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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 5:39:23 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

Gorean Philosophy

Be WHAT you are

correct
quote:


Be WHO you are

correct
quote:


Obey the Natural Order of things

Obey is an incorrect word to use here, but mostly correct.
quote:


Advancement of the Strong

The strong advance themselves, and do not forget I said a couple of times there are many forms of strength.
quote:


Diminishment of the Causes of Weakness

Not actively no. If the strong advance, and the species continues then weakness will diminish on their own. This also includes weakness of character.
quote:


Do what you will

Incorrect. This is one that is put forth by many of the Rpers and such that I have mentioned. In fact adherence to codes and the integrity to keep them, even in the face of adversity is highly prized. Not to mention the oath to "Home Stone" which is basically a pledge to the place you live.
quote:


Responsibility for One's Actions

Not just responsibility but accountability.
quote:


Stratification by Natural Process


Correct, but that would also include human behavior.
quote:


Is this the philosophy that you speak of Orion? Don't you think your take on it belongs in its own subject heading or do you figure that any thread typical for women you should spread your Gorean wings into.

This is a small portion of that philosophy. Look back at this thread, and see that a couple of people stated inaccuracies about what Gorean Philosophy is. I only replied to correct that misinformation. If you continue to spread the misinformation, I will continue to rebut it. Not so much for your edification, but for those that may read this thread. Check and see if I have ever posted in the ask a Mistress section. You see I do not feel the need to. I only got heavily involved in this topic when false information was given about Gorean philosophy. I would expect you to do the same for those things you know about and believe in.
quote:


There are a lot of similarities between the gorean philosophy and my own.
My perspective is that it is very suitable to how a mistress should perhaps treat their sub/slave.
Would you prefer that such a philosophy be adhered to when the subordinate is male.


Part of the philosophy is be honest to what your nature is. If a male is weak enough to allow someone to dominate him, be it male or female, then it should be done. You will not see me say anything against, unless my opinion is asked for.

quote:


'World of Woman' their place is to dominate men.



Any philosophy that states by gender, one should dominate or rule over another is flawed. It requires strength and the tools of leadership. Just because a man has a cock, does not make him in charge. Now if it were the middle of the jungle, I would say not to piss off the biggest and meanest animal there, but there are other ways to win than brute strength.

Now if you will refrain from stating your inaccuracies, then you will not see me post anything else. If you continue with it, I will do as my principles dictate, which is to correct the inaccuracies when I see them.

Edited to add: I would identify more with Janus than Cernunnous, if I had to choose a metaphysical archetype to identify with.

< Message edited by OrionTheWolf -- 12/17/2008 5:40:57 PM >


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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 5:51:07 PM   
Aszhrae


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The first post was suggesting an alternative to my own beliefs. Would you not defend your beliefs if for example you had a set of beliefs, someone came along and told you that your beliefs were wrong, that their alternative might be better.
What would you do?
Girl believes in a matriarchal society.
Gorean philosophy is the premise that men have a right to dominate women.
If a woman chooses to be dominated by a man that is their choice.
Girl was defending her beliefs.
The title of this thread is: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto
Then you have someone come in saying that girl should look into Gorean philosophy as an alternative.
Clearly this thread was not about Alternative Philosophies, if it was then girl would not have been offended.
Instead the debate continued.
Now the Gorean male has decided that he does not want to post any more because girl has disrespected and was discourteous towards the Gorean male.
It is my belief that it was not the case, the fact is, that girl would not back down, would not submit to the will of the man.
Its not going to happen. When girl has not submitted to the will of a man there are posts already done as to what happened as a result of me sticking to my guns.
To say that girl is a bigot, no girl is not.
To say that girl is misandry, no girl is not.
Girl does not hate men. My tolerance of men only goes so far.
He was not questioning my beliefs, he was suggesting an alternative to my beliefs.
Now girl posted a summary of the main points of the Gorean philosophy. After reading through them, found similarities to my own philosophy.
My belief is to serve a mistress is to honor the goddess.
Then to suggest that girl is a hypocrite for giving honoring the horned god but not the Gorean male. Is he equal, no, not going to happen.
Girl was defending my beliefs and the beliefs of other women, This girl believes. If no wants to accept this, that's fine, but girl will not back down from any male or allow a man to claim dominion over me.
Only my mistress has that right.

