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References - 12/29/2005 1:56:54 PM   
FTopinMichigan


Posts: 571
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline 		Have you ever asked someone for a "reference," or been asked to give one, to someone you've met in your local community, or that you were considering meeting, and yet were only talking to online? Not that this is a full proof way to verify someone's character or intent, but to get a "hint" if they are perhaps sincere, or at least somewhat sane.

I have had friend/acquaintances use my name to say they know me, or that I was affiliated with a certain group, but usually this was with my permission, or at my own request. I don't go for name dropping, for the sake of dropping names, and in fact, find it mostly a violation of privacy, unless done so, with permission, for such a purpose as discussed here.

I have also overheard my own name thrown around by those that I've never met, and it's interesting to see the look on their face when you tell them...they are talking about you.

What I have issue with, is when you ask someone for a reference, or if they know anyone that's in the local community, that they are too stupid to figure some things out.

Example: One man tried to rejoin a group that I ran, and based on his past behaviors toward me personally, as well as to some in the membership, I had asked him for a reference to verify his affiliation with other groups to show his ability to socialize with others, or to provide a personal reference from someone in the community, that could vouch for him personally. He actually responded to me, with his reference...he gave ME as his reference. (How could I trust him, with using ME as a reference? )

Another one, the other day, while not specifically a "reference," was a man that told me he belonged to a group when he first started to explore his interest. He gave me the group name, and as the group organizer, I can say that he was never a member. He apparently either didn't know, or didn't remember that I ran that group.

I don't understand how someone thinks such a blatant untruth won't bite them in the ass.

Do you think references are a good way to share information, or a waste of time? Or...a little of both?

K
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: References - 12/29/2005 1:59:39 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FTopinMichigan
Have you ever asked someone for a "reference,"

Nope.

quote:

or been asked to give one

Yup.

[quore]
Do you think references are a good way to share information, or a waste of time? Or...a little of both?

K


In order for a reference to be useful, you have to be able to judge the reference. If you're getting information on a person by getting their references...how do you get information about their references? More references?

Now, name connecting and 6-degrees-of-kink-separation is nice and can be a useful tool to establish things. But I think people should just use their own good judgement like we always have in the vanilla world. Too many "references" are either "people who think he's amazing" or "vengeful ex's on a rampage" neither of which are really useful to you.


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: References - 12/29/2005 2:16:45 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FTopinMichigan
have also overheard my own name thrown around by those that I've never met, and it's interesting to see the look on their face when you tell them...they are talking about you.



My favorite incident happened when I dropped by at ManRay, on one of the club's fetish nights. One of my friends came running over, grabbed my arm and dragged me over to a group, saying, "you gotta see this." When we got there, he introduced me to "John Warren, the famous writer." Evidently, this guy had just arrived and had announced his "identity" at the door and was now providing a little light amusement for the locals. I quickly gathered that he thought John Warren was a resident of NYC. What followed was a bit of low comedy as I, and the rest of the crowd, hung on the guy's every word. Unfortunately, it got to be too much as one and then another of the crowd broke down in laughter. Finally, I stopped gasping enough to offer the guy one of my cards. He took one look and literally ran for the door.

The next day, I told Janet, my publisher, that I wanted a picture of Libby and me on the cover of the next reprint.


_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: References - 12/29/2005 2:37:47 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		Only been asked once and I declined. I explained that I didn't understand why she needed the opinion of a second stranger (to her) to decide if the first stranger (myself) was a decent or trustworthy Dom. I further explained that she could ask me anything she wishes, esp as I find the questions asked gives me insight to her thought processes, or that she can get plenty of insight to me from my years of Forum posting here and at other sights.

Got a "thanx but no thanx" email back from her.... <shrugs>

I don't ask for them because I don't rate them. And in all forms of life, I can't say as I've seen a bad reference - nuff said!

Focus.

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: References - 12/29/2005 4:06:57 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I still LMAO over that one guy, K!! Our friend in the Rope group gets her name used and abused quite a bit, too, and she will not give a reference unless she has seen a person play----just seeing someone at a munch doesn't cut it!

I am not a fiend for references, but I think networking is invaluable. Of course, networking is not a bit of good unless you actually KNOW folks in the scene, and have some idea of what the person you are talking to likes and dislikes. Also, I think it helps to be specific about what the reference consists of. There is a local man (well, I think he moved south) who is a good playmate----just don't leave your purse lying around! Seriously.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: References - 12/29/2005 4:32:57 PM   
Aesop35


Posts: 7
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: West Plains, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FTopinMichigan

Do you think references are a good way to share information, or a waste of time? Or...a little of both?

