RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ !

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gman992 -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/18/2008 11:04:39 PM)
I don't like Wal-mart because the prices are just tooooooo low!!

Hippiekinkster -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 12:13:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Agrees. WalMart is a dirty soulless corporate whore. Seriously. That place just sucks. I won't shop there. I'll never understand why people hate walmart. do you not like a dirty soulless corporation that employs over 2 million individuals (many of whom would have a hard time finding employment/income without walmart)? do you not like a dirty soulless corporation that enables poor families to acquire products that heighten the quality of their lives in a way that is not possible without walmart? and what corporations have souls? I'll never understand you people. Do you mean those 2 million jobs that used to belong to small business owners and their employees (also neighbors) where people could actually make a decent living at, so they could afford houses and cars and to send their kids to college? THOSE two million jobs? Those two million jobs that people used to go to on the Main Streets of Anytown USA? Those two million jobs that are subsidized by the taxpayers, who are paying for the healthcare and childcare of those two million Walllyworld employees nationwide? Did you even watch the film I put the link up too, or are you too ideologically pure to consider that something you might believe is true, is actually false? Wait until you get out of college and get into the real world.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 12:19:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 I'm young...I don't have too much to worry about. I'm about to take out some student loans and pay them back when the obamessiah and big fat bernanke usher in a golden age of hyperinflation. the few ounces of gold I picked up four or so years ago have more than doubled in value, I picked up a little more a few months ago, and I'm trying to sell my old drumset to put a few more pamp suisse bars in my deposit box. I'll be more than fine through the devaluation of our currency. p.s. anyone want a 6 piece 9 ply canadian maple drumset (excellent condition). Ayotte?

Hippiekinkster -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 12:25:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gman992 I don't like Wal-mart because the prices are just tooooooo low!! Are you willing to watch this id on WalMart on the off chance that there might be some data that you are not aware of? I'm C&Ping a post from another thread. Ther link lies therein. "Those "cheap" goods at WalMart come with a price. Walmart is the biggest corporate welfare queen in the country. Your tax dollars directly subsidize Walmart's cheap prices and low wages by paying for medicare and food stamps for Walmart workers. And the amount of money they have gotten from communities giving them tax deferrals and other giveaways is obscene. All that Chinese junk they sell is made by people who are virtually slaves. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3836296181471292925&q=wal-mart http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/pdf/wmtstudy.pdf http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Corporate_Welfare/WalMart_Welfare.html All these wonderful bargains from China and Viet Nam and Thailand come at the expense of American workers, who used to have good jobs that could support families, but all those jobs are gone, and even two-income households can barely make ends meet these days. If anyone wonders why there aren't any jobs that pay much more than minimum wage, they need to look in the mirror. I cannot morally or ethically justify buying a thing from WalMart. Maybe you and other bargain seekers can."

variation30 -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 12:29:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Do you mean those 2 million jobs that used to belong to small business owners and their employees (also neighbors) where people could actually make a decent living at, so they could afford houses and cars and to send their kids to college? well first off, you are mistaken in thinking that this is a zero-sum game. this is a common mistake made by people who have no grasp of economics. this is to say that for every individual hired by wal-mart, another individual loses a job. this is obviously not the case. but let us assume for a moment that this is the case. is this a bad thing? if walmart runs out these mom and pop stores, then what does that mean? it means that people who were put out of business provided services and products in an inferior manner. wal-mart offered an alternative and the consumers chose walmart. why is the dissolution of an inferior service a bad thing? and it is not as if walmart runs people out of business...it is the consumers who chose walmart over their previous stores that run these crappy mom/pop joints out of business. so at least put blame where it is due. also, what is a 'decent living'. I've never understood this phrase. perhaps it is because I do not think in platitudes... why does one group of people (those who do not work at walmart) deserve a decent living and another (those that work at walmert) not deserve a decent living? quote: ]THOSE two million jobs? Those two million jobs that people used to go to on the Main Streets of Anytown USA? Those two million jobs that are subsidized by the taxpayers, who are paying for the healthcare and childcare of those two million Walllyworld employees nationwide? what is the difference between individuals who work on main street in anytown usa (please stop thinking in trite phrases) and individuals who work for walmart? and is it not the case that ALL citizens are subsidized by the taxpayers. an elderly couple running a small jewelry repair store gets the same government benefits as an elderly couple who greets people at walmart. this isn't endemic to walmart. though I do agree, all government aid programs should be abolished. quote: Did you even watch the film I put the link up too, or are you too ideologically pure to consider that something you might believe is true, is actually false? I didn't, but I'll make a point to do it after I get back from my dinner. quote: Wait until you get out of college and get into the real world. I doubt anything will change. my idealogies and beliefs don't change based upon what is beneficial to me - I'm more principled than that. if I get ran out of business by walmart when I get into the 'real world'...then it will be because my products are of low quality or over priced or my service is lackluster. I don't see how self-pity would change that fact.