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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 5:56:55 PM   
camille65


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_____________________________


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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 6:05:00 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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You continue to state inaccuracies. It seems more important to you to not appear as if you are wrong, to a male, rather than honestly look at your own statements and what they convey. If you are a slave, then please convey my respects to your owner, and have her read over what has been said here. If she sees no problem with it, then you have done as a good slave should.

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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 6:36:43 PM   
SingleRarity


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Girl:  I do not believe in Buddha's teachings, for Buddha is irradiated fruit loops that have come alive in human form to destroy the world.
Buddhist: Actually we believe Buddha came here to share enlightenment and compassion with humanity and Buddha wasn't made of fruit loops.
Girl: No. I know that he is fruit loops.  I will not bow to fruit loops nor will I serve it's dastardly purpose. Fruit loops Buddha is destroying the world.
Buddhist:  I never said you needed to bow to Buddha or believe in Buddha or serve Buddha . I'm just saying, he's not made of irradiated fruit loops.

That's kind of how the conversation sounds to me.....This thread is fun.
Daddy's Ballerina, e

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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 6:42:42 PM   
MISTRESSKUMA


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"Part of the philosophy is be honest to what your nature is. If a male is weak enough to allow someone to dominate him, be it male or female, then it should be done. You will not see me say anything against, unless my opinion is asked for."


If a Woman is weak enough to allow someone to dominate her, be it male or Female, then it should be done.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 6:48:37 PM   
camille65


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Weak?
Huh.


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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 7:06:27 PM   
Aszhrae


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Girl submits her self to the directions and guidance of her mistress. Girl labors for master because mistress deems it necessary. Girl is happy to do her chores for mistress, laboring for master, serves mistress. From girls labors my allowance is given. Master may not like girl very much but girl has learned many skills by master's instruction. Girl does as she is told because mistress instructs me so. Do as is required of you. Speak when an answer is required. Avoid master's gaze if it is possible.
The point that is being made here. Girl does because mistress tells me so because it benefits mistress. Mistress owns the business. Master only manages. If mistress wanted to, she could replace master with girl. This pleases girl immensely. Translates to master being actually subordinate to mistress. The household and business are governed by mistress.

Mistress says, 'That's my pet'.

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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 7:20:14 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Well I ain't lending my phallic hood to anything or anyone when I say...Aszhrae, that was an almost unintelligible rant.  Orion only disagreed with your opinion and then offered to provide clarification and answer questions - if you had them.  No more...no less...take a breath.  Dunno what is going on with you, but maybe you should go talk to someone professional about it...some serious Gorean/male hate going on there...wow...


I have to agree. All of her posts in this thread have been unintelligible rantings.

But, each to their own.



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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 7:31:42 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Check and see if I have ever posted in the ask a Mistress section. You see I do not feel the need to.

You posted there in November.  Beyond that, I don't know.

I don't read the Gorean board, so I'm not familiar with what you write.  I have read a bit of Lange/Norman's writing, and your presentation of a position looks a lot more scientific than he considered his own to be.  This doesn't sound like something straight from the books, but rather a distillate that emerged from online and real-life conversations you've had with like-minded individuals.  Of course, there's also quite a bit of distance between the "informed consent" of Episcopaleanism and the original text of Deuteronomy... but your position doesn't seem any closer than that to what Lange wrote, which was a fucking mess.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 7:46:16 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Absolutely. Weak was probably a poor choice of words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MISTRESSKUMA

"Part of the philosophy is be honest to what your nature is. If a male is weak enough to allow someone to dominate him, be it male or female, then it should be done. You will not see me say anything against, unless my opinion is asked for."


If a Woman is weak enough to allow someone to dominate her, be it male or Female, then it should be done.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 7:46:34 PM   
Aszhrae


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Ouch Irish,
But then again you are entitled to your opinion.
Girl defended her beliefs.
Seems inevitable that there will always be those with sole purpose to judge others.
Orion was suggesting an alternative to my own philosophy about being dominated by another woman.
During the time of my replies in the defense of my beliefs did any of you even offer assistance in making my defense stronger? Of course not. Others did probably read but only in suggesting that girl consider Orion's alternative when they did post a reply. Did anyone even take my side? No.
Now the dust has settled. Only judgment is posted in reply.
Why even defend the matriarchal belief or even defend the right of personal philosophy? When it is quite obvious no one really gives a damn. Except only to judge and criticize.
Only a few have come forward to agree. Thank you to those that have, at least my efforts were not wasted.

