Cutting off noses to spite faces (Full Version)

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chiara -> Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 12:33:46 AM)

Scenario with which i need some help, Please.
i am a slave, i live and have lived with me Master for the last 6 months.
W/we live away from my family and friends, and close to His.
Xmas was discussed.....
Master has an ex wife and 3, 20 something year old 'Kids'
His wifes Birthday is on Boxing day......
She asked Him to spend Boxing day with her & the 'Children '
i have had a huge problem with Him agreeing to this
W/we had planned to go to the Boxing day races ...
for me, Xmas includes Boxing day.
i have told Master i could deal with the whole Xmas things
a little easier, if He were to be away the whole of the Xmas
and to spend it with His ex wife and 'children'
which He readily and happily said He would do.
my questions are ......
1.was i  being selfish
2. Have i cut my nose off to spite my face
3, doesnt this tell me something about O/our future, bearing in mind this was O/our first Xmas to gether.

Please be gentle with me................
Coz i sure am sad......




Lashra -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 3:31:39 AM)

Your a slave and he is the Master, he sets the rules and you play by them. So yes, your getting a taste of what your future will hold as his property.

Good luck,
~Lashra




LaTigresse -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 3:37:21 AM)

What Lashra said......and yes, it appears you did cut off your nose to spite your face.

And, since when did you, as a slave, feel the right to set parameters for him, your master?

Grow up and deal. Be a slave or rethink what it means to you, AND to your master.

Also, in my world, family (my kids and grands) will ALWAYS come before the slave. She knows that, if it was going to be a problem for her she shouldn't have asked to belong to me.

And last but not least, as a slave, selfish shouldn't come into the picture at all. Unless your definition of slave varies greatly from mine.




Rover -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 3:56:48 AM)

He can't be Master if you won't let him.
 
John




persephonee -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 4:04:32 AM)

i dont know about the whole M/s dynamic here in this post...but in general, if you "have a huge problem" with something and yet tell your partner, who you are supposed to be completely honest with...to do the exact thing, and more, of what you have a huge problem with....then, no, in my opinion, you have no room to bitch about it or even feel badly privately.
Do you think in any relationship that your partner would actually choose you over children?? At a holiday event?? If this is the case, i wish you a  whole lotta luck.

im not even saying that if you had a huge problem, he should have done things differently, but in an honest exchange, you could have been heard and then felt better about the decision made in the end....

but thats just me...not a Master, and not owned....

perse




DarkSteven -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 5:16:51 AM)

chiara, there's a huge difference between being a sub and a slave.  you may want to revisit the relationship with your Master,  you seem to want to have some say in decisions.  That's a lot healthier than letting him make decisions, and then trying to manipulate him afterwards.

Plus you need to ask yourself a simplr relationship question - how do you express your opinions honestly and let him decide, instead of giving him a choice you really don't want him to take?




DeferentialBaby2 -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:07:01 AM)

You're getting bashed after asking for gentlness because you feel terrible. So very helpful! So kind of you all!  (rolls eyes).

You're new to slavery. You will will screw up. You will find it hard to adjust.  Don't let others' ideas of unrealstic perfection confuse you. 

I'll comment on your comments first.

Overall, what a bunch of cold, unhelpful remarks. Does asking your audience to be gentle always bring out the viciousness in people? It sure seems to on message boards. Bah!

"Your a slave and he is the Master, he sets the rules and you play by them. So yes, your getting a taste of what your future will hold as his property." You certainly seem to be crowing and cackling over this, poster. I wonder why? I also don't think it's a very honest representation of the thread-starter's situation and I wonder why you choose this particular "spin" and generalization? Bad experiences of your own, perchance?

" as a slave, selfish shouldn't come into the picture at all. "
That  remark about "selfishness" made me laugh uproariously--and I hope you know, Chiara, that it is totally unrealistic.  Not even the most saintly human being is completely unselfish. If you are human, you are going to be selfish: becoming a slave or wanting to be a slave doesn't magically change that and make you into some perfect unselfish being.  You can improve, over time, you can lessen the selfishness, lessen your ego that still wants to control, but it's a long process and we aren't brought up as slaves or trained as children to be slaves--we're brought up to be ordinary (that means selfish) human beings, interested in self-survival.  Learning to be less selfish is a long process and also requires your master's help. It's very hard to dominate and change yourself in a vacuum.

