate foolishness in myself, to not let emotion rule my decisions in business or in life... the price for doing so was simply too high.

I have often found that hardness at odds with submissives I have known... and only on two occassions had a slave who really understood it. Those were wonderful times. The irony is that the very hardness some despised was the very thing that shielded them and allowed their own vulnerability to exist in safety. Life is truly a funny thing.

I had to grow through my pain which was not an easy process. While I might think it necessary for others to learn life's difficult leasons, to see themselves as they are... all illusions stripped away, I have no wish to be cruel about it.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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Post #: 22

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/12/2008 11:59:22 AM

FlamingRedhead

Posts: 451
Joined: 3/4/2007
From: Georgia
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I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's a coping mechanism. Mine is similar but for different reasons. I had a drunk for a step-father who loved to "punish" me for being bad...for existing....whatever. He made a paddle just for me. It was about a foot and a half long, varnished a very dark color, and had 2 holes drilled through it. It hung by a leather thong from a nail in the wall. When I was "bad," I had to fetch him the paddle and then listen to his tirade about what a bad child I was and what a good child his daughter was. Eventually, he would tell me to turn around so the spanking could begin. I was already crying and begging by this point. Most times, he had to hold me by an arm to keep me from running or falling. I'm surprised he never managed to break my fingers when my hand got in the way. Anyway, the paddle got "lost." I didn't do it, my mother did. It was a feeble attempt to stop what was going on, but it didn't work. He just started using his thick black belt or hands. The older I got, the more I tried not to give him what he wanted: a reason to punish me or satisfaction in doing it. Around puberty, I finally stood up to him. Actually, I threatened his life if he ever laid a hand on me again.

I don't cry during play or physical punishment. If it's punishment, I "might" cry afterwards depending on what was said. I once let 2 doms spank and flog me until I finally did cry just to see what it would take, and I refused to stop until all the toys had been used....except paddles. I don't do paddles. I look at them every now and then and think that maybe the black ones made of leather or something.....but the wooden ones give me the heebee-jeebeez.

My dom was going to buy a paddle from a friend's husband until I freaked out when they started discussing it. I hate feeling like a big ol' baby. The couple wouldn't even play in front of me after that because they had been planning to show off their paddle. One of these days, I'm going to master that fear because I'll be damned if I'm going to let something from 20 odd years ago keep interfering with my life.

_____________________________

I'm so addicted to
All the things you do
When you're going down on me
In between the sheets
Or the sound you make
With every breath you take
It's unlike anything
When you're loving me

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Post #: 23

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/12/2008 12:14:23 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
When I was younger, it was not something I was taught and so as I grew older I was unprepared for some of the deceitfulness and cruelty with which others acted, nor was I well prepared for the simple misfortunes of life... that the universe itself can at times be a very cruel place. I had to learn that hardness the hard way (which is perhaps the only way it can be learned) through a crucible of pain.

This comment resonates with me very significantly. I suppose in many ways, I was raised in a sheltered life with regards to the capacity of humans. In my youth I was very much surrounded by the very things people hope to have in their life and shelter from the deceit and cruelty that you speak of. Not only did I not see it, it wasn't put on the radar by my parents. I think growing into teenage years, I had a very naive outlook at first and learn alot of harsh realities as I approached adulthood. My first shock was watching a school chum die from a heroin overdose. In that incident my idealic world was shattered and I looked at my parents and others in a very different light. I became alot more suspicious of appearances and became very perceptive of things laying just under the surface in most cases. I questioned more rather than accept things at face value. I generally became less trustful of people in general and still don't trust them! I think my parents didn't do me any favors by keeping the reality of the world out of my consciousness until it was forced into my world by the world. As some one that was not into adulthood and felt I couldn't completely trust my parents... I had deep questions of the reality of being able to trust anyone. In many ways the only reason I think I have conquered much of it was because Alandra trusts me so completely. It is rather impossible to deny that a person can trust another completely when I feel trusted so completely. Rationaly.. I still don't think I have it figured out and don't know if I ever will.

