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RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 6:45:47 AM   
BossyShoeBitch


Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sultryone

I was just wondering... is it the wrong approach to be looking for a Dom who, alongside everything else, can help me control, learn, and change my emotional issues with the intent of helping me to become a better woman/sub?

I am not the perfect woman.  I know what I would like to change about myself, but I feel some of what led me to BDSM is the possibility of a strong, understanding man who would be able to see things in me, possibly even better than I see them, and help me along in learning to be a better woman and better at relationships. 

It's not just all about the sex here, from what I've read and what I understand, but should I be looking at this from a different perspective?

sultry





I found that guy quite by accident.  Here is the short version of why I first approached SimplyMichael 2 years ago:
I came for the hotness;
I stayed for the love, insightfulness and understanding
 
I cannot begin to explain how much Michael has helped me (and continues to help me) understand myself better.  The Man knows me better than I know myself.  He truly does.   The best way I can describe this that by Michael modeling "correct relationship behavior" and constantly reinforcing that behavior, I slowly began to see where my past mistakes were.  We are constantly talking about these types of things, not as "lessons" per se, more like points of interest.  I am not afraid to admit my weaknesses and shortcomings to Him because HE makes it SAFE for me to do so, no matter what those shortcomings and weaknesses may be.
I tell Him constantly that my Mother sent Him to me to take care of me.  She passed in 1991 and I have never met anyone as insightful as her.  Until Michael.

My tag line, "Only because it's you" is a perfect example of how Michael has helped me to grow, relationship wise.
When I get involved with a man, we tend to stay in contact even after the relationship is over.  Sometimes because there is a genuine friendship-affection there, sometimes out of life circumstances. Throughout my lifetime, I have had several relationships where I was cheated on and lied to (I was no angel either, but that's for another post).  Even when the relationships were over, even when I broke up with them, I was still very territorial and made their lives hell when they would try and move on with another woman, so I always thought of myself, by nature, as a jealous bitch. 
Through Michael, I realized that it wasn't the fact that they were with other women at all.  My core issue was being lied to about it.  When I feel like someone is hiding something from me, lying to me,  it triggers something.. I don't know what.. and I get NUTS.  However, when they are honest and forthright with me, even if I get a bit sad, I can handle it much better.

Michael and I broke up in July of this year (3400 miles is a hard thing on a relationship) and while we talk daily and still love each other very much,  He started seeing someone local to Him a few months ago.  He cares about her ALOT.  Truthfully, they have a lot more in common than He and I do and in many ways, she is better for Him than I am.  Believe me, my antennae were UP UP UP for any sign of Him being dishonest with me, whatever the motivation behind it.  Well, simply put, the man is amazing.  He has been honest and forthright with both of us at every step.  He has taken careful steps to avoid/squelch any misunderstanding that may occur at any time.  I feel none of that bad jealousy whatsoever.  While it hurts my heart a bit knowing that I can't talk to Him whenever I want to anyore (save for an emergency), I am actually truly, genuinely grateful to know that this amazing guy has someone nearby to take care of Him, body and soul. 
Through His own actions, Michael taught me that with honor, honesty and consistency, you can have your cake and eat it too.


edited: SultryOne-  What I am trying to say is, "Don't settle!"  He is out there.  Hmmm.. Just noticed that Michael is not too far from you.. He may have some free time.




< Message edited by BossyShoeBitch -- 12/16/2008 6:49:47 AM >

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to sultryone)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 7:07:42 AM   
sultryone


Posts: 46
Joined: 10/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain26

However, I don't think searching for someone specifically to help you work out your issues is exactly the wisest choice to make. That is the kind of connection that is only built over time and with a lot of hard work on both accounts. Finding someone you connect with, who makes you feel your submission deeply, and who is obviously happy and content at having you at their feet would be far preferable to searching for a dominant who will simply control you until you've fixed your problems. And it will be much more fulfilling for you both as well *beams*


Yes, I agree completely.  I am not looking for someone to "fix" me, but to go through it with me and be there for me, as I would be there for him and grow together in a relationship.  Currently in the situation I am in, I was told not to contact him after some difficulties came up.  He said he would contact me when he is ready because he's too upset to talk rationally and compassionately.  He said because I am looking for someone to control me, that I am not ready for a healthy relationship and the fears I have about being hurt and Poly (which neither of us have any experience in) are things to which I need to deal with myself and he can't help.



(in reply to porcelain26)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 7:15:28 AM   
sultryone


Posts: 46
Joined: 10/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch


edited: SultryOne-  What I am trying to say is, "Don't settle!"  He is out there.  Hmmm.. Just noticed that Michael is not too far from you.. He may have some free time.