"He can't be master if you don't let him" is often the attitude of dominants who do not really want to dominate or own slaves. They want the slaves to have all the power and they spin things so that the slave is always placed in the position of ultimate controller.  Not all dominants or masters feel the same, thank god .

I also don't see you as setting any paramenters for your master. That remark, as well, seems totally off the wall. You and he were having a discussion. Unless he expressly forbade you at some earlier point from saying the sort of thing you said to him, then you are performing perfectly within his rule.

Now back to your situation.

What I do see is someone who made a mistake because she asked for something she really didn't want. This is understandable. The relationship is new. As the slave, you are in an insecure position. The relationship creates that: it's normal. Maybe you are new to slavery. Or maybe you were a slave before this point but you weren't a slave to him and you're still learning HIM,  still feeling your way. People often misrepresent things to others when under the influence of strong emotions. It's a human trait, you are human, slavery doesn't magically turn you into a perfect angelic being who never screws up, and those that imagine it does... are fools.  Your master didn't catch the fact that you didn't mean what you said. Some dominants will, over time, learn to read you and catch some of these things, as reading you, to a truly dominant person, is a way of gaing more control over you, and that is ambrosia to someone who really loves to own and dominate.  But nobody is perfect at this and this relationship is just as new to him as it is to you. 

What I would suggest you do at this point is not take to heart the scoldings of those who live in glass houses but insist upon throwing stones (stern look around the thread).  The point now is to try to fix this situation as as best you can. What's done is done, but that doesn't mean everything is writ in stone.  What I would do if I were you at this point is go talk to my master and tell tell him everything. Tell him how I really feel about the holiday and being without him. Confess that I said what I said, not because I really wanted him to spend our first Christmas away from me, but because I felt... what? What did you feel? Scared? Threatened? Jealous of the ex? Frustrated? Whatever it was you actually felt when you told him it'd be easier if he was gone the entire holiday is what you should admit to him. Don't ask him to do anything, let him decide that, just tell him how you feel. It feels very good to be honest and come clean to your dominant. He may decide not to change anything, if so, be ready to accept this. He may ask you what you want, if so, be honest and tell him but don't think that this means you'll get it--he's just asking for information. This isn't about getting what you want, it's about being as a good a slave to him as you can be. You will feel better, even if it's too late change plans or he doesn't want to change his plans. And there will be future, and, I hope, more happier Christmases for you both.  This is just one holiday. In terms of a long relationship it's a drop in the bucket. Much later, somday, I hope you will both be laughing over it and calling it the "screwed up Christmas."  :)

PS:  Do you miss your family? Will you be able to see them this holiday while he is away with is? If being away from them bothers you, tell him that as well, but do not have the expectation that he will immediatly do something about it. He may, he may not. He's your master, and, if you love and revere him, just obey and try to trust that whatever happens, it is for the best.  Master and slave relationships do not always work out. But if you try your very best to be as good a slave as you can then, even if this one doesn't work, you'll have no regrets later on and will be more confident and happy about your ability to serve a future master.




chamberqueen -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:21:20 AM)

chiara, I think you knew the answer before you ever posted the question.  This is your first Christmas together and he wanted to be with you.  That was wonderful.  (I will be alone with my kitten for Christmas.)  What you have basically done is to say, "if I can't have it my way I don't want it at all".   Think of the pain that you may have cause him by telling him that you don't want to spend Christmas with him. 

Slaves have as much right to thoughts and emotions as anyone else.  The difference is that we need to be very careful in how to express them.  Sometimes our feelings are hurt very badly.  That doesn't make us bad slaves - that makes us humans with expectations that are not always met.  On the other hand the needs of the Master are met far beyond what would normally be expected from a vanilla relationship and that in itself can hurt us.  It is not easy to be a slave.  It takes sacrifice and commitment; it takes putting someone else's needs in front of our own - often many times a day. 

You need to remember the things that are important to him, and his children will be a big part of that.  This is not to say that YOU are not important to him, but as a slave we have to look at the big picture and try to see through our Master's eyes.  I am a slave - not a girlfriend.  While my Master often does kind things for me and helps me when I am in need I have to remember my place in his life.  I am here for his pleasure, not the other way around.  If I derive pleasure from our journey then so much the better for both of us, but in reality we have chosen to give of ourselves for the pleasure of another. 