We are so conditioned by our experiences.. particularly when we are young. Sometimes these conditions are postive... sometimes negative. Sometimes we see the conditioning that occured and sometimes we are completely oblivous to it. Either way.... just because we have been conditioned... doesn't mean we have to stay that way... we can change it. We can make different choices.. it just take the effective effort and time.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Post #: 24

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/12/2008 2:53:00 PM

SlaveIndigochild

Posts: 272
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

e.

Do you think I've hit on it? I believve I have. Does it seem as though I've been conditioned in my reactions and lack thereof to pain by events and situations throughout my life? Do others of you have similar experience with this?

It was great for you.....how was it for me?(Behaviourist joke).

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Formerly Prinsexx
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Post #: 25

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/12/2008 8:14:27 PM

scarlethiney

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Here is more validation... yep, you may have hit upon one reason that explains your behavior.

One of my conditioned responses, that he is trying to reverse, is when he uses a paddle I start sobbing. It has been several years now and each time he picks up that fucking paddle and with the first smack I am sobbing. Just this past weekend, the image that popped into my mind when he used it was my mom and the leather shoe she would use to spank me with.

A paddle brings me back to those moments of "not being a good girl" and of disappointing an authority figure. I am getting better though. I still cry but I don't need as much reassurance that I have been 'good' either during or after. It might take quite some time to stop crying, if I ever do.

Knight's Kyra

Krya I react the same way to being whipped with a belt. After the first 10 or so licks I often begin to cry uncontrollably. It isn't because it hurts. I like the pain.
I have never really thought about "why" I cry it just seemed as though this were some released pent up something or another. Perhaps you have hit (no pun intended)on something here.
Interesting. As a child my mother use to spank us with one of my dad's belts or with a switch.

scarlet

_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.

see my profile masterkspet

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Post #: 26

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/12/2008 8:35:23 PM

scarlethiney

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

*Nods* Yes I can see that it would. Did you take college courses to help you better achieve your aloof, analytical hardassness or was it strictly by self motivated studying of AAH books and practicing what you read? Do you have a degree in it?

Actually, its an image sometimes applied to me by others on CM... I tend to mock it because its not who I really am at all. I'm much more complex than that. I do possess a hard side to my nature, an aspect that has its uses. And oddly enough I did learn that hardness, though not from books. When I was younger, it was not something I was taught and so as I grew older I was unprepared for some of the deceitfulness and cruelty with which others acted, nor was I well prepared for the simple misfortunes of life... that the universe itself can at times be a very cruel place. I had to learn that hardness the hard way (which is perhaps the only way it can be learned) through a crucible of pain.

But that is still only one aspect of who I am, one fraction of the whole. So it often surprises those who only see that aspect that there is a good deal more. That, for example, I love poetry and can quote quite a store of it very passionately from memory. Or to hear me making up bed time stories for one of my young cousins. Or see me laughing like a child chasing a butterfly on a warm summer day, or splashing in puddles of water (although these days the puddles tend to be creeks and I'm on a four wheeler rather than stomping along... but the spirit that draws me is still the same... still that irrepressible and irreverent boy I never ceased to be... only grown older and stronger).

That hardness came from understanding that it was necessary to survive in this world... to survive in business, to survive the deceit of others... even to survive the fickleness of Life itself. I learned to be hardest on myself, to not tolerate foolishness in myself, to not let emotion rule my decisions in business or in life... the price for doing so was simply too high.

I have often found that hardness at odds with submissives I have known... and only on two occassions had a slave who really understood it. Those were wonderful times. The irony is that the very hardness some despised was the very thing that shielded them and allowed their own vulnerability to exist in safety. Life is truly a funny thing.

I had to grow through my pain which was not an easy process. While I might think it necessary for others to learn life's difficult leasons, to see themselves as they are... all illusions stripped away, I have no wish to be cruel about it.