Haha well thank you, someone like Michael sounds like someone for me. :)

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 7:30:57 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		Just a thought, but often we get into bad relationships because of our problems, the people we choose are not the people who will help us but rather what we are used to and what allows us to continue on our path of destructive behaviour, you need to deal with where the behaviour comes from first, this is something I truely believe.


_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to scottjk)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 7:39:54 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

that with honor, honesty and consistency, you can have your cake and eat it too.



Those behaviors are the foundation of a good relationship and with them, you can have desert, as for me, my plate is full and I am very very content at the moment!

Sultry,

From your last post,

quote:

  He said because I am looking for someone to control me, that I am not ready for a healthy relationship and the fears I have about being hurt and Poly (which neither of us have any experience in) are things to which I need to deal with myself and he can't help.


If your issues around hurt, those are things that while you have to ultimately be the one to deal with, having a partner who proves trustworthy can go a long way in helping someone deal with trust issues.  BSB has in fact helped ME deal with my own trust issues because she is the most drama free woman I have ever known.  As for being/doing poly, if he is saying you need to deal with your jealousy issues alone, then he could be right OR and my money is on this, he is trying to guilt/force you into just accepting whatever it is he wants and that is some fucked up shit.

Again, your mileage may vary and only you can decide what works for you.

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 8:05:14 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

is it the wrong approach to be looking for a Dom who, alongside everything else, can help me control, learn, and change my emotional issues with the intent of helping me to become a better woman/sub?
Wrong? No. The problem is you're asking them to commit to process where the result requires them to like and want the person coming out of the other end of change. Are you confident you can accurately represent the person you want to change into before the process begins?

"Change" - The word always assumes change for the better. Rarely, if ever, does it work out that way. Going into a relationship expecting to change is a set up for failure. How do you know the person you change into will be compatible with the person who was attracted to you by the way you are?

The easy example is a dramatic weight change. "Help me loose weight" is a common theme. Signing on for that task, the dominant works the sub, monitors intake. Success brings on a different look. How common is it that that 'look' creates  new perspective and a thought that "I can do better"? Of course the cause of the failure isn't the change, it's some other 'problem' that came up and was originally a tolerated annoyance. Now, the 'new & improved' slimmer you doesn't have to tolerate anything. Emotions are more volatile when subjected to change.

People don't want to change. People don't change. They dress up, put on a facade that can last a lifetime, but change rarely if ever happens.

Instead of seeking someone to change you, you'd be better served finding someone to accept you.

Of course this speaks to long term. Short term anyone can change, everyone can 'act'. It's why time is the most important factor when committing to a partner. Long term acting is difficult work. Observing reactions to various unscripted situations exposes naked truth. The decision isn't to change the truth, it's determining if adapting to reality is meritorious.

I want to know people, and have them know me with my emotions, and personality exposed and as naked as possible. I'm so adamant about not changing a person that I haven't made beth quit smoking, which I hate on many levels. Smoking is an essential aspect of who she is. her submission to that vice and her physical, as well as mental, addiction to tobacco are part of the person I met. Changing that aspect has the same effect as changing one digit of a mile long equation; it doesn't generate the same result.

quote:

I know what I would like to change about myself,
Why? Someone has said, "don't settle";  great advice. Don't settle should also consider settling for someone who claims to like you and then wants to change you. It seems that it shouldn't be necessary to point out but if a partner is attracted to you, wouldn't the other end of  'change' impact that which attracted them in the first place?

At best, people evolve (a nice way to say they get older), become more sophisticated in their 'taste'. New experiences point to a different direction for experimentation. However, fundamentally and considering long term, they don't change. Now I happen to see that as a positive. I can appreciate that self loathing does exist. If there is any change worthy it is the change that comes in learning all you can about yourself and getting beyond the self loathing to a point of self acceptance, confidence, and pride.

If a Dom can serve any function in the process its to provide some of that confidence by holding up a mirror and, instead of pointing out the flaws as problems, pointing them out as part of the overall reflection of what attracted them to you in the first place. There is no molding of a person from a lump of clay. There can be a sculpting in the spirit of Michelangelo who said, when creating his masterpiece 'David', that the sculpture was always in the stone, a prisoner there. All he did was take away the stone that wasn't 'David'.

He didn't change it - he freed it. If you are looking for advice, mine would be, don't look for someone to change you - look for someone to free you to be yourself and likes the person you are.

Good luck!

(in reply to sultryone)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 8:05:38 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
As for being/doing poly, if he is saying you need to deal with your jealousy issues alone, then he could be right OR and my money is on this, he is trying to guilt/force you into just accepting whatever it is he wants and that is some fucked up shit.


