what is ownership? (Full Version)

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misskittyslave -> what is ownership? (12/28/2005 11:18:01 PM)

There seems to be such a varying idea of what ownership means. As each person has their own opionion on the topic i can only offer mine, to me personally, and i will state THIS IS ONLY MY VIEW, as slave, ownership is to mean that one has surrendered complete control to her/his dominant. Any freedoms, rights etc then comes from the dominants desire for how independent He/She wishes the slave to be.
For instance, if the dominant does not desire to handle the submisives money the dominant doesnt do it and leaves it up to the slave to do so. If the dominant doesnt wish to control whom the submissive speaks with or befriends then the slave must exercise their judgement and accept the consequences for all actions that this may bring upon them.

Ownership to me does not mean that the dominant MUST control all aspects of a submissive or slaves life just that They have the right to if They so desire to do so. As each relationship and situation is unique each Dominants responsability is to decide in what areas They wish to exercise Their control and it is up to the submissive to decide Whom they are going to trust and which personality meets their needs and fits them best for once they agree to submit and become that Persons property they have agreed to forfeit all rights unless given to them by that Dominant.

Any opinions?
be safe and smile for a day without a smile is a wasted day and life is too short to waste a moment of it.



IrishMist -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 2:21:33 AM)

that is my opinion of ownership also



sweetpettjenny -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 2:36:34 AM)

i agree, it is all in The dominants choice of the control they want in the relationship. The Dominant has the choices and how He/She uses their options is up to them.



tigress31047 -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 2:42:59 AM)

I totaly agree with your definition.. Master owns 2 subs ..His other has more freedom to make her own decesions than i do. He says the difference in personalities, differnce levels of wants and needs is a determining factor in how much or how litttle control one is granted
i for one neeed alot of conmtrol..(hehehehehe)
tigress



MasterRobert1 -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 4:03:39 AM)

Absolutely. A slave, being owned, gives up all rights to herself (or himself) and her (his) property. Now, just because the Master (or Mistress) has the right doesn't mean he (or she) will exercise that right. It should be the Doms choice if, and when, that right will be exercised.



kyraofMists -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 5:23:53 AM)

I may be in a minority here, but I do not see it as a matter of forfeiting “rights”, rather as a matter of giving this person authority over me. Just because I have given him the authority to control whatever he wishes to control in my life does not mean that I have given up all rights.

I have the right to remove ownership. Without my consent to obey his will, he is not my master. It takes two to make a relationship work and only one to end it. I have the right and the power to end this relationship. Just because I do not exercise this right does not mean I do not have it.

I have the right to protect my well-being. Only I can ultimately determine what will or will not harm my well-being. My opinion on what does or does not harm me will hold much weight after long discussions.

I have the right to expect him to hold to the conditions in which I entered this relationship. Some of my conditions centered on integrity, loyalty and courage. I have the right to expect him to continue to demonstrate all the character strengths that made me choose to submit to him in the first place. If he changes so much that they are no longer of value to him, then I have the right to end the relationship.

I have the right to have my basic physical needs met, food, clothing and shelter. I have the right to have many emotional and mental needs met as well. He just has the authority to decide when and how they will be met.

My Lord has much control over me and my life. He has authority to control whatever he wishes whenever he want to. But giving him the authority to control these things does not remove some very basic rights and responsibilities that I have.


Knight's kyra



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 6:26:31 AM)

I'm SOOO tickled to see people using the "authority" word!!!

And yeah I agree with Kyra.

Also, ownership tends to be more based on the slave being property to be used, while M/s is definitely a person/person relationship. The O/p and M/s dynamic can co-exist quite easily though.



LostChance -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 6:40:06 AM)

Already in my puberty I have been obsessed by the desire being enslaved by a Lady. The Lady was existing in reality, and I worshipped her. I loved the idea being completely controlled by her, even my sexual pleasure. The first stage should be serving her as her personal slave, and in total chastity. In the last stage she would demand that my ability for any sexual pleasure would be disabled, by a surgeon preferably a female surgeon, but that’s at least of course her decision. Afterwards I would have to serve her as her personal eunuch. My only pleasure shall be the smell of her perfume, when she passes by.

I tried to explain my desire to this Lady, but she asked me to get a consultation with my doctor. I never found a Lady who understood my desire. They all wanted a strong male who could protect them, but no Lady had the desire to own a personal slave. Believe me, if the classical period of Sultans and their harems would still exist, I would love to serve there as an eunuch. All the Ladies of the harem would know, that I’m sexually completely disabled. They severed not only the testis; to avoid any unpleasant surprise they chopped off the penis too. Because of the lack of medical knowledge 50% of the eunuch candidates died. Today such a surgery is still complicated, but no more risky; not more risky as to get out the appendix.

richard



Wildfleurs -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 7:14:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: misskittyslave

Ownership to me does not mean that the dominant MUST control all aspects of a submissive or slaves life just that They have the right to if They so desire to do so. As each relationship and situation is unique each Dominants responsability is to decide in what areas They wish to exercise Their control and it is up to the submissive to decide Whom they are going to trust and which personality meets their needs and fits them best for once they agree to submit and become that Persons property they have agreed to forfeit all rights unless given to them by that Dominant.

Any opinions?
be safe and smile for a day without a smile is a wasted day and life is too short to waste a moment of it.


