RE: what is ownership?

RE: what is ownership? (Full Version)

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nephandi -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 2:32:52 PM)
i agree, a submissive can be werry dedicated, submissive and act in every aspects like a slave, whit one exeption, her or his Master has been given the power over the submissive whit terms atatched, submissive generaly mean somone that submit. To be a slave mean you are property, property no matter how you are treated, my computer can not up and leve if i dont treat it right, and neither can a slave.

Focus50 -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 2:52:17 PM)
Clock's ticking here so I haven't read other replies as a consequence. Yeah, I know, it ticks everywhere! Briefly, ownership is where I get to treat and utilise my property anyway I see fit (as long as it doesn't interfere with the basic rights of others). In the case of my owned slave, it's more complicated. She doesn't get to deny me but the fact she is my slave means she knows I don't abuse my property, either! Another basic difference is that I may lend out a hammer etc but I never lend her. But the biggest difference between her and my other property is that she can choose to leave.... Focus.

phoenixslave -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 5:53:31 PM)
Great responses and as always Focus adds the perfect tone. i think the fact that a slave can leave means they choose to submit every bit as much as submissives. Semantics really. Call me property or call me humperdink, i serve Master in every and any way he chooses. He owns me thoroughly and directs much of my life. But He was attracted to the person as much as the service. As such He treats me with more respect than i have ever received without Him. In his service i have more responsibilities and oppurtunities than i did before. i look at my own lot as somewhat like a knight. Accomplished and able to slay dragons, but i give my sword and my life to my King. It is far more than i ever expected or deserved. Alot of these threads talk about what the slave gives up , or is limited to. They fail to show how rich a life can be in service. That a slave can be beyond happy in that service. Some would imply that a happy slave is one not properly broken, or the product of haphazzard training. There is another way. It is good to see that in this thread. Thank you all.

Sunshine119 -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 7:10:40 PM)
Now I'll open a can of worms..... I'm submissive by nature to a truly Dominant man. I'm owned because I have chosen to give to him myself, and transfer my power to him, for now, but I still retain the ability to walk away at any time. I am responsible for all things for which he has given me the authority to handle. If I ever become a slave (and I'm not sure that is within me), I'll give over all that I am and transfer all power I have to him, over all things he choses.

OscarHargraves -> RE: what is ownership? (12/29/2005 7:56:22 PM)
Makes sense to me.

fldrkhorse -> RE: what is ownership? (12/30/2005 5:23:19 AM)
The OP did not say the sub was in charge. It stated in extreme circumstances of physical, psycological, emotional, or spiritual harm, the sub could and should sever the relationship.

faithNZ -> RE: what is ownership? (12/30/2005 7:41:41 PM)
What I believe it comes down to are the basic human rights. We all know our own minds and if someone wishes for their SO to make decisions for them/micro manage their lives, it is up them and their partner. But they have to find someone that they want to take that responsiblity in the first place.

CelticPrince -> RE: what is ownership? (12/31/2005 1:50:05 PM)
misskitty, Marshall dillon is at the door! now to the serious reply. You interpretation is right on the money, in that the master as a notice of his/her power has the option to decide what is to be controled and what is not. the essance of macropower. CP

veronicaofML -> RE: what is ownership? (12/31/2005 2:17:39 PM)
misskitty, Marshall dillon is at the door! ============================= (tongue in cheek)......... uh yep and i am festus,.... i sho'nuff got to studyin hard on this here problem, dont ya know...and i agree with a whole buncha folks, dont ya see? and that ole scudder doc, why he dont pay no mind no how.

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: what is ownership? (12/31/2005 4:34:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Clock's ticking here so I haven't read other replies as a consequence. Yeah, I know, it ticks everywhere! Briefly, ownership is where I get to treat and utilise my property anyway I see fit (as long as it doesn't interfere with the basic rights of others). In the case of my owned slave, it's more complicated. She doesn't get to deny me but the fact she is my slave means she knows I don't abuse my property, either! Another basic difference is that I may lend out a hammer etc but I never lend her. But the biggest difference between her and my other property is that she can choose to leave.... Focus. There is something I'd like to add to this. Focus is spot on in the fact that a slave can choose to leave a relationship if they so chose. But the difference between the sub and the slave, IMO, is that the slave, if enslaved heart, mind and body, won't leave. At least not with out permission, i.e. being released from their collar. It may not sound like a very smart thing on the slaves part but for the slave, it is an integral part of there slavery. And for as much as another might think "God, what's wrong with you? You are a human being?!?" A slave doesn't see themselves that way. They see themselves as property. Hopefully, one that is of some value to there owner.