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 7:52:30 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Check and see if I have ever posted in the ask a Mistress section. You see I do not feel the need to.

You posted there in November.  Beyond that, I don't know.


And the content of that post was? I must have been trying to shove Gorean Philosophy down someone's throat.

quote:


I don't read the Gorean board, so I'm not familiar with what you write.  I have read a bit of Lange/Norman's writing, and your presentation of a position looks a lot more scientific than he considered his own to be.  This doesn't sound like something straight from the books, but rather a distillate that emerged from online and real-life conversations you've had with like-minded individuals.  Of course, there's also quite a bit of distance between the "informed consent" of Episcopaleanism and the original text of Deuteronomy... but your position doesn't seem any closer than that to what Lange wrote, which was a fucking mess.



Actually it is from the study of the ideals presented, such as the principle represented by Home Stone, Caste, and Natural Order. Much of this philosphy is not unique and comes from places such as Plato and Nietzsche to name a few. The books were fictional writings that are represented by philosophy in many instances. Not so much distilled as extracted to be applicable to living offline.

Lange actually calls it the Gorean Experiment, which happened without his intention.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 7:54:13 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Absolutely false. Review this topic and show specifically where I was showing it as an alternative. I corrected inaccurate statements that you made about Gorean Philosophy, that was all.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

Orion was suggesting an alternative to my own philosophy about being dominated by another woman.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 7:56:19 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I believe any man so weak as to be controlled by his cock, deserves it.



Amen, Brother Wolf!

And that is all I am going to contribute to a Female Supremacy thread.

_____________________________

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The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 8:01:55 PM   
SingleRarity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae
Did anyone even take my side? No.


Of course no one took your side...THERE WERE NO SIDES.  Orion simply corrected you inaccurate statements about Gor.  Somehow you took this as him trying to turn you and even further "woo you".  Do you honestly not understand that?

Daddy's Ballerina, e


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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 8:14:07 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

To carry on with your religious analogy, if we were to change the subject of this thread to Christianity: A Manifesto, I would feel the same way, and despite my secular ideals, will defend someone's right to believe what they want and express it. After all, unless it is harming me, how is it harming me? I realize I may be the minority in this sentiment, but I think we need to chill and consider more than a few glass houses in all our lives.



Well, I have no problem telling the Flat Earth Society they are wrong, but I fully support their right to go about being wrong until the day comes when they accidentally fall off the Earth.

I feel the same about Fundamentalist Christians and Female Supremacists (Male Supremacists as well).

Being somewhat notoriously non-politically correct, I think it's okay to tell people they are wrong just as long as your okay with letting them go about continuing to be wrong after the fact.

(Okay, I lied about only contributing one thing to the thread)



_____________________________

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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 8:36:43 PM   
Aszhrae


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Absolutely false. Review this topic and show specifically where I was showing it as an alternative. I corrected inaccurate statements that you made about Gorean Philosophy, that was all.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

Orion was suggesting an alternative to my own philosophy about being dominated by another woman.




Withdraw bigotry, misandry and hypocrisy (as they are completely untrue about me) and girl might consider approaching you with intended clarity of the open mind. Girl will apologize for the 'pomparorion' that was placed in one post since it was uncalled for.
Your posts were perceived as offering an alternative to my own philosophy. My personal philosophy and beliefs are what keeps me going. It is why girl continues to survive.
Remove those words with an apology just as girl has done and girl will speak privately. You have my messenger to contact me if you are of sincere intent.
Girl is offering an olive branch.

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RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 8:57:57 PM   
squirrelfury


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Y'know, I had absolutely no thought, upon originally posting, that this thread would become what it has over the course of so many replies. 

While some of those replies have been rambling digressions (mine), and some acerbic attacks (various), all have been both enjoyable and enlightening in a multitude of ways.

