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Giving up contol - 12/20/2008 7:30:02 AM   
WalterRego


Posts: 276
Joined: 12/28/2004
Status: offline 		There is the voluntary giving up of control: obeying, holding a position, keeping silent doing something we may not like. And there is the involuntary giving up of control: bondage; being taken past limits.

Is one more satisfying than the other? Is one better  or more desireable (better for or to a submissive themself, not to the Master or Mistress?)  Do they ultimately take us to the same place?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Giving up contol - 12/20/2008 7:45:14 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		i hardly see where anything using opposites such as voluntary and involuntary will ultimately lead us to the same place, but that's just me.

(in reply to WalterRego)
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RE: Giving up contol - 12/20/2008 8:55:59 AM   
peppermint


Posts: 5169
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline 		I'm not sure what you mean by activities taking you to some place?  What place are you talking about....a mental state of some sort or an emotional state or a state of submissive or? 

All the activities you listed are all part of WIITWD.  I didn't know that each one had to be geared toward something inside the submissive.  We do a lot of that just because they are enjoyable and fun. 

(in reply to WalterRego)
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RE: Giving up contol - 12/20/2008 10:09:50 AM   
utopicus


Posts: 97
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Voluntarily giving up control is a measure of our submission and it gets refined with time and experience; control being taken away from us ultimately strengthens our submission - so the two of them have a synergetic effect. Whether they take us to the same place - what would that place might be?

(in reply to WalterRego)
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RE: Giving up contol - 12/20/2008 10:53:28 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		If it's all consensual, there's not much difference in the end.  Some people prefer the "involuntary" because it feels more forceful and they don't have to feel as responsible for it.  Some prefer the "voluntary" for exactly those same reasons.

Ultimately you're talking more about kink and active expressions of a dynamic, not the dynamic itself.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to utopicus)
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RE: Giving up contol - 12/20/2008 7:44:50 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I volunteer for bondage, always. In fact I need to go straighten out the rope bag.

For us, bondage is better. We both just get off on it. I actually hate mental bondage. If I'm worrying about not changing position, I'm not aroused. If I'm not aroused then I don't view any pain as erotic and it's all more than I can handle. Plus me worrying is not me giving him energy which he then feeds off of.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Giving up contol - 12/20/2008 9:49:00 PM   
greeneyedreamer


Posts: 442
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I actually hate mental bondage.


Funny how the dislikes of one are the love of another! I LOVE mental bondage. I actually just put me in that state by myself. My Dom loves it and smiles. He doesn't ever have to tell me anymore what he wants. I don't worry so much about 'moving' out of position, I just keep the approximate position.

Dreamer

_____________________________

Dreamer, owned and ecstatically happy

I am still learning... Michelangelo, age 87

Maybe some women weren't meant to be tamed. Maybe they are suppose to run wild until they find someone just as wild to run with. Sex and the City

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Giving up contol - 12/20/2008 10:22:40 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego

There is the voluntary giving up of control: obeying, holding a position, keeping silent doing something we may not like. And there is the involuntary giving up of control: bondage; being taken past limits.

Is one more satisfying than the other? Is one better  or more desireable (better for or to a submissive themself, not to the Master or Mistress?)  Do they ultimately take us to the same place?



All I do is voluntary. If he takes me past my limits it's because I've given him the control to ignore previously stated limits. I have no desire for someone who would truly do to me what I have stated as a limit as mine are few, far between, and there for very good reasons.

Val's point of view is that he doesn't want me to do things that are actually against my will. He values my voluntary submission and has no use for non-voluntary and therefore unwilling submission.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to WalterRego)
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RE: Giving up contol - 12/20/2008 11:07:43 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Whatever he and I do together is wonderfully satisfying, and neither restrained nor unrestrained gets a "better" vote from me.  As for being taken past limits, in all honesty my former owner pushed me through so many mental and emotional boundaries that the idea of intentionally (rather than naturally, as life occurs) pushing through more is no longer appealing to me at this time.  I don't want to be someone's conquest upon which he can plant his flag and proudly proclaim "Look what I brought her to do."  I did that, and while I enjoyed it and benefited from it, it exhausted me, too.  It's nice to just "be" and enjoy where and what I am with somebody.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to WalterRego)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Giving up contol - 12/21/2008 12:55:13 AM   
WalterRego


Posts: 276
Joined: 12/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Ultimately you're talking more about kink and active expressions of a dynamic, not the dynamic itself.


But a "dynamic" by definition. deals with the movement of energy, and the application of force or the channeling (or harnessing) of energy and force or power in certain directions. How can you have a "dynamic" without active expressions that it works through?

It would seem from the first part of your response, and the split of some liking one side and others liking the other, that they do both get us to the same place. And perhaps not just for subs, but for Dominants too.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Giving up contol - 12/21/2008 1:08:00 AM   
porcelain26


Posts: 181
Joined: 11/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego

There is the voluntary giving up of control: obeying, holding a position, keeping silent doing something we may not like. And there is the involuntary giving up of control: bondage; being taken past limits.

Is one more satisfying than the other? Is one better  or more desireable (better for or to a submissive themself, not to the Master or Mistress?)  Do they ultimately take us to the same place?



For me, they're both satisfying, though depending on my mood, sometimes I'd rather be 'forced'. I thoroughly enjoy being obedient and pleasing the dominant I'm serving; it makes me tingle in all the right places. But there is definately another kind of 'bliss' to be found when that same dominant, so happy with my obedience, pushes the envelope and takes up the slack in my proverbial leash (or literal leash, whichever).