variation30 -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 12:30:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Ayotte? yup. I took excellent care of it.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 1:11:55 AM)
You are mistaken in thinking that you are the first person who has encountered the concept of Economic Rents, and rent-seeking behavior. You are also mistaken in thinking that you are going to keep to the same ideas 20 years from now that you currently have. I can't explain it to you, and you won't accept it. That's fine. It'll happen. It's not as black and white as you believe. No, it isn't a zero-sum game, but also humans do not exhibit rational economic behavior, as postulated by classical economics. People won't go to Walmart because Main Street has 1)inferior quality, or 2) inferior service, or 3) an inferior price. They may go for reasons entirely unrelated to those factors; i.e., social pressure to shop at WalMart, or a relative works there, or they meet friends there. WalMart is most certainly subsidized by local and state governments, which the mom and pops cannot compete with. A ten-year property tax abatemnt gives a distinct advantage over Joe's Hardware, who has to pay those property taxes, and thus has to build them into his price structure. YOU: " I doubt anything will change. my idealogies and beliefs don't change based upon what is beneficial to me - I'm more principled than that. if I get ran out of business by walmart when I get into the 'real world'...then it will be because my products are of low quality or over priced or my service is lackluster. I don't see how self-pity would change that fact." or ot could be because of "dumping"; that is, selling goods below cost to obtain market share, like many Japanese firms did in the 70s and 80s. You WILL get put out of business if that concerted effort is made. Your service, quality, and price are no longer factors. WalMart drove Tweeter out of business, indirectly. Of course, the story is much more complicated than that http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/lessons-from-the-tweeter-saga.html it's my understanding that WalMart deliberately priced certain flat-screen-TVs as "loss leaders" in a thrust to eliminate competition in consumer electronics. This is great if you think an unregulated monopoly is a good thing. I do not. Once a company has eliminated competition, they can slowly raise the prices (like slowly raising the temp in a pot of water to anaesthetize a lobster) so that their prices are higher than with that little bit of competition "minimum pricing" afforded. That's why we have anti-trust laws (for all the good they do under the repubs). BTW, your remark, "I doubt anything will change. my idealogies and beliefs don't change based upon what is beneficial to me - I'm more principled than that." I submit that you are no different than the vast majority of people, myself included... our behavior is mutable and changes with what we think will be advantageous.