Yup, that's where my money would be too.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 10:18:16 AM   
littleone35


Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline 		Theer  are some things i want to change about myself.  It is because i am not happy with them.  Master does not care he loves me just the way i am.  He wants me to be happy and if  i want to change somethings about myself  (physically not mentally) he will support me.   I am not asking him to change them i am changing them myself but it does help to have his support.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 10:21:12 AM   
sultryone


Posts: 46
Joined: 10/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

is it the wrong approach to be looking for a Dom who, alongside everything else, can help me control, learn, and change my emotional issues with the intent of helping me to become a better woman/sub?
Wrong? No. The problem is you're asking them to commit to process where the result requires them to like and want the person coming out of the other end of change. Are you confident you can accurately represent the person you want to change into before the process begins?

"Change" - The word always assumes change for the better. Rarely, if ever, does it work out that way. Going into a relationship expecting to change is a set up for failure. How do you know the person you change into will be compatible with the person who was attracted to you by the way you are?

The easy example is a dramatic weight change. "Help me loose weight" is a common theme. Signing on for that task, the dominant works the sub, monitors intake. Success brings on a different look. How common is it that that 'look' creates  new perspective and a thought that "I can do better"? Of course the cause of the failure isn't the change, it's some other 'problem' that came up and was originally a tolerated annoyance. Now, the 'new & improved' slimmer you doesn't have to tolerate anything. Emotions are more volatile when subjected to change.

People don't want to change. People don't change. They dress up, put on a facade that can last a lifetime, but change rarely if ever happens.

Instead of seeking someone to change you, you'd be better served finding someone to accept you.

Of course this speaks to long term. Short term anyone can change, everyone can 'act'. It's why time is the most important factor when committing to a partner. Long term acting is difficult work. Observing reactions to various unscripted situations exposes naked truth. The decision isn't to change the truth, it's determining if adapting to reality is meritorious.

I want to know people, and have them know me with my emotions, and personality exposed and as naked as possible. I'm so adamant about not changing a person that I haven't made beth quit smoking, which I hate on many levels. Smoking is an essential aspect of who she is. her submission to that vice and her physical, as well as mental, addiction to tobacco are part of the person I met. Changing that aspect has the same effect as changing one digit of a mile long equation; it doesn't generate the same result.

quote:

I know what I would like to change about myself,
Why? Someone has said, "don't settle";  great advice. Don't settle should also consider settling for someone who claims to like you and then wants to change you. It seems that it shouldn't be necessary to point out but if a partner is attracted to you, wouldn't the other end of  'change' impact that which attracted them in the first place?

At best, people evolve (a nice way to say they get older), become more sophisticated in their 'taste'. New experiences point to a different direction for experimentation. However, fundamentally and considering long term, they don't change. Now I happen to see that as a positive. I can appreciate that self loathing does exist. If there is any change worthy it is the change that comes in learning all you can about yourself and getting beyond the self loathing to a point of self acceptance, confidence, and pride.

If a Dom can serve any function in the process its to provide some of that confidence by holding up a mirror and, instead of pointing out the flaws as problems, pointing them out as part of the overall reflection of what attracted them to you in the first place. There is no molding of a person from a lump of clay. There can be a sculpting in the spirit of Michelangelo who said, when creating his masterpiece 'David', that the sculpture was always in the stone, a prisoner there. All he did was take away the stone that wasn't 'David'.

He didn't change it - he freed it. If you are looking for advice, mine would be, don't look for someone to change you - look for someone to free you to be yourself and likes the person you are.

Good luck!


That is such a great post. Thank you. 

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 10:25:08 AM   
MissEnchanted


Posts: 510
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sultryone

Let me rephrase my question or rather add to it...

What if something came up in your relationship you had some fears about, and your Dom says to you, "it's your problem, I can't help you with that".

That is something that has recently happened in my new experience as a sub.



From  a Domme's perspective:
If He said that, then it is up to you to get after that issue on your own, with research, therapy, action, reading, etc...

You might talk it over one more time before you take your own actions, to be sure you understood him and to be clear he did understand what issue you are talking about.

ME


(in reply to sultryone)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 4:13:31 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		"What if something came up in your relationship you had some fears about, and your Dom says to you, "it's your problem, I can't help you with that". "


Then accept that he's being honest with you and he can't help you and work out the problem on your own. He's not your therapist or dr. He's your partner.

No one can fix you except you. He can only be there for you for moral support. That's it. Expect nothing else.