If I were you I would give a humble apology and let him know that you were taken off guard; that you know that his children are important to him, and that you are sorry that you let your expectations get in the way.  I have found that having expectations that are too high has given me more pain in my relationship than any other factor.  If I just relax and enjoy the good things as they come instead of having preset ideas of what should happen that I am much happier.  Accept the fact that others will also be important to him and that there are times you need to take the back burner to them.  Holidays can cause a lot of stress on everyone involved, especially the first one in a relationship because you each have your own ideas of how it "should" play out.  I sincerely hope that you can work things out and get enjoyment from the holiday season.




CalifChick -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:22:29 AM)

Before I become serious with anyone, one of the things that I find out is what is his relationship with his exwife (if any) and his children are.

Does his ex want him to play "happy family" at every holiday?  (meaning he, his ex, and his children spend holidays together)
Am I going to be spending every holiday alone while he sees his children?
Are we going to be seeing his children together?
Are the children going to be coming to our home?
Is the ex going to be coming to our home?

I tried wording these questions so there would not be bias, but it is difficult.  I'm not saying there are right or wrong answers, I'm saying these are the things I want to know.  If he is friendly with his exwife, great.  If he is friendly with his exwife and she is a scheming biotch who excludes me from every occasion she possibly can, not so great.

So, in your situation, since his children are grown, I'm curious as to why he is leaving you alone to go play happy family with his exwife and not including you.


Cali




MadRabbit -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:23:14 AM)

Okay....I gotta ask.

What the hell is "Boxing Day"?




ItalianSMistress -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:25:31 AM)

I think that Lashra and LaTigresse answered this perfectly.  When I read it, I thought, alright, problem solved.....next thread....
 
To the poster right above me: those remarks were not cold, nor unhelpful, they were true.  Sometimes the truth hurts, yes, but it does not make it any less true.  The bottom line is that you are the slave, and he is the Master, and even if he was not, and this was a vanilla relationship, just like was stated, if you think he is going to put you before his children, you are insane.
 
I also wanted to say that I find it mildly offensive that you kept putting the word children in quotations, no matter how old they are, they are still his children, even another twenty years from now, and they will still be important, esp around FAMILY HOLIDAYS.....
 
One more thing, it was cutting off your nose to spite your face, cuz he was going to spend Christmas with you, and just because you consider Boxing Day part of that holiday, not everyone does (including myself), and you should have never assumed that he was going to spend both those days with you and not see his children at all, I think that is very selfish.  I think it was perfectly reasonable to spend one day with you and one day with them, and the fact that it was not good enough for you, most likely pissed him off.  I know it would me.

Edited to add that at the time I typed this the poster right above me was: Deferentialbaby2




sunshinedreams -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:29:30 AM)

Something that I found helpful when in situations that were less than wonderful for the holidays, is to remember that, in the end, it is really just another day. Maybe the celebrating could be scheduled the next day or next week. I have had to do this in my own life, and it is always better than getting all bent out of shape because life doesn't live up to my expectations. I have found the days that are celebrated on the wrong day, are usually even better, because there had to be more thought and care put into it.
This is just a solution that has worked for me. I hope you find one that helps you. 




ItalianSMistress -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:33:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Okay....I gotta ask.

What the hell is "Boxing Day"?


The day after Christmas, every year, usually filled with returns and huge sales.....




CalifChick -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:35:00 AM)

I have re-read the OP, and I see nowhere where she expected to come before his children.  They made plans to spend boxing day together, then when his exwife asked, he cancelled those plans and decided to see his exwife and kids instead. 

Why is she excluded?  Why is his former wife more important than the woman he lives with? 

I wouldn't get all worked up over "kids" or "children" in quotes; I saw it as a way to show the children are grown and we are not talking about toddlers that don't understand why daddy doesn't live here anymore, and why is this new woman holding daddy's hand instead of mommy holding his hand.


Cali




ItalianSMistress -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:45:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I have re-read the OP, and I see nowhere where she expected to come before his children.  They made plans to spend boxing day together, then when his exwife asked, he cancelled those plans and decided to see his exwife and kids instead. 

Why is she excluded?  Why is his former wife more important than the woman he lives with? 