Focus50 -> RE: what is ownership? (12/31/2005 6:05:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44 quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Clock's ticking here so I haven't read other replies as a consequence. Yeah, I know, it ticks everywhere! Briefly, ownership is where I get to treat and utilise my property anyway I see fit (as long as it doesn't interfere with the basic rights of others). In the case of my owned slave, it's more complicated. She doesn't get to deny me but the fact she is my slave means she knows I don't abuse my property, either! Another basic difference is that I may lend out a hammer etc but I never lend her. But the biggest difference between her and my other property is that she can choose to leave.... Focus. There is something I'd like to add to this. Focus is spot on in the fact that a slave can choose to leave a relationship if they so chose. But the difference between the sub and the slave, IMO, is that the slave, if enslaved heart, mind and body, won't leave. At least not with out permission, i.e. being released from their collar. It may not sound like a very smart thing on the slaves part but for the slave, it is an integral part of there slavery. And for as much as another might think "God, what's wrong with you? You are a human being?!?" A slave doesn't see themselves that way. They see themselves as property. Hopefully, one that is of some value to there owner. I dunno if it's a difference between a sub and slave as I've known vanillas who get that same powerful emotional link that is difficult to sever. But for some, it is a link that's very real and sometimes exploited within the lifestyle.... Going back quite a few years, I was corresponding with a sub (never went beyond email) who had parted with her master by her choice but still had difficulty moving on because he refused to release her. Of course it sounds absurd or illogical to most (including me), especially as slave "ownership" is not legally enforcable, but it left her stranded in limbo for a long time. And I don't mean that other Doms wouldn't accept her, it was her own need to be released first - and that's highly frustrating to deal with. Whether it indicates issues or whatever, it is what it is and as we say in cricket, you can only play the ball that's bowled at you, not the one you want. I guess she must've got over it because I came across her later as someone else's slave on that other BDSM site.... Focus.

truesub4u -> RE: what is ownership? (12/31/2005 7:05:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44 There is something I'd like to add to this. Focus is spot on in the fact that a slave can choose to leave a relationship if they so chose. But the difference between the sub and the slave, IMO, is that the slave, if enslaved heart, mind and body, won't leave. At least not with out permission, i.e. being released from their collar. It may not sound like a very smart thing on the slaves part but for the slave, it is an integral part of there slavery. And for as much as another might think "God, what's wrong with you? You are a human being?!?" A slave doesn't see themselves that way. They see themselves as property. Hopefully, one that is of some value to there owner. I can agree with this statement... till you get to the very end of it. "Hopefully, one this is of some value to their owner." Unless I'm miss reading this... and i'm sure I am. (I'm known for this) I wasn't bought on an auction block. I met my Master, we talked, we played the "game" and now he owns me. I gave myself to him of my own free will. He did not purchase me. But I know I am still of some value to him as well. Just as he has made me complete, I have made him complete. No If I choose to leave, it will be for a damn god reason. Not because of moeny situations, or housing, medical. Before I even think about asking for release, it will be simply because of my own mental and physical well being. And if my Master sees me as I sure hope he does, and doesn't put those 2 things in danger. Then there's not a single reason I can think of to leave. But then again that's just my personal opinion. Others may have their own of course. But i'm also barking up the wrong tree here. For I am but a sub. I've not earned the title of slave yet. (I'm still learning too much... lol) Now until a collar is placed about my neck... ring on my finger... how ever he sees fit to do this. All though I gave myself to him, I can also take back. Especially if I see that this relationship/ownership is going off on some hair brain different direction than what was discussed between us from the get go. We all talk about communication. And that's all fine and dandy. When limits, and boundries are set forth and agreed upon by both. Being a Master, Mistress or who ever doesn't get the right to change the rules in the middle of things, just because they want to. Or why bother with communicating at all?... Why bother with a "contract"? Hell why bother trusting anyone at all then? If that trust can be broken at any given time just because one feels like it. Now this isn't just for the Master's, the Mistress alone. This too would fall under the sub/slaves also. So please do not take this as an attack on the superiors alone. Hell it's not an attack on no one. After reading all the posts on this. I'm a little confused probably more so now. Because I believe both sides of this. From A Doms point. To a sub/slaves point. But all in all.... it's all up to the ones involved. This much I gather. So no matter what I think, it's what W/we think together is all that counts in the begining.

MHOO314 -> RE: what is ownership? (1/1/2006 7:45:57 AM)
Well said misskittyslave--even the decision not to control by a Dominant is indeed control for the consequences of your actions impact the Dominant, the rules established and the L/life you both lead--so no control is indeed still control-- You make a very valid point that all submissives and slaves need to remember----Just because One is Dominant does not mean they must control every facet of your life--it means there are rules established and you need to make intelligent decisions against those rules. If you cannot, then you ask for guidance.