manxcat -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 1:32:16 AM)
Hey Hippie edited to add: Find another horse to beat, people have been prophesying doom by walmart for many years now. They are not the cause of all the U.S.'s finacial woes. Look to greed for that monkey. I have been way under employed for about 7 years, for various reasons including knee surgery, and poor job market. I have excellent and varied skills, just no market where i am. I have been supporting myself on about $520 a month for over a year now. Just recently i found another job (which btw i created when i was filling in on a cleaning job for a friend, at the local dialysis center. i saw a need and proved i could fulfill it), again part time and temporary - til i run out of ideas for repairs, etc, but better income than the modeling i was doing for the art institute, but still will only be making $750 a month. I have not had health care in that time either. I just had to spend $125 to get a starter for my 92 car, that i bought used. I have no choice but to shop at walmart and dollar stores. I cannot afford to care about those jobs and markets lost, which are not the fault of companies that provide quality products at reasonable prices. Something that Americans used to know how to do. We have lost the the right to complain about that when you must pay much more for an inferior product. I also know of no walmart worker who gets food stamps or medicare. And i know quite a few. You probably support the bank and auto bailouts too. And likely hate inexpensive foreign cars as well. Why not vilify the bankers and automakers and workers for creating so much of the financial upheaval we are in now. Back when minimum wage was $3.35 an hour, auto workers were making $18.00+ per hour, with obscene benefits they are still getting. That was the beginning. They were part of the greed of their owners who insisted on making stupid cars, and foisting them on the American people. I just got home from that job where i worked for 12 hours because i lost 4 days of work while waiting for someone to fix my car. And no, i am not bitter, nor am i having a pity party. I am grateful that i learned the skills early, that enabled me to turn a favor for a friend into a mainentance job. I am grateful that i will have some extra money to have my tooth temporarily filled, as root canal is insanely out of reach. Do you have a clue how much it costs for that? A friend just had one done, with Post Office insurance and still had to pay over $800 on top of what the insurance paid. And variation30, while i agree with most of what you said, i have to disagree with you on the government progams. I hope you are not getting low cost student loans, or Pell grants, and that your college or university gets absolutely no gov't funding. Even if you are paying lower tuition for attending a state college, or live in the state that college is in, that is gov't subsidy. I also hope that you don't eat in a student cafeteria, most of which are subsidized by gov't programs. You said "also, what is a 'decent living'. I've never understood this phrase. perhaps it is because I do not think in platitudes... why does one group of people (those who do not work at walmart) deserve a decent living and another (those that work at walmert) not deserve a decent living? " Good on you for that, but what about those people who worked for minimum wage all their lives, and now their social security and savings do not cover all their expenses in this greed ridden world. Would you take their food stamps, or heating assitance - allowing perhaps your (hypothetical) grandparents to starve or eat cat food, or freeze? Aw fuck i am wasting my time here. Sooner or later Americans are going to have to acknowledge that we are in a global economy. Those jobs are part of the world we all live in. And the sooned you and so many others realize it and get with the program, the better. manxcat ____________ I would rather be vilified for doing the right thing than be praised for doing the wrong thing.

camille65 -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 1:32:36 AM)
Excellent post Hippiekinkster.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 2:10:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: manxcat Hey Hippie edited to add: Find another horse to beat, people have been prophesying doom by walmart for many years now. They are not the cause of all the U.S.'s finacial woes. Look to greed for that monkey. No they aren't. They're part of the problem, though. quote: I have been way under employed for about 7 years, for various reasons including knee surgery, and poor job market. I have excellent and varied skills, just no market where i am. I have been supporting myself on about $520 a month for over a year now. Just recently i found another job (which btw i created when i was filling in on a cleaning job for a friend, at the local dialysis center. i saw a need and proved i could fulfill it), again part time and temporary - til i run out of ideas for repairs, etc, but better income than the modeling i was doing for the art institute, but still will only be making $750 a month. I have not had health care in that time either. I just had to spend $125 to get a starter for my 92 car, that i bought used. I'm not in the best of shape myself. I'm basically fixed income, and with one eye and a deteriorating spine and other blessings, I'm not prime employment materiel either. Don't think you are alone. (Keep this in mind for later) quote: I have no choice but to shop at walmart and dollar stores. I cannot afford to care about those jobs and markets lost, which are not the fault of companies that provide quality products at reasonable prices. Something that Americans used to know how to do. We have lost the the right to complain about that when you must pay much more for an inferior product. I also know of no walmart worker who gets food stamps or medicare. And i know quite a few. I can't help you if you don't want to hear those who DO have to get medicaid and food stamps. Just because YOU don't know any, does not mean they don't exist. You get that, right? Now, when is the last time you did any comparative shopping, say, for socks, or whatever. WalMart is not necessarily the cheapest. But they ARE the company that uses the most oppressed labor in China, Thailand, Viet nam, and so on. You say you can't afford to worry about them. How can you not? How can you not care about people who are forced to work 12 hour days 6 days a week, and on the 7th day, they can barely be with family, rest, shop, learn, watch movies, and the like. Think about that if that were you. quote: You probably support the bank and auto bailouts too. And likely hate inexpensive foreign cars as well. You would be wrong. You obviously have not read a word I've written here. quote: Why not vilify the bankers and automakers and workers for creating so much of the financial upheaval we are in now. Back when minimum wage was $3.35 an hour, auto workers were making $18.00+ per hour, with obscene benefits they are still getting. My God, you really think they make obscene benefits? What if ALL working class AMericans made wages and benefits like that? Would that be obscene? Your Republican Neocon Overlords want you to think that working people don't deserve the fruit of their labors. This seems to be something you have taken to heart. I believe that they are much more deserving of getting fair pay for their labor than some inbred shit trust-fund fuck who hasn't done fuck-all to earn the millions he's getting. And yes I know what a root canal costs. I don't have dental insurance, unlike your friend. You don't know jack about me. But I will tell you this: I have my standards, and they don't include making the Walton family any richer than they are by fucking my fellow citizens and shopping there. I will spend more money and buy something made by a neighbor than I will buying some shitty cheap-assed Asian shit. ____________ I would rather be vilified for doing the right thing than be praised for doing the wrong thing.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 2:13:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 Excellent post Hippiekinkster. Thank you. I have convictions. Blame Bob Dylan. [8D]