I wouldn't get all worked up over "kids" or "children" in quotes; I saw it as a way to show the children are grown and we are not talking about toddlers that don't understand why daddy doesn't live here anymore, and why is this new woman holding daddy's hand instead of mommy holding his hand.


Cali



It certainly looks to me when I read it that she expected to be priority over his children.  The fact of the matter is, she was already going to be alone with him Christmas Day, and that was not enough.  She was not excluded, she has her time, and the family has theirs.  Unless I missed something and they were going to invite them over on Christmas Day, or are the children being excluded?  I dont think it makes the former more important than the OP, I think it makes them more equal (each getting one holiday). 
 
On to the next thing:  I pointed out the quotations because it made it seem to me, that she was trying to point out that they were not young, therefore not as important, and I think that is bullshit.  When my kids are 40, they are going to be just as important to me as they are now at their young ages.  Everyone likes to see their family together at Christmas, no matter how old they are or if their parents are together or not.  For example, last year my wife and I seperated, she moved out in July, but she still spent last Christmas here for two days, because our children wanted her to.  Trust me, I was not as impressed, but Christmas is about family, and if they are together or not, they share children, grown or not.
 
I am not saying your opinion is wrong, just different from mine......




slaveluci -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:47:53 AM)

I have to agree with CalifChick on this one.  The "children" are all adults and should be able to handle it if Daddy and Mommy aren't side-by-side throughout the whole of the holiday including Mommy's birthday.  Don't they know they're divorced?  Haven't they come to terms with the fact that they may move on with other partners? 

Chiara says she and her master had already "planned" their Boxing Day together.  Then, apparently after his ex asked, he chucked those plans in favor of spending the day with her.  Is that his perogative?  Sure.  If it means that much more to him to spend it with an ex than with his current, that's his choice.  One would presume a full-grown, ethical man would realize, however, that in doing so it's going to cause hurt in his current partner.  (I know she's his "slave" not necessarily his "partner" but, for some of us, we are both).

"Master" or not, I think it's inappropriate to make plans with one person then suddenly chuck those away in favor of others without discussing it with the first person or trying to work out a compromise.  If it was established from the beginning of the relationship that things like that should be expected, that's fine.  But, it sounds like Chiara was not used to such behavior and is having trouble with it.  Surely he can understand why she would be.................luci




lusciouslips19 -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:48:32 AM)



You could ask him why cant the "kIds" come over to your house? Also, why is it important for the ex wife for him to be around the kids and her for her birthday? Is it possible that she is manipulating things in other areas? I think its good that the ex didnt ask for X-mas but he has an obligation to the kids, not to the wife. So he should be able to see the grown kids without seeing the ex wife even if its her birthday.
Asking of questions from a slave is to seek understanding, not to defy his will.




littlewonder -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 6:53:40 AM)

Why not ask if you can tag along? I mean if you two live together and you're in a relatoinship together why are you being excluded?

Sounds like you guys have some serious discussions to go through before you find later that he may still have feelings of intimacy or guilt towards the ex.





LaTigresse -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 7:01:43 AM)

Using fast reply..........

This thread is a perfect example of why it is so vital to communicate PRIOR to entering into a M/s relationship.

We have s types piping up with all sorts of replies that a slave in my house will A) already know where I stand, and B) would NEVER EVER dream of.

It's not so much a question of right and wrong, though a few s types will argue otherwise, but a difference in what being a slave means to the people involved.

It appears from the OP, these things were not discussed properly and now the people involved are going to pay the price.




came4U -> RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces (12/18/2008 7:03:25 AM)

If they have a 'family' get together the day after Xmas so let them.  Maybe she has her own family over for Xmas day and Boxing day is the only alternative. 

Just because it is over with them does not mean they should no longer be able to be in the same room and be civil, even for grown children who would appreciate the peace.

Christmas is for family, unless they hang out like this every other month let them be.

A race might seem important to you but a pleasant day with those you love (or used to love) is what Christmas is all about. Maybe next year and after you two are considered more 'stable' in your relationship (6 months isn't a long time, some don't even introduce parents to their gf until long after) you would be included.  The only way to be accepted in this way is to be mature and allow him his function without any grief.  Don't forget, he has known her obviously for 20 years or more, you 6 months-ish.  Who do you think has priority right now?




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