Padriag,
I have never witnessed this vulnerable side of you. It is quite an appealing and refreshing perspective. I am ashamed to admit that I had a very different view of you before this very revealing post.
Although I doubt you will disappoint anyone by continuing to present yourself as "hardassed" I for one appreciate your honesty and the depth with which you've shared yourself here. Thank you!

scarlet

_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.

see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 27

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/12/2008 8:48:15 PM

scarlethiney

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline

SassySarijane I do think you've hit on something here. You and Knight's Kyra both are making me wonder if my experiences as a child have a lot to do with my reactions while being beaten.

For a long time I was very much like you in that when being confronted became very quiet. I still become very quiet and non -reactionary when confronted but I can also exhibit an authority I didn't possess as a young adult. Perhaps age and maturity give us more strength and resolve. I agree defense of family spurs us to be fearless.
Interesting post thanks.

scarlet

_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.

see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 28

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/12/2008 11:21:23 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

Padriag,
I have never witnessed this vulnerable side of you. It is quite an appealing and refreshing perspective. I am ashamed to admit that I had a very different view of you before this very revealing post.
Although I doubt you will disappoint anyone by continuing to present yourself as "hardassed" I for one appreciate your honesty and the depth with which you've shared yourself here. Thank you!

scarlet

Its a side of me that doesn't often have an opportunity to be seen here. I don't often talk about the tragedies of my life, not because I can't... but because I figure most of the time people don't want to hear it. In my life, especially my day to day life... I am VERY much looked to for leadership. There's not much chance in my day to day life either to be "vulnerable" or even "normal". Most people expect a leader to be confident, strong and in control... because it makes them feel safer, and I'm stuck with that whether I wanted it or not. Want to hear about the tragedies of my life, I'm comfortable discussing them... but people rarely ask... so I rarely talk about it. Usually, people want me to give them answers, ideas, and not let them get away with BSing themselves. So most of the time, I get to be the hardass. Isn't very often people ask me to quote poetry on here. Want to really see some emotion from me, ask me to sing The Minstrel Boy in person sometime... I get maybe two lines out before the tears are streaming down my cheeks and I'm too choked up to continue... that song carries a LOT of personal meaning to me. Yet even then I don't feel vulnerable... I just don't see it that way. Then again I always was an odd bird.

But I understand very well that for most to "connect" to me on a personal level, they need to see those emotional response, they need to see "vulnerability". I've honestly never much concerned myself with it online because I figure I'm never going to meet most of you anyway. Maybe in the future more opportunity for that will come up.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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Post #: 29

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/12/2008 11:38:26 PM

Aszhrae

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Girl seen it much earlier Padriag. Girl always knew you had a gentle side.

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Post #: 30

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/12/2008 11:58:11 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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Course I do... I have an incredibly gentle side. But, I also have an extremely harsh side... an extremely rational side... an extremely passionate side. Most people can't reconcile all that together, its too much a conundrum. To me it isn't... its balance, from that balance comes strength. That's why I choose not to dissect Sarijane's discovery... she's finding her own balance, I have no desire to deter or destroy that. But like I said... I'm an odd bird.

< Message edited by Padriag -- 12/13/2008 12:00:13 AM >

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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Post #: 31

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/13/2008 12:05:28 AM

Freakgirl4

Posts: 98
Joined: 6/27/2008
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I bought a new set of spanking implements online...and actually felt myself shudder when I pulled out a large paddle just like my Momma had.
So I hid it.

(in reply to Aszhrae)

Post #: 32

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/13/2008 12:37:25 AM

Aszhrae

Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline

Someone up somewhere must be having great fun. Every thread girl visits is just another tease.
ResidentSadist and his cage
Padriag with his many different facets which girl has been aware since his first reply to one of my threads.
Now its freakgirl4 with a friggin paddle that she hides.
Not fair.