LaTigresse -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 4:44:51 AM)
I have no problem using the cheap whore that is Walmart. I need laundry detergent and toilet paper, they've got it.

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 6:28:04 AM)
I stocked up on my tp for the coming collapse of society at walmart. not because it was cheaper, just because it was funner to have 3 carts of toilet paper and have them tell me I can't buy that much at once. They forget I can step foot outside and come back. oops, I broke the rules. fuck walmart, kmart, target, whatever. We hate them, but sadly they are part of america now. I remeber my hometowns main street dying when walmart came to town. and prices weren't any cheaper. But now, where else can I get my stockpile of tp and giant bucket of laundry deteregent? (I buy it in like 6 month quanities). I would like to learn how to make my own things, but looking like a mountain man in a modern american city would look weird. And wearing a loin cloth is frowned on in most public places. :( I'm babbling now, and need my coffee. bye bye for now

pahunkboy -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 6:45:21 AM)
Yeah Rex, I got a comment when I bought a case of cereal at aldis. What is a box? 3 servings? 4? I think my brother broke the last straw. Any thoughts I had of a family holiday are cancelled as there will only be a fight. 3 calls now, he asks me what I think, then he doesn't like what the answer is. I am debating on how to word it with mom. I am the asshole. Early on, I try to avoid anyone toxic. Be sure to snap photos with your camera phone when the clerk says no. Whip out a clip board and start taking notes. Ask them to bring you a chair.. as you have all day to learn the policies for which you profoundly apologize for being ignorant of.... call a group meeting. ask to use their intercom.. so as to call for group hugs right now. start humming the walmart theme song. ask the greeter to massage the corn on your feet. and ask for a cup of cofffe. if the chair is hard, ask for a customer to grab you a pillow from the shelf. some snacks would be good about now. isle 12 has plenty. ask the greeter for an aspirin too. you hadnt seen the family pics of teh greeter yet, have you?