(in reply to MissEnchanted)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 5:56:48 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If I was told that I had to be poly, that he didn't care about my emotions, and that he had no experience or learning about how to have a healthy poly relationship my response would be that I would take care of my own issues. And the first step would be to block him and look for someone who was capable of having healthy relationships. Which this guy isn't.

If he waited until after you committed to spring poly on you, then he's a liar and a cheat. And I don't find clueless cheats to be people I can trust. There are really wonderful men out there, who want to know what's going on in their sub's minds and hearts. Next time, find one of them.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 7:30:46 PM   
sultryone


Posts: 46
Joined: 10/9/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you everyone for your insight.  Excellent as usual in varied degrees of opinions. I feel much more informed.  Thank you. :)

_____________________________

I sometimes get things wrong to get things right...

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 8:02:43 PM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Sultryone
Sir has helped me with several issues of mine, simply because he wont tolerate certain behavior from me. After repeated a couple times, i learn to not. As far as my own emotional issues, I would not look for him to help me deal with them. He has a full life, and why take on my issues that don't concern us. He was attracted to me, because i can deal with my own issues or find someone who has the expertise. Sir pretty much liked me for being me, and not to change and mold me into something I am not. If there is a particular trait i trying to learn, he though will help me with that.

blessings
oceanwynds

(in reply to sultryone)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 8:33:36 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Or you really could just be too fucked up and not ready for a relationship and he's trying to end it gently so you won't go into a psycho rage on him.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to oceanwynds)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/16/2008 8:50:16 PM   
sultryone


Posts: 46
Joined: 10/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Or you really could just be too fucked up and not ready for a relationship and he's trying to end it gently so you won't go into a psycho rage on him.


Well the psycho rage thing doesn't work for me, heh, but I've gotten some great advice here in this thread and privately so I think I've figured out what is going on and what I need to do to better myself in the situation.  Thanks again.

_____________________________

I sometimes get things wrong to get things right...

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/18/2008 7:11:28 AM   
atendersoul


Posts: 167
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline 		in my many years of involvement in the lifestyle....over the last couple of years, i noted that subs and slaves pick and choose what they want and what they wish...some coming from an abusive relationship now deciding that they are a sub because of it.....some just looking for someone else to make decisions for them.....some just looking for a free ride....
no one can make you a better woman or person unless it is within yourself to work toward this also and be willing to grow. When people put up walls around themselves, they live in a shadow....
know the difference of reality and fantasy.....the world is not a perfect place
the best of luck is your search....

(in reply to scottjk)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/22/2008 11:23:55 AM   
jen182


Posts: 495
Joined: 11/29/2008
Status: offline 		i dont see anything wrong with it

(in reply to scottjk)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/25/2008 3:44:40 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sultryone
I was just wondering... is it the wrong approach to be looking for a Dom who, alongside everything else, can help me control, learn, and change my emotional issues with the intent of helping me to become a better woman/sub?

I am not the perfect woman.  I know what I would like to change about myself, but I feel some of what led me to BDSM is the possibility of a strong, understanding man who would be able to see things in me, possibly even better than I see them, and help me along in learning to be a better woman and better at relationships.

I'm struggling to understand why you would select ANY life partner who did not meet these criteria.  You're not a perfect woman.  I'm not a perfect man.  I assume all the perfect people meet up somewhere else.  For me, I want my partner, including my slave girl, to be able to do exactly as you've said. 

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to sultryone)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: A sub and her issues... - 12/26/2008 2:27:53 PM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		I think there is a very fine line between wanting someone to help you along and wanting someone to drag you along, if that makes any sense.

And for a disclaimer, I'm not in a 24/7, so anything I write may not even be applicable at all to your situation, and that's okay if it's not. Take what you can, if there is anything you can use, and ignore the rest.

Even in vanilla relationships, there is some aspects of the other person "making you want to be a better person", and in the BDSM world, that is often stronger and more magnified, especially from a submissive's point of view. But what the BDSM relationship AND the vanillla relationship have in common is that change can only be brought about by the person needing to change. Part of submission - healthy submission - is understanding that you are giving yourself to this person not because you THINK they can make you a better person, but because you ARE better when you're with them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while a Master's job does include training and guidance, they are not the major points that are going to bring about change inside of you. I think you already know this, so I'm probably just repeating others at this point.

I'm just....I'm reading alot of neediness in your posts in this thread - and that's okay - perfectly fine, god knows, we all get needy sometimes - it's just that neediness can bring about desperation, which, when searching for a Dominant, is not a safe combination.

< Message edited by T1981 -- 12/26/2008 2:30:18 PM >

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 40
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