K



A little of both, depending on what the reference is intended for.

As Focus pointed out in a getting-to-know-you situation, asking for the opinion of someone you've never met about yet another person you've never met seems short-sighted. It doesn't even make sense on a job application--who in their right mind lists an enemy or ill-wisher as a reference? I suppose as a quick test of sanity, this would serve in a pinch, otherwise a reference in this case is a hit-or-miss proposition.

On the other hand, I've attended 'extreme' play parties that required a reference from someone known and trusted by the hosts, as well as an understanding that the reference given would be held 'accountable' for any untowards behavior by the attendee. (New attendees were required to be escorted by said reference their first time) In a society where it is all too easy to be accused of abuse and assault, sometimes a reference system makes a modicum of sense.

My two centavos,

Aesop35




(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: References - 12/29/2005 4:34:47 PM   
gbgirlz2003


Posts: 65
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline 		The most pathetic are the ones who claim to know you after chatting with you. Not even the casual sexual contacts I have had "know" me.

I have been asked to give a reference for Master. It always blows them away when I say; "I am Master's 3 hole slut; which orifice do you plan on offering him?" And always; "Can I join in the fun?"

Only one person asked me about him for purposes of anything other than scening. They wanted him to Mentor them.

I don't mind giving references for people I know and have seen play; other than that, I pass.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: References - 12/29/2005 4:52:15 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Do you think references are a good way to share information, or a waste of time? Or...a little of both?


Regardless if there are references there will be rumor's floating around. Some good some bad. Liar's seem to flourish in the communities. They aren't people I personally hang around with but they are everywhere.
They usually end up ostracized in the end.
Never the less I get asked on an almost daily basis for references.

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: References - 12/29/2005 4:56:31 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		i suppose references could be of use to some degree... but like Lucky has stated... do you need to get references of the references too?.... I don't bother with references and likely never will.... I don't give much credit if any of what others say of another... I look to witness another and interact them myself and make my own judgements based on first any knowledge and not somones perceptions that may or may not be accurate or even biased.



< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 12/29/2005 4:57:03 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: References - 12/29/2005 5:02:52 PM   
Nendarye


Posts: 147
Joined: 12/23/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		When I was first introduced to Master, I was told to talk to his wife :) I found it a bit odd, but now, I understand the reasons why. It was not to get information on Master and what kind of person he was, but rather for him to get a better understanding of how I interacted with others in regards to our own relationship.

Now, I am approached by others, at the insistance of Master, for the same reason, to find out how THEY intereact with me in regards to THEIR relationship. I do not sing his praises, nor do I put him down; but I do discuss our own relationship with them, if they ask about it first.

_____________________________

" You may be suffering, but you will always suffer with love"

@~~Proud property of Master Michael~~@

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: References - 12/29/2005 5:04:51 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		For the most part I think references are useless simply because you don't know the person giving them. Online only references aren't worth the paper they're printed on and in-person references are only of value to me if I know the person giving the reference. If a close friend of mine said "So and so is OK, honest, you're in good hands" then I'd likely believe them as long as I didn't have any negative gut level reactions to the person in question. I've sort of provided a reference for someone but it was in a backwards kind of way. I'd played with a friend of mine who does fantastic cane work and I told a friend of mine who loves caning (she orgasms from it, lucky bitch ) that she HAD to play with this guy. I promised her she was in good hands and sure enough, she loved it.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 12/29/2005 5:06:17 PM >

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: References - 12/29/2005 5:16:40 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

Do you think references are a good way to share information, or a waste of time? Or...a little of both?


I think attaining references is an excellent idea. I know that when I meet someone I really like {That doesn't live in the same area/town} and a fair amount of trust has been built up, I give them the phone number to city hall and tell them to call the Mayor or Sheriff and ask for a personal reference if they ever have any questions in their mind.

As I said before though.... I wouldn't do this with just anyone. I have to really like them and a certain level of trust needs to be built up.


- The Ranger


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: References - 12/29/2005 6:37:38 PM   
sweetpettjenny


Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline 		hello Fttop..Great post Ma'am!!!
i believe references to be a good thing and yes ive asked for them and i can give many if asked.

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: References - 12/29/2005 6:54:47 PM   
sultryvoice


Posts: 368
Joined: 3/31/2004
Status: offline 		References can be good..Just depends on who they are from and for what reason. As for people meeting in this lifestyle..again it depends. Not everyone is involved with the community at large. So you can't get a reference. If I am talking to someone, I do ask friends around if they know the name or anything about them. That doesn't mean I turn them down flat..I am just careful. I do try to measure how the person is by how they contact me and react to what I have to say and do. I have to say, I have a tendency to squick a few. There are certain things I look for and if they are aren't there, adios..I will not settle.