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 7:02:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Yeah Rex, I got a comment when I bought a case of cereal at aldis. What is a box? 3 servings? 4? I think my brother broke the last straw. Any thoughts I had of a family holiday are cancelled as there will only be a fight. 3 calls now, he asks me what I think, then he doesn't like what the answer is. I am debating on how to word it with mom. I am the asshole. Early on, I try to avoid anyone toxic. Be sure to snap photos with your camera phone when the clerk says no. Whip out a clip board and start taking notes. Ask them to bring you a chair.. as you have all day to learn the policies for which you profoundly apologize for being ignorant of.... call a group meeting. ask to use their intercom.. so as to call for group hugs right now. start humming the walmart theme song. ask the greeter to massage the corn on your feet. and ask for a cup of cofffe. if the chair is hard, ask for a customer to grab you a pillow from the shelf. some snacks would be good about now. isle 12 has plenty. ask the greeter for an aspirin too. you hadnt seen the family pics of teh greeter yet, have you? lol, they were kind of dumb struck I was buying so much tp.

pahunkboy -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 7:11:28 AM)
I got the attittude when I bought a bunch of inhalers from CVS. I thought, hmm, the money paying for this, pays YOUR salary. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. the idea is suppose to be to move merchandise. Maybe they needed to see how toilet paper is a functional item to have around the house. lol

lusciouslips19 -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 7:18:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Do you mean those 2 million jobs that used to belong to small business owners and their employees (also neighbors) where people could actually make a decent living at, so they could afford houses and cars and to send their kids to college? well first off, you are mistaken in thinking that this is a zero-sum game. this is a common mistake made by people who have no grasp of economics. this is to say that for every individual hired by wal-mart, another individual loses a job. this is obviously not the case. but let us assume for a moment that this is the case. is this a bad thing? if walmart runs out these mom and pop stores, then what does that mean? it means that people who were put out of business provided services and products in an inferior manner. wal-mart offered an alternative and the consumers chose walmart. why is the dissolution of an inferior service a bad thing? and it is not as if walmart runs people out of business...it is the consumers who chose walmart over their previous stores that run these crappy mom/pop joints out of business. so at least put blame where it is due. also, what is a 'decent living'. I've never understood this phrase. perhaps it is because I do not think in platitudes... why does one group of people (those who do not work at walmart) deserve a decent living and another (those that work at walmert) not deserve a decent living? quote: ]THOSE two million jobs? Those two million jobs that people used to go to on the Main Streets of Anytown USA? Those two million jobs that are subsidized by the taxpayers, who are paying for the healthcare and childcare of those two million Walllyworld employees nationwide? what is the difference between individuals who work on main street in anytown usa (please stop thinking in trite phrases) and individuals who work for walmart? and is it not the case that ALL citizens are subsidized by the taxpayers. an elderly couple running a small jewelry repair store gets the same government benefits as an elderly couple who greets people at walmart. this isn't endemic to walmart. though I do agree, all government aid programs should be abolished. quote: Did you even watch the film I put the link up too, or are you too ideologically pure to consider that something you might believe is true, is actually false? I didn't, but I'll make a point to do it after I get back from my dinner. quote: Wait until you get out of college and get into the real world. I doubt anything will change. my idealogies and beliefs don't change based upon what is beneficial to me - I'm more principled than that. if I get ran out of business by walmart when I get into the 'real world'...then it will be because my products are of low quality or over priced or my service is lackluster. I don't see how self-pity would change that fact. Well, number one the quality isn't better. But since you seem to not understand the problem with Walmart pricing things so low as to put Mom and Pop out of business and how they destroyed manufacturing in America with their only willing to pay for the lowest priced goods, I will post something that was on ABC . It explains why falling prices is a bad thing. perhaps you will learn something and you will "get" it. http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=11153900&ch=4226720&src=news

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 7:20:15 AM)
its pretty much pointless to argue with ole variation. I laugh and shake my head now and post fun stories about buying 3 shopping carts of tp.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 7:27:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni its pretty much pointless to argue with ole variation. I laugh and shake my head now and post fun stories about buying 3 shopping carts of tp. Kids.....they think they know everything. i think a sign of maturity is when you realize you know very little.

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: What is your "plan" ? ~ ~ ! (12/19/2008 7:34:20 AM)
I'm still "young" (even though I feel old as hell sometimes), but I realized a lllllloooooooooonnnnnnnggggggggg time ago, in the end I don't know jack. Time for more coffee.

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