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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/18/2008 3:59:03 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

So someone without faith and spirituality cannot possibly have convictions?

No. He cannot. The one precedes the other.

No. Your wrong.

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/18/2008 4:18:17 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

So someone without faith and spirituality cannot possibly have convictions?

No. He cannot. The one precedes the other.

Really?

So, because I'm not a believer I have no character or convictions?

I cannot take a moral stand on an issue because all concepts of morality originate with some great unseen supernatural being?

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/18/2008 4:41:11 PM

HunterS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steponme73

First of all people with ethics, accountability or interity don't go into politics. So to find a happy medium will never happen. People who go into politics go to fatten their own wallets and could care less about us. Plus most of them can't hold a real job anyway....that is why they go into politics.

Gee, I'd love to see the studies on that.

Share the references?

Two names spring immediately to mind:
Bob Dole who has never had a private sector job in his life and
George Bush who has failed at every job he has ever had including president.
I do not mean to pick republicrats as opposed to demopubs as there are more than a few of them also it is just that those two jumped out when I read your question.

H.

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/18/2008 4:44:47 PM

HunterS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

My comments are not an answer to the op’s question but to the many who think our congress and politicians in general have no integrity.

I'll bet most...I'll go a step farther... the vast majority of our political representatives care deeply about America and work for nothing but the best of the citizens they represent.

Hell ...just look at the different ideas and ways of thinking on any thread on cm...Now why do you think it is any easier for elected officials to agree. Especially when they must represent the wants and needs of their particular states... As a Senator of New York I could care less about the wants and needs of Missouri and vice versa... that is the reason for pork.

On international issues they would disagree just as much as we do here. I think over the long haul they do a fine job of regulating America.

Butch

Bartender...
Give me a double shot of what ever he is having

H.

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/18/2008 4:47:01 PM

Musicmystery

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Hi Hunter,

Agreed, but the proposition encompasses several thousand people in politics, not a few high profile examples. We could also generally agree on some successful and respected presidents and senators--still not universally loved, including Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, etc., yet leaving the assertion still unsupported, just an attitude.

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/18/2008 4:47:42 PM

HunterS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

So someone without faith and spirituality cannot possibly have convictions?

No. He cannot. The one precedes the other.

A more presumptuous post I have never seen.

H.

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/18/2008 5:02:25 PM

HunterS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Hi Hunter,

Agreed, but the proposition encompasses several thousand people in politics, not a few high profile examples. We could also generally agree on some successful and respected presidents and senators--still not universally loved, including Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, etc., yet leaving the assertion still unsupported, just an attitude.

I agree, that with all the tens of thousands of politicians from Washington,Adams and Jefferson to the current crop there must be from time to time some with ethical values. The sad thing is that the older I get the more I read... I keep finding the heros of my youth have clay feet.
I recently read a biography of John Adams by David McCullough, that coupled with Fawn Brodie's biography of Jefferson has given me new insight on Jefferson which has diminished my youthful appreciation of him by several orders of magnitude.
With Jefferson reduced to the level of a mear mortal how can I hope to find hope in the Clintons,Bushes and Nixons of today?

H.

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/18/2008 5:04:50 PM

Musicmystery

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Have you ever read Hawthorne's "Young Goodman Brown"?

And for what it's worth, my heroes are Ben Franklin, Albert Einstein, and W.A. Mozart--all clearly flawed human beings, for all their talent and accomplishments.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 12/18/2008 5:06:13 PM >

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/18/2008 5:25:08 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Hi Hunter,

Agreed, but the proposition encompasses several thousand people in politics, not a few high profile examples. We could also generally agree on some successful and respected presidents and senators--still not universally loved, including Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, etc., yet leaving the assertion still unsupported, just an attitude.

Its not an attitude...with every election the majority electorate agrees ... if they do not serve the electorate they are not reelected. As you have said taking a few high profile cases of corruption and assuming all ..or even most are crooked is not clear thinking and certainly not supported by the majority.

Butch

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/18/2008 5:31:46 PM

kdsub

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Of the 534 or 5 members of our congress...how many are proven guilty each year of corruption?... I'll bet a lower percentage then most other professions. Think of the number of people in your business or profession that cheat and lie... do you think it is 2 or 3 out of 500 plus?

Yes I do agree we must hold them to a higher standard and I think most pass the test.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/18/2008 5:34:56 PM >

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/19/2008 12:20:51 AM

Naga

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Of the 534 or 5 members of our congress...how many are proven guilty each year of corruption?... I'll bet a lower percentage then most other professions. Think of the number of people in your business or profession that cheat and lie... do you think it is 2 or 3 out of 500 plus?

Do you honestly think it is out 2 or 3 out of Congress? Please do a little research! In fact, let me help.

Here is the Fourth Annual Review of Corrupt Members of Congress:

http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/34046

It is put out by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) and lists known ethics violations and illegal activities. You realize that Congress mostly investigates itself, right? And it is mostly used to take advantage of the other guy, if you can get one over on him.

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/19/2008 1:33:55 AM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Agreed, religion has no place in politics.

Religion has a very definite place--in the hearts of erstwhile politicians.

A man with no religion at all--a man with no faith in his heart--is a poor choice of leader, and thus a poor politician.

Leadership requires the courage of one's convictions, which in turn requires a man have convictions, which arise from whatever faith and spirituality--whatever "religion", if you will--dwell within him.

I'm an Atheist. I have the courage of my convictions.
Go ahead and claim I don't.

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/19/2008 4:44:01 AM

MmeGigs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
However I dont think that being religious should prevent anyone from being in politics.

Right now, a lack of religion does prevent one from being in politics, at least on a state or national stage. To say that one is an agnostic or atheist would be political suicide.

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/19/2008 4:45:08 AM

MmeGigs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

So someone without faith and spirituality cannot possibly have convictions?

No. He cannot. The one precedes the other.

That's an incredibly bone-headed statement.

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RE: Experience + ethics + accountability in politics - 12/19/2008 7:20:07 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Naga

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Of the 534 or 5 members of our congress...how many are proven guilty each year of corruption?... I'll bet a lower percentage then most other professions. Think of the number of people in your business or profession that cheat and lie... do you think it is 2 or 3 out of 500 plus?

Do you honestly think it is out 2 or 3 out of Congress? Please do a little research! In fact, let me help.

Here is the Fourth Annual Review of Corrupt Members of Congress:

http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/34046

It is put out by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) and lists known ethics violations and illegal activities. You realize that Congress mostly investigates itself, right? And it is mostly used to take advantage of the other guy, if you can get one over on him.

That’s a crap link... anyone can may accusations...show me those convicted of corruption this year...not those singled out by right or left wing fanatics...the conviction is what counts not false accusations by political opponents.

Butch

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