To me ownership means that both people are in a dynamic where one person has transferred control of whatever the other person wants and is the persons property (like a car, house, cat, dog, etc). And so to me being another persons property means that you have the inherent rights of property, which is only the rights and such that are given by the owner.

It doesn’t mean that they control every thing because unless they have a lot of free time the owner won’t have the time to control everything. But the owner does have the freedom to control whatever they want (like going to a buffet and being able to pick from everything instead of only being able to eat the vegetables).

My two cents,
C~



AlderTheKitty -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 7:48:33 AM)

i agree with kyra on this in that a dominant can not remove a submissives Human rights



LadiesBladewing -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 8:11:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: misskittyslave

Ownership to me does not mean that the dominant MUST control all aspects of a submissive or slaves life just that They have the right to if They so desire to do so. As each relationship and situation is unique each Dominants responsability is to decide in what areas They wish to exercise Their control and it is up to the submissive to decide Whom they are going to trust and which personality meets their needs and fits them best for once they agree to submit and become that Persons property they have agreed to forfeit all rights unless given to them by that Dominant.

Any opinions?
.


This agrees with my ideas about Ownership, with the additional note that just because I, as the Owner, do not choose to take over management of something today, that doesn't mean that, down the road, I might not change my mind.

In the end, it comes down to fulfilling my responsibilities. I am in the camp that says "if a servant can manage something, and his or her management means that I do not have to worry about that thing, I am perfectly willing to let him or her manage it (with certain exceptions for things that are taken or restricted to my control for training purpose)". Part of this process is to take burdens -off- my shoulders, or what good is it to have a servant? If having a servant is going to increase my workload for the long haul (again, with the understanding that -any- servant in training will increase the workload for the duration of training), why would I want to do that? Just to say that I "own a servant"? Nope.. not worth it to me.

Therefore, I will control what I want to control, and will depend on the obedience of my servant to manage the things that I have left in his or her management. I will expect that if he or she does not know how to proceed, that I will be asked, and if I decide that he or she is not properly trained to be able to manage something to my expectations, I will likely take control of that thing and either manage it myself or (more likely) will train that servant as to my expectations and then give the thing back to them to manage.

Everything is mine to control -- and part of that control is delegation, with the expectation that the things that I delegate to my servant(s) will be done with the same measure of care and diligence that I would do them with.

Lady Zephyr



nephandi -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 8:16:45 AM)

i agree whit the OP and think she made a werry nice and well written post on the topic.



Nendarye -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 8:36:17 AM)

Master owns me, but it is only by my choice. If at anytime it becomes a fact that he has violated that ownership; ie, broken the trust irrepreparably, intentionally hurt me with the sole purpose of permanant harm, etc....if at anytime it becomes clear that this has happened, I still have the right to remove myself from harms way. As said by several others, I CHOSE to give up my rights to him, but that does not mean that I stopped being responsible for my well being.



KnightofMists -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 9:07:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlderTheKitty

i agree with kyra on this in that a dominant can not remove a submissives Human rights



I CAN"T????!!!!! * puts the eraser down and puts the human rights charter back *** damn no wonder it wasn't working *G*


damn! "kyra you make me proud!!!!!" *VBS*



veronicaofML -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 9:09:01 AM)

i agree,..there are no...MUST...in anything.

but i have a Ms that craves control.
so She controls everything...money,..activities....all of it.

take care



truesub4u -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 10:55:00 AM)

Krya,

On this I have to agree with you. I read the OP and was about to agree, and for some I do agree. But bottom line is, without my approval, Master owns nothing about me. Which sometimes raises the question..... who is really in charge here?

Great response Kyra....



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 11:01:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
On this I have to agree with you. I read the OP and was about to agree, and for some I do agree. But bottom line is, without my approval, Master owns nothing about me. Which sometimes raises the question..... who is really in charge here?

Great response Kyra....

Not for me. As long as the relationship is intact, the Master is in charge (has authority).

You BOTH agree to keep the relationship intact. Either one of you could end it, both of you keep it together.



Wildfleurs -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 11:06:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Krya,

On this I have to agree with you. I read the OP and was about to agree, and for some I do agree. But bottom line is, without my approval, Master owns nothing about me. Which sometimes raises the question..... who is really in charge here?

Great response Kyra....


I don't know if its that way for everyone though. I know that for us it just wouldn't make sense for me to leave without having gotten permission (and I know that I'm not alone in that regard). So not everyone has that right/power/whatever term to leave the relationship when they want to.

C~



Nendarye -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 11:47:08 AM)

quote:

But bottom line is, without my approval, Master owns nothing about me.


I kind of disagree with this. My Master owns me; I gave him that right. Even though we are no longer in a relationship with each other, he still owns me. He still dictates my wants, still sees to my needs. It is not something that I took back, or he gave up just because something keeps us apart. I am still his. Yes, I am responsible for myself in the day to day aspects of living, but everything I do is with his approval in mind.




afmvdp -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 1:20:19 PM)

I think ownership can be either grouping being seen here, the issue isn't what is ownership but to what level of ownership do you allow.

Perhaps I'm just getting into semantics again but ownership is the act of having and controlling something whether that be a physical or intellectual property, but in this case we are refering to another human being.

Thus we have the seperation already created between submissive and slave. To me that is what seperates these two groups here. A Slave has no choice for they are owned, their intellectual and physical property is owned, their mind and body. Where as a submissive makes a conscious choice to submit and allow themself to be controlled. In which case they are not owned, more so leased with the option to buy.



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