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Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 3:16:40 PM

Vendaval

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After the shootings in Baghdad's Nisoor Square I wondered how long it would be until this happened. Now the question is how to protect US diplomats in Iraq if Blackwater is not able to operate there.

"IG report says Blackwater may lose license in Iraq"

By MATTHEW LEE, Associated Press Writer Matthew Lee, Associated Press Writer – 31 mins ago

"WASHINGTON – An internal State Department report says Blackwater Worldwide may lose its license to work in Iraq and recommends that the agency prepare alternative means to protect its diplomats there.

The 42-page draft report by the State Department's Inspector General says the department faces "numerous challenges" in dealing with the security situation in Iraq, including the prospect that Blackwater may be barred from the country. The department would have turn to other security arrangements to replace Blackwater, officials said."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081217/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_blackwater

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 3:30:33 PM

kittinSol

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About time too - but what I'd really like is to see those bastards' business dismantled for good.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 5:09:32 PM

MisterMonster

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Damn. Blackwater was awesome.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 5:42:02 PM

kittinSol

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 5:52:03 PM

MisterMonster

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They were mercenaries who disregarded all rules and safety of others. Soldiers of Fortune. Really, they were a great opportunity, say if the Army needed something done, but couldn't afford to get their hands dirty...

Such talent wasted.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 6:27:58 PM

HunterS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterMonster

They were mercenaries who disregarded all rules and safety of others. Soldiers of Fortune. Really, they were a great opportunity, say if the Army needed something done, but couldn't afford to get their hands dirty...

Such talent wasted.

I thought that was why we have the Marine corps.

H.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 7:17:19 PM

MisterMonster

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Good point.

Still, always nice to have a helping hand. And with this economy, the last thing we need are businesses closing down.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 7:45:56 PM

HunterS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterMonster

Good point.

Still, always nice to have a helping hand. And with this economy, the last thing we need are businesses closing down.

The marines do a better job.
The marines are not a bunch of fucking prima-donnas.
The marines work a whole lot cheaper.
Blackwater is nothing more than a bunch of undisciplined,overpaid thugs.
Little could make me happier than to see that whole orgainzation dismantled and thrown in prison.

H.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 8:03:03 PM

Lynnxz

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Blah, Blackwater.

Overrated IMO, and good LORD the egos on those guys.... ok ok so I don't have a real reason to dislike them, but we met a couple while at Ft Sam, and they were generally obnoxious.

Also, wasn't a big fan of the grenading of unarmed citizens.

Still not sure of the full story on that one.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 8:37:28 PM

slaveboyforyou

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All those Blackwater guys are veterans of elite military units ie. Marine Recon, Army Special Forces and Rangers, Navy Seals, etc. It's not like Blackwater were recruiting people off the streets. Most of the guys involved in that infamous shooting were former Marines. Your "Marines are disciplined" argument doesn't hold much merit.

We don't have enough people in the military to carry out duties like this. It's a necessary evil, and most Western countries deal with mercenaries. Mercenaries have been a part of warfare since ancient times. War is messy, and I don't know why people expect otherwise.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 8:42:56 PM

Naga

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I think we need to put some of the bailout money towards Blackwater. These are skilled former military personal who are able to do jobs the military can't do for various political reasons which is why they were protecting diplomats in the first place. We can't afford to lose them.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 8:45:18 PM

kittinSol

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I don't know what the exact figure is, because Blackwater are so secretive with all of their recruitement policies and other activities, but I remember reading that they recruit many of their staff from the ranks of ex police officers.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 8:54:12 PM

slaveboyforyou

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For certain jobs they do, Kittin. They have people that train diplomats, businessmen, and security officers in evasive driving, surveillence, esape and evasion, counter-surveillance, etc. They also hire pilots and medics. For the security jobs in war zones, they hire ex-military people from elite units.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 8:55:09 PM

Naga

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That may be so, but they need military background to apply. One of the papers needed for final processing is a DD-214. Those are honorable discharge papers from the military.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 8:58:09 PM

kittinSol

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Honourable shmuckable.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 9:21:25 PM

Lorr47

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quote:

I thought that was why we have the Marine corps.

H.

Yes. I do not accept the concept of War Crimes vis a vis our soldiers in the field, but I bet there is a differing opinion as to Blackwater which may sway me; be it in regard to Prince or the mercenaries who did the shooting. However, Prince is incredibly wealthy; incredibly republican; incredibly wired (DeVos family and Amway) so I guess the issue is academic.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 10:15:09 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga

I think we need to put some of the bailout money towards Blackwater. These are skilled former military personal who are able to do jobs the military can't do for various political reasons which is why they were protecting diplomats in the first place. We can't afford to lose them.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/12/08/blackwater-guards.html

...i take it those jobs that can't be done for political reason include killing unarmed civilians with their arms in the air surrendering? i'd argue that jobs like that ought not to be done for other reasons than merely political. Ethical, human and sensible are the sort of reasons i have in mind.

The incident referenced in the link above may well be a war crime. Those responsible ought to be prosecuted as such.......then either cleared or sentenced to an appropriate punishment.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 11:21:16 PM

Naga

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

The incident referenced in the link above may well be a war crime. Those responsible ought to be prosecuted as such.......then either cleared or sentenced to an appropriate punishment.

That is a pretty biased article. It does not mention, for example, that there was a car approaching the convoy on the wrong side of the road that ignored directions to stop and pull over as well as ignoring warning shots. It looked like a setup and the contractors responded to it. I can't blame them for that.

I have never been in a combat zone nor do I have any military experience, but friends who do and have stated that they would have responded similarly, especially if they had been "in country" long.

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 11:26:51 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

The incident referenced in the link above may well be a war crime. Those responsible ought to be prosecuted as such.......then either cleared or sentenced to an appropriate punishment.

That is a pretty biased article. It does not mention, for example, that there was a car approaching the convoy on the wrong side of the road that ignored directions to stop and pull over as well as ignoring warning shots. It looked like a setup and the contractors responded to it. I can't blame them for that.

I have never been in a combat zone nor do I have any military experience, but friends who do and have stated that they would have responded similarly, especially if they had been "in country" long.

...from the allegedly biased article, "An Iraqi government investigation found the shootings were unprovoked.". Care to link to any data that mentions the alleged non-stopping vehicle? Or is it just a piece of fiction designed to justify the actions of these men?

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RE: Blackwater may loose license in Iraq - 12/17/2008 11:50:40 PM

Naga

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...from the allegedly biased article, "An Iraqi government investigation found the shootings were unprovoked.". Care to link to any data that mentions the alleged non-stopping vehicle? Or is it just a piece of fiction designed to justify the actions of these men?

Sure, I can't find the orgininal article I had from the FBI research, but here is a New York Times article that references those remarks:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/world/middleeast/14blackwater.html?_r=1&ex=1352696400&en=4d3e7a7a4fbc5721&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

"Among the 17 killings, three may have been justified under rules that allow lethal force to be used in response to an imminent threat, the F.B.I. agents have concluded. They concluded that Blackwater guards might have perceived a threat when they opened fire on a white Kia sedan that moved toward Nisour Square after traffic had been stopped for a Blackwater convoy of four armored vehicles."

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