MHOO314 -> RE: what is ownership? (1/1/2006 8:08:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u quote: ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44 There is something I'd like to add to this. Focus is spot on in the fact that a slave can choose to leave a relationship if they so chose. But the difference between the sub and the slave, IMO, is that the slave, if enslaved heart, mind and body, won't leave. At least not with out permission, i.e. being released from their collar. It may not sound like a very smart thing on the slaves part but for the slave, it is an integral part of there slavery. And for as much as another might think "God, what's wrong with you? You are a human being?!?" A slave doesn't see themselves that way. They see themselves as property. Hopefully, one that is of some value to there owner. I can agree with this statement... till you get to the very end of it. "Hopefully, one this is of some value to their owner." Unless I'm miss reading this... and i'm sure I am. (I'm known for this) I wasn't bought on an auction block. I met my Master, we talked, we played the "game" and now he owns me. I gave myself to him of my own free will. He did not purchase me. But I know I am still of some value to him as well. Just as he has made me complete, I have made him complete. No If I choose to leave, it will be for a damn god reason. Not because of moeny situations, or housing, medical. Before I even think about asking for release, it will be simply because of my own mental and physical well being. And if my Master sees me as I sure hope he does, and doesn't put those 2 things in danger. Then there's not a single reason I can think of to leave. But then again that's just my personal opinion. Others may have their own of course. But i'm also barking up the wrong tree here. For I am but a sub. I've not earned the title of slave yet. (I'm still learning too much... lol) Now until a collar is placed about my neck... ring on my finger... how ever he sees fit to do this. All though I gave myself to him, I can also take back. Especially if I see that this relationship/ownership is going off on some hair brain different direction than what was discussed between us from the get go. We all talk about communication. And that's all fine and dandy. When limits, and boundries are set forth and agreed upon by both. Being a Master, Mistress or who ever doesn't get the right to change the rules in the middle of things, just because they want to. Or why bother with communicating at all?... Why bother with a "contract"? Hell why bother trusting anyone at all then? If that trust can be broken at any given time just because one feels like it. Now this isn't just for the Master's, the Mistress alone. This too would fall under the sub/slaves also. So please do not take this as an attack on the superiors alone. Hell it's not an attack on no one. After reading all the posts on this. I'm a little confused probably more so now. Because I believe both sides of this. From A Doms point. To a sub/slaves point. But all in all.... it's all up to the ones involved. This much I gather. So no matter what I think, it's what W/we think together is all that counts in the begining. I apologize for copying all of this, but could not cut and paste intelligently to keep the posters core content in tact-- Too often submissives and slaves forget they can walk away too---if the relationship starts to show deal breakers or takes om aspects not negotiated, discussed, or comfortable--you can walk away--and at times if causes great angst or sorrow---you bet you walk away---

phoenixslave -> RE: what is ownership? (1/1/2006 9:34:33 AM)
quote: Too often submissives and slaves forget they can walk away too---if the relationship starts to show deal breakers or takes om aspects not negotiated, discussed, or comfortable--you can walk away--and at times if causes great angst or sorrow---you bet you walk away--- Another alternative here is to keep communication open. If something not negotiated or discussed comes up, i would hope to talk about it before just walking away. i would hope that Master would be willing to as well.

theRose4U -> RE: what is ownership? (1/1/2006 6:12:10 PM)
quote: The Lady was existing in reality, and I worshipped her. I loved the idea being completely controlled by her, even my sexual pleasure. The first stage should be serving her as her personal slave, and in total chastity. In the last stage she would demand that my ability for any sexual pleasure would be disabled, by a surgeon preferably a female surgeon, but that’s at least of course her decision. Afterwards I would have to serve her as her personal eunuch. My only pleasure shall be the smell of her perfume, when she passes by. I tried to explain my desire to this Lady, but she asked me to get a consultation with my doctor. I never found a Lady who understood my desire. They all wanted a strong male who could protect them, but no Lady had the desire to own a personal slave. Believe me, if the classical period of Sultans and their harems would still exist, I would love to serve there as an eunuch. All the Ladies of the harem would know, that I’m sexually completely disabled. They severed not only the testis; to avoid any unpleasant surprise they chopped off the penis too. Because of the lack of medical knowledge 50% of the eunuch candidates died. Today such a surgery is still complicated, but no more risky; not more risky as to get out the appendix. I would have to disagree on a couple of points. MOST Dommes are searching through haystacks world-wide to find a good personal service slave. HOWEVER that being said you add the complexity of what appears to be a desire to cut "IT" off without any hints of a desire to sex change. This I think is where you go from a pretty straight forward path to success and veer headlong into the bushes of disaster. Knowing who you are inside, what your needs are and what you desire from a relationship in my mind are more practical routes to a D/s relationship. Airing fantasies for wank material and reinforcing why a Domme should be "into your kink" are not likely to serve you well on your journey. Just my opinion.