I'd like to pause the discourse briefly, just to offer thanks in general to all who've coloured in the lines I laid down (or outside of them, but applied their colour nonetheless, for which I'm grateful), and to offer specific thanks to a few posters for ideas I hadn't considered.  If I didn't name you specifically, don't consider it to be an implied slight or insult to the point of view you expressed, but a failing on my part to explicitly recognize the point you were making, or to have considered your point to be so naturally in line with my own views that to thank you explicitly would damage my own vanity, as it'd be admitting that I didn't consider something I should have thought of as obvious.

Aravain, my thanks for the noting what I didn't when I wrote the OP, namely that the given definition was highly skewed so as to be almost farcical.

LadyLou, thank you for first observing that the topic would have as well applied to male supremacy, and by pointing this out showing me that to just mention the former leaves me looking intellectually dishonest at the least.

Allthatjaz, while I confess I got a bit lost somewhere in the midst of your first reply, thank you for bringing the idea of strippers in.  No thread is complete without them. *grins*  Likewise thanks all who continued on the line of stripper-theory.

YourMissTress, thank you for pointing out that my OP was lacking in clarity when differentiating between the stated topic as a kink versus an actual encompassing enforceable worldview.

Colouredin and starshine, I enjoyed your points raised while speaking to each other and including, among the concept of male or female superiority, racial and religious superiority.

OrionTheWolf, I appreciate and thank you for your contributions in the clarification of an idealized practice of Gor offline, and the concept of it as a meritocracy.  I do have to ask, where'd you get the 5% figure you'd mentioned about midway through the thread?  Was that specifically mentioned in one of the books, or have you run the numbers and that's what came up, so to speak?

MarcEsadrian, thank you for your reasoned (and reasonable) view of the OP.  As noted earlier in this post, I'd have indeed done better to broaden beyond one gender, or gender in general, as related to inherent supremacy.  I will say, however, that I'm not pushing any person or group's agenda, as implied by you.  Nor was this written for "the applause of the politically correct crowd."  It was written.  Full stop.  It's an opinion only, not a crusade launched for or against anything, and no intent to mobilize the masses lies behind it.

Aszhrae, while there may be a certain discomfiture for readers of your replies, there can be no doubt as to your passion concerning the views reflected therein.  Thank you for expressing and sharing that passion, and I can only envy you for it, since I tend to lack it myself.

IronBear, thank you for a well-stated view on blanket statements and beliefs, and the expression or enforcement thereof.  I'm certainly guilty of it.  Your original reply stated better and more concisely what I should have considered before writing the OP, though I'm glad that the writing of it caused you to make the reply you did.  So in the end, I can't feel too bad. *winks*

OttersSwim, you made me giggle with the "scrubbing the Y chromosome" bit. Thanks for that. *grins*  Likewise, subsequent replies to it.

ResidentSadist, thank you for the Heinlein quotes, and the underlying message you were (I think) trying to get across to me by typing them. *grins*

Camille65....that smiley makes me happy.  And fits beautifully in the context you used it.  Well played! *grins*

SingleRarity, that is both a hilarious and beautifully accurate restructuring of the argument it references.  Thank you!

Usako, that smiley also makes me snicker.  Well done.

MadRabbit, I'm stealing "I think it's okay to tell people they are wrong just as long as you're okay with letting them go about continuing to be wrong after the fact."  That's brilliant, and thank you.

(edited to remove some needless snark on my part)

< Message edited by squirrelfury -- 12/17/2008 9:02:48 PM >


_____________________________

~Squirrel~
I wept for I had no shoes, then I met the bastard who took them. Who's crying *now*, fetish-boy?

From a word to a word I was led to a word, from a deed to another deed.

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Female Supremacy: A Manifesto - 12/17/2008 9:02:02 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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It is actually stated, I believe in Magicians of Gor, but not positive, that 1 in 20 females are slaves. I would have to do some research to tell you which one, but it is there.

My apologies for derailing your topic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: squirrelfury

OrionTheWolf, I appreciate and thank you for your contributions in the clarification of an idealized practice of Gor offline, and the concept of it as a meritocracy.  I do have to ask, where'd you get the 5% figure you'd mentioned about midway through the thread?  Was that specifically mentioned in one of the books, or have you run the numbers and that's what came up, so to speak?



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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