I often find that being pushed puts me into a much different head space than simply being obedient. I'm much more submissive, much more compliant, and much more uninhibited. So for me, no, these paths don't lead to the same destination. Though I don't believe I could let someone take that kind of control without first submitting my own to them in the way you described at first. So I guess in a lot of ways, I need to be obedient first, and pushed second? Not sure if I'm making any sense, here...I'm more than a little sleep deprived.

(in reply to WalterRego)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Giving up contol - 12/21/2008 4:04:55 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		I will agree with Aquaticsub.  To be in a dynamic where bondage is a shared kink and then how would it be involuntary transfer of control when I look forward to hard bondage?  But whether He chooses to use all the ropes, cuffs, hood, respirator, shackles, bars and chains or simply the "hands behind back!" command, the control is always His.  I begged for this collar so I volunteered to give up control.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to WalterRego)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Giving up contol - 12/21/2008 5:05:41 AM   
swan70


Posts: 47
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline 		One is not "better" than the other--but there are times that i prefer bondage. 

One--i just like it.  i like the feel of the rope or the cuffs or the chain against my skin.  It puts me into sub space a little faster.  Two--i like bondage when i might get hurt without it.  If  Master is using the switch on me...i'd rather be bound to be SURE i keep my hands out of the way. 

Now--i view the "voluntary" things listed as just obedience and servitude.  They don't put me in sub space--but i enjoy them because they are a way of showing respect to my Master.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Giving up contol - 12/21/2008 5:07:59 AM   
Vanessacherry


Posts: 18
Joined: 12/13/2008
Status: offline 		The first are very sexual for me.  The others feel less so.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Giving up contol - 12/21/2008 10:24:03 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego
But a "dynamic" by definition. deals with the movement of energy, and the application of force or the channeling (or harnessing) of energy and force or power in certain directions. How can you have a "dynamic" without active expressions that it works through?

Energy does not equate to physical expressions.  There are many forms in which a dynamic exists other than the physical, at least for me.
quote:


It would seem from the first part of your response, and the split of some liking one side and others liking the other, that they do both get us to the same place. And perhaps not just for subs, but for Dominants too.

We are complicated fucked up beings for sure :)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to WalterRego)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Giving up contol - 12/21/2008 5:09:20 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I give up my control in both ways to Master. Neither is better or worse. They are both just part and parcel of who we are.

He leads, I follow and we get there through many different avenues.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Giving up contol - 12/21/2008 5:20:54 PM   
bound4more


Posts: 128
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego

There is the voluntary giving up of control: obeying, holding a position, keeping silent doing something we may not like. And there is the involuntary giving up of control: bondage; being taken past limits.

Is one more satisfying than the other? Is one better  or more desireable (better for or to a submissive themself, not to the Master or Mistress?)  Do they ultimately take us to the same place?



In my relationship there is no involuntary anything. Regardless of whether I find myself physically in a position of no control or not, the fact is I agreed to obey, I agreed to submit to His wishes. That is the place I live in, with or without a seeming loss or sense of control. It's called consentual non-consent - which only means He doesn't have to keep asking - is this okay?

_____________________________

You can tell who someone really is by how they act

(in reply to WalterRego)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Giving up contol - 12/23/2008 11:32:19 PM   
lilpet143


Posts: 2
Joined: 9/16/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelain26

quote:

ORIGINAL: WalterRego

There is the voluntary giving up of control: obeying, holding a position, keeping silent doing something we may not like. And there is the involuntary giving up of control: bondage; being taken past limits.

Is one more satisfying than the other? Is one better  or more desireable (better for or to a submissive themself, not to the Master or Mistress?)  Do they ultimately take us to the same place?



For me, they're both satisfying, though depending on my mood, sometimes I'd rather be 'forced'. I thoroughly enjoy being obedient and pleasing the dominant I'm serving; it makes me tingle in all the right places. But there is definately another kind of 'bliss' to be found when that same dominant, so happy with my obedience, pushes the envelope and takes up the slack in my proverbial leash (or literal leash, whichever).

I often find that being pushed puts me into a much different head space than simply being obedient. I'm much more submissive, much more compliant, and much more uninhibited. So for me, no, these paths don't lead to the same destination. Though I don't believe I could let someone take that kind of control without first submitting my own to them in the way you described at first. So I guess in a lot of ways, I need to be obedient first, and pushed second? Not sure if I'm making any sense, here...I'm more than a little sleep deprived.



I agree w porcelain.

pet

(in reply to porcelain26)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Giving up contol - 12/24/2008 7:54:49 AM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		I also have to agree with porcelin, that it depends on the mood that I'm in as to which is more satisfying. There is also that sort of "immediate" sense of satisifaction one gets while obeying versus the "delayed" feeling of satisfiaction one can get after a session of being pushed to obey. They are both wonderful, but the most long lasting one for me, since my husband and I aren't in a 24/7, is being pushed - BUT in order to get there we have to work on me getting into that obedient headspace first.

(in reply to lilpet143)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Giving up contol - 12/24/2008 8:17:23 AM   
WalterRego


Posts: 276
Joined: 12/28/2004
Status: offline 		I think maybe you've hit on it, porcelain. Being obedient and pleasing is a very  happy, satisfying and warm feeling. Whereas being forced is a hot electrfying one.


(in reply to porcelain26)
Profile   Post #: 20
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