(in reply to Freakgirl4)

Post #: 33

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/13/2008 6:42:28 AM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Actually, its an image sometimes applied to me by others on CM... I tend to mock it because its not who I really am at all. I'm much more complex than that. I do possess a hard side to my nature, an aspect that has its uses. And oddly enough I did learn that hardness, though not from books. When I was younger, it was not something I was taught and so as I grew older I was unprepared for some of the deceitfulness and cruelty with which others acted, nor was I well prepared for the simple misfortunes of life... that the universe itself can at times be a very cruel place. I had to learn that hardness the hard way (which is perhaps the only way it can be learned) through a crucible of pain.

But that is still only one aspect of who I am, one fraction of the whole. So it often surprises those who only see that aspect that there is a good deal more. That, for example, I love poetry and can quote quite a store of it very passionately from memory. Or to hear me making up bed time stories for one of my young cousins. Or see me laughing like a child chasing a butterfly on a warm summer day, or splashing in puddles of water (although these days the puddles tend to be creeks and I'm on a four wheeler rather than stomping along... but the spirit that draws me is still the same... still that irrepressible and irreverent boy I never ceased to be... only grown older and stronger).

That hardness came from understanding that it was necessary to survive in this world... to survive in business, to survive the deceit of others... even to survive the fickleness of Life itself. I learned to be hardest on myself, to not tolerate foolishness in myself, to not let emotion rule my decisions in business or in life... the price for doing so was simply too high.

I have often found that hardness at odds with submissives I have known... and only on two occassions had a slave who really understood it. Those were wonderful times. The irony is that the very hardness some despised was the very thing that shielded them and allowed their own vulnerability to exist in safety. Life is truly a funny thing.

I had to grow through my pain which was not an easy process. While I might think it necessary for others to learn life's difficult leasons, to see themselves as they are... all illusions stripped away, I have no wish to be cruel about it.

I can see where others would apply that label to you, but to me you just tend to come across as blunt. Different perceptions, I suppose. I tend to be blunt so that's how I see what others label more harshly.

My upbringing, even with some abuse, was still very sheltered. I saw the world through rose colored glasses and thought adults were good and honest for the most part. I didn't know any other way. That was my world. Some of the harsher realities hit very close to adulthood and it took awhile to understand it.

What I've been through has given me a hardness and it is both a blessing and a curse. It has protected me from a lot of additional bad situations I'd have gotten into otherwise, but it has also deprived me of some good things too. It's made me cautious and suspicious of others. It's so sad that that is yet another of the prices paid from abuse and it is a long reaching price.

I love to laugh and tease and am strong and very independent in my daily life. I have responsibilities that have brought that strength and even a dominance out in me. That has caused some issues with those who seem to buy into the fantasy of if you are x you can't be y as well because it's not submissive or not dominant. Like you I am a person.

There are many, many facets to me. I am a single parent which means I have to be strong and it is my responsibility to make and carry through tough decisions. That makes me not a real submissive to the fantasy livers. I am full of laughter and teasing and sass with friends and that becomes a black mark for the fantasy livers. I enjoy serious conversations on various subjects, sitting outside looking at nature, reading, doing things with family and so much more. I'm not just a submissive, I am a person.

Why go for a one dimensional fantasy character rather than a multidimentional entire person. I know I don't want a Tarzan dom. When I decide to search for one, it will be a search for a person. One who can be dominant as well as fun loving, tender, romantic, loving, strong, and isn't afraid or a nonbeliever in showing all of themselves vs just the parts that keep the fantasy going. I see so much. I am a people watcher and I observe and listen and soak up a lot that way. I've learned a lot about what suits me personally that way as well as that those who live and believe differently are still wonderful friends and that there's no one true way.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 34

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/13/2008 12:00:43 PM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

SassySarijane I do think you've hit on something here. You and Knight's Kyra both are making me wonder if my experiences as a child have a lot to do with my reactions while being beaten.