HoosierScorpio -> RE: what is ownership? (1/2/2006 9:28:06 AM)
I think owner is a comment to promise to be there for them and to take care of them mind, body, and spirit. To see to their well being is very important and it part of being a Master and owner. So many like to play the word game but what boils down is they have accept to serve under you and your promise to see to their well being. Being the Master does not mean to tear some one down but to shape them into what you need and at the same time you are responsible for their safety and emotional state.

LostChance -> RE: what is ownership? (1/5/2006 1:53:53 AM)
quote: I would have to disagree on a couple of points. MOST Dommes are searching through haystacks world-wide to find a good personal service slave. HOWEVER that being said you add the complexity of what appears to be a desire to cut "IT" off without any hints of a desire to sex change. This I think is where you go from a pretty straight forward path to success and veer headlong into the bushes of disaster. Knowing who you are inside, what your needs are and what you desire from a relationship in my mind are more practical routes to a D/s relationship. Airing fantasies for wank material and reinforcing why a Domme should be "into your kink" are not likely to serve you well on your journey. Just my opinion. There is no greater gift you can offer as a male to your Mistress as to sacrifice the ability for the greatest pleasure a male can have. There is no desire for a sex change involved, not at all, this is total different! Moreover it is the greatest demonstration for the possession of a person, because the owner destroyed permanently the sexual drive of his slave. Sex is the most beautiful experience an adult can have. To give it all in a common consent is more than just a contract on a piece of paper. The contract can be abrogated, but my sacrifice is irreversible! It is a pure demonstration for love and devotion. Authoress Gini Graham Scott is describing such a relationship at the end of her book “Erotic Power” published already 1983 by the Citadel Press NY. After a long time of real cruel chastity a wife was bringing her husband to the scratch either to leave her for ever, or to declare his love by consenting in a penectomy. His love to her was overwhelming, so he agreed to destroy his ability for sexual pleasure. His testicles were kept intact, so that he still had sexual lust, but he couldn’t orgasm anymore. She had great pleasure in watching him in his frustration and agony. She enjoyed having tossed him into the pure hell. He had no other chance, and his wife was well aware about that. He never would endure the pain of a separation. He needs to see her and to be near of her, independent of the cruel behavior of her. Call it mania of love or obsession or whatever. Get the book and read it, and maybe you will understand my desire.

Padriag -> RE: what is ownership? (1/5/2006 3:11:31 AM)
I would agree with the OP's definition. Simply put ownership is what is sounds like... you own something and you can do as you damn well please with what you own... even destroy it if you so choose. Not that I'm recommending that particular course of action, but strictly speaking if you own something or someone you have that right / authority. Not everyone is prepared for ownership or to assume ownership in that very literal sense. quote: ORIGINAL: AlderTheKitty i agree with kyra on this in that a dominant can not remove a submissives Human rights Oh but they can... and I've watched it happen. Do you know what Human Rights are? Its a concept written on a piece of paper that someone thought up relatively recently in history... because for most of history those "rights" didn't exist for anyone except the privileged few, and even for them they were not rights, but rather the rewards of power. Don't take those rights for granted so easily folks... they're rather more fragile than you might like to believe. Not too long ago I watched a gal be enslaved, with full knowledge of what was going to happen to her. In this particular case her enslavement meant she would be kept and treated as a dog for the rest of her life, to the extent that even her name was taken from her. Not only were her "human rights" stripped from her, but her very humanity. And she went along with it, agreed to it and last I heard was still living it... a happy lil doggy. While it is generally true that a submissive (slave or otherwise) can always "exercise the vote of the feet" and leave if things go wrong, that's not always the case. Don't you think for one moment that it isn't possible for a submissive to reach a place mentally and emotionally where she'll remain in a relationship even after things have gone badly. Why do you suppose so many women remain in abusive relationships, even defend their battering spouses? At some point almost anyone can lose that ability to say "no" and at that point those "human rights" exist only as whatever privileges your owner is willing to indulge. But then that's always been the case with "human rights," they exist only so long as those with the power to defend them or take them away choose to extend them. But then perhaps the better question is, "What is responsible ownership?" I own a truck... if I want I can go outside and bash that truck with a sledge hammer until I've utterly ruined it. But why in hell would I want to do that? Why should I want to destroy my property, something I presumably value? Why would any responsible owner do such a thing? Now is that dominant you're considering as your potential owner a responsible owner... or the kind of person that trashes their own home? Does that shed light on why I tell slaves to look closely at how a potential "master" lives his life, how he keeps his home, how he treats his clothes, his car, his property in general? Food for thought.

misskittyslave -> RE: what is ownership? (1/8/2006 2:16:58 PM)
hmm interesting point about the submissive being enslaved and losing her human rights...i question as i do not know her, did she chose and desire to be in that role? if the answer is yes, then she has not lost her human rights as she has the right to the pursuit of happiness. if the answer is no, well then she is possibly being maltreated against her desire....just food for thought on the topic.

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