Respectfully,
sultry

_____________________________

Blessed are the cracked,
For it is they who let in the light.


www.themarkbycpi.com

(in reply to sweetpettjenny)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: References - 12/29/2005 7:08:11 PM   
HouseofBear


Posts: 1280
Joined: 2/9/2005
Status: offline 		References can be an excellent tool, especially if you actually check them out. We have had people ask us for references on people (who said we knew them well, and had trained them) and all we had done at most was be introduced to them (and sometimes hard pressed to remember who the person was) or watched them play one time. Tells you right quick they don't know how to tell the truth or like to exaggerate. When asked to give references, we give one of two kinds. Either a positive one, or no reference(neutral--ie I do not know this person, or I have not seen them play enough, or not spent enough time with them to be able to tell you, etc.)

Bear and Ursa

(in reply to sultryvoice)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: References - 12/30/2005 2:32:05 AM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		One of my relationships/ sub to a married Dom couple. Well the references were awesome! couldn't find two better people they were highly respected by so many and well known in the lifestyle.

What I found out or should I say what I finally realized well after the relationship had ended was that all the good I heard or references I was given were by their friends.

It occurred to me of course their friends would say all good things, because as the friends they were great people. but the friends didn't have a inner knowing of what they were like as far as in a D/s relationship.

My mistake was listening to the friends and not ever having asked any questions of any former subs. Months later after it had ended I then ran into a number of ex subs of this couple. I didn't hear one good word. In fact it was as if they were telling my own story. Each one of them told me things that were exactly the same as with had happened to myself.

So friends are great, but IMO if You want to know what a person is like in the relationship itself ask a former sub/slave.

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: References - 12/30/2005 3:22:20 AM   
plantlady64


Posts: 755
Joined: 5/19/2005
Status: offline 		Hello There,
For me, if I want a reference it needs to be on the phone or in person with the person giving the reference.
I also require anyone who says they are married or attached and play with permission to allow me to meet their signifigant other before I'll play with them privately so I can verify they have permission in person.
I fortunately have not had, or even heard of anyone having the experience you've mentioned here.

All I can say is anyone can say the right things, but few actually walk the walk that matches the words coming out of their mouths.
It feels like integrity, honor, and honesty are going the way of the wind to me sometimes. It's like the whole Tinkerbell thing. If not enough people believe in it, it dies out for the most part.


Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: References - 12/30/2005 3:42:19 AM   
krys


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
My favorite incident happened when I dropped by at ManRay, on one of the club's fetish nights. One of my friends came running over, grabbed my arm and dragged me over to a group, saying, "you gotta see this." When we got there, he introduced me to "John Warren, the famous writer." Evidently, this guy had just arrived and had announced his "identity" at the door and was now providing a little light amusement for the locals. I quickly gathered that he thought John Warren was a resident of NYC. What followed was a bit of low comedy as I, and the rest of the crowd, hung on the guy's every word. Unfortunately, it got to be too much as one and then another of the crowd broke down in laughter. Finally, I stopped gasping enough to offer the guy one of my cards. He took one look and literally ran for the door.

The next day, I told Janet, my publisher, that I wanted a picture of Libby and me on the cover of the next reprint.


You met your doppleganger at goth-kids-in-latex night at Manray? Wow, that must have been disturbing. I will be sure to send you an email if I ever see "you" someplace else.

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: References - 12/30/2005 4:23:08 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		Interesting topic, but let me add another side to Doms giving references. Some will use the names of subs who don’t want their names used. He will say he has scened with this and that sub when trying to establish himself with others. Personally, in the unlikely case I used a reference, I’m not about to use anyone’s name unless, I’m damn sure they don’t mind.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: References - 12/30/2005 4:44:50 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		I agree with Focus50 on this one, why ask one stranger to verify another....
~ ~ an amusing antidote..... after chatting with one for some time he wanted
to meet. being so new at the time and having heard of the use of references
i thought it might be the way to go even though i still thought it a bit silly i went
ahead and asked for one. The reply (through the net) came as an attachment.
The contents actually made me laugh, here was photo's of 10 different women
giving him a Blow Job. Needless to say that reference wasnt enough to sway
me.

Q, who didnt fall off the Tater Truck ever..............

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to ExistentialSteel)
Profile   Post #: 20
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