For a long time I was very much like you in that when being confronted became very quiet. I still become very quiet and non -reactionary when confronted but I can also exhibit an authority I didn't possess as a young adult. Perhaps age and maturity give us more strength and resolve. I agree defense of family spurs us to be fearless.
Interesting post thanks.

scarlet

It could well be, but it's not just youth abuse that shapes a person. For me the bulk of the worst of the abuse I went through happened from age 19 to about 2 months before my 32nd birthday. I've come a long way in the last nearly 7 years since, even had one year long casual relationship after the last abusive one ended, but I honestly don't know when I may be ready to enter into another relationship, a commited one again. I'm still working on that, on getting to a place where I feel I can do so. I just take it a day at a time and continue to grow and strengthen.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

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Post #: 35

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/13/2008 9:32:22 PM

scarlethiney

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Course I do... I have an incredibly gentle side. But, I also have an extremely harsh side... an extremely rational side... an extremely passionate side. Most people can't reconcile all that together, its too much a conundrum. To me it isn't... its balance, from that balance comes strength. That's why I choose not to dissect Sarijane's discovery... she's finding her own balance, I have no desire to deter or destroy that. But like I said... I'm an odd bird.

Actually, "odd" is very interesting! It's obvious that your are very intelligent, opinionated and soulful. I think before these last posts I felt you were unapproachable and now I see there is much more depth your allowing us to see. I think we all have parts of ourselves we don't readily show to others especially online where I agree it's unlikely we will ever meet most of the people here.
I also understand your not wanting to offer an opinion or to analyze the Op's view of her experiences.
What makes me smile about SassySarijane is her willingness to be so open to others comments and perspectives.
That same thing Padriag is what made me smile reading your post. I find depth of emotion in a man (and a woman) very sensual and appealing.

scarlet

_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.

see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 36

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/13/2008 9:39:09 PM

scarlethiney

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
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SassySarijane I think you have grown. Your willingness to accept others opinions and comments shows great growth and understanding.
I admire your strength!

scarlet

_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.

see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 37

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/14/2008 7:08:11 AM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

Thank you, scarlet. It's usually easy for me to accept others' opinions and comments when they are expressed. It's only when they are expressed in a derogatory, nasty attitude or as one true wayism that I tend to react negatively, or even in a mean way.

Everyone is individual and has their own experiences that shape them. Padriag commented in one of his posts to me here that he hasn't had the same experience I mentioned abuse wise and so can't comment on it from that perspective and didn't feel he should dissect my epiphany and possibly do some harm (paraphrased). I can easily respect that.

If someone were to comment that I'm stupid for starting the thread, or why do I bother typing drivel no one wants to read, or that I'm wrong in my thinking because they don't believe that and therefore they are right and I am wrong, then you'd see a different reaction from me. A big part of it is how it's presented.

I've learned in the past almost 7 years that I can speak up and defend myself without worrying or fearing that I'm not good enough or won't be well liked because of my opinions and ways of thinking/doing things. I've made friends who like and respect me for myself whether I think and believe the same as them or not; and I have friends I like and respect who think and believe differently than me. That is what has helped me to grow as I have and be so accepting of different views and thoughts whether I agree with them or not.

edited for spelling.

< Message edited by SassySarijane -- 12/14/2008 7:10:23 AM >

_____________________________

Sarah2
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Wild Side Readers
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Post #: 38

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/14/2008 8:18:53 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney
I think before these last posts I felt you were unapproachable and now I see there is much more depth your allowing us to see. I think we all have parts of ourselves we don't readily show to others especially online where I agree it's unlikely we will ever meet most of the people here...
... I find depth of emotion in a man (and a woman) very sensual and appealing.

Might make the good starting point for a whole other thread.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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Post #: 39

RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain? - 12/14/2008 7:02:14 PM

Masterkspet

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Agreed Padriag!

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(in reply to Padriag)

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Conditioning Reflected in Response to Pain?

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