RE: slaves ability to leave (Full Version)

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bdaile -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/28/2008 6:51:05 PM)

If I am happy with my relationship then I will stay, whether others think that relationship is "good" or not. However, if I am no longer happy, I can and will leave. This goes for any relationship I have. And yes, it is a lot easier to type the words than to live them, but I've done it once and will again if the need arises. I spent almost four years with a man that gave me everything I wanted--except love and respect. That is a situation I will not allow myself to be in again. No matter what.



fyreredsub -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/28/2008 6:57:07 PM)

greetings,

when he took the time to master me i did very well and was happy in  His chains

i loved my owner with all of my heart and never felt kneeling before anyone as I did Him but through  time and miles a chasm developed tween me and His household.

i whined,pleaded and was bad on purpose when being pleasing still kept the 'chains' too loose and i didnt know how to stop myself from fumbling and mucking about any more.

knowing that you are becoming displeasing and trying to manipulate to feel mastery is no way to live, and it is most disrespectful to Master,nor is feeling like a failure as a slave while still in chains.

i still loved him very much when i left him but i couldnt stay in the situation any longer as it was causing me health   and emotional  ( past abandonment issues) trouble and my self survival outweighed the love.

love is often times, in my mind, equated with nilla relationships- i needed to feel owned.

loving someone will not stop me from self-determination of what's best for my life,however, a man's determination to own me will keep me on my knees.

( i cant speak for anyone else's feeling of love vs mastery in staying power.)

i learned is that there is a difference in just being owned and in being mastered.

as well as how divided the gorean community is on self-release per free mans advice/runaway/and several different protocols  in regards  the 'taking back of one's freedom',of what onliners that i dont know, say i can or cant do with my life when i have my autonomy back,lol.

be well
Fyre

quote:

ORIGINAL: AmbrosialWench


fyreredsub, thank you also for your story also. I do not know if you loved your Master but where not satisfied with the lack of mental slavery. Do you think that love is the outweighing factor which would keep a slave from leaving their Master?




AmbrosialWench -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/28/2008 7:07:11 PM)

Fyreredsub, I hope you have found happiness and those in the Gorean community have gotten over your need to leave. Thank you. 



mbes -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/28/2008 10:29:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLadySue

Slavery is illegal. Period! A Master/slave or Mistress/slave relationship is just that, a relationship. Both people agree to be part of it as long as they are happy and fulfilled within that relationship. Either is free to walk at any time, whether it's Gorean or otherwise.

If a relationship was committed to with that as the exit, then yes, it is entirely "fair" to walk away at the first sign of unhappiness or being unfufilled.
If the committment was made "til death do us part", I wouldn't consider the reasons given as "fair" for walking away.
It all comes down to the people involved, and what they are and aren't capable of living with.



thishereboi -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/29/2008 4:49:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BondageBarbieX

Ok, Gor is based on a work of fiction and should not be taken seriously as a D's code of  living or ethics.I have no use for Gor Masters and find it utterly ridiculous as a concept.
You can leave whenever you want if you have a crappy Dominant.


Where did I mention Gor in my post?



DesFIP -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/29/2008 6:16:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mbes


If a relationship was committed to with that as the exit, then yes, it is entirely "fair" to walk away at the first sign of unhappiness or being unfufilled.
If the committment was made "til death do us part", I wouldn't consider the reasons given as "fair" for walking away.
It all comes down to the people involved, and what they are and aren't capable of living with.



Whether you happen to consider something fair or not does not change the legality of it. And even if you think someone else is being unfair by walking, that doesn't mean they have to pay your opinion any notice.

People define for themselves what they must have in a relationship. Hopefully they express ahead of time what it is, but sometimes you only discover by not getting something that you cannot live without it. The fact that you didn't know beforehand doesn't change the fact that you still need it. And that you cannot and will not remain in a relationship where you will not get your needs met.

If you want someone to be a good slave, then you must be a good master for that person.



clearlightblack -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/29/2008 11:37:57 AM)

In my previous M/s relationship (which was also my first), there were tons of times i was unhappy about certain things, didn't make me want to leave.

I found it hard to walk away, but necessary for my well-being.  For the first 6-8 months that wasn't so. I thought it was suppose to be all about his happiness, but how could I serve someone I hated? And there came a time when I was so unhappy, it negatively effected every part of my life, even work and home life.  I asked for my release and He refused only so that we could try and work things out.  Sadly, it never worked, but at least we took the time to do it, and now i am healing and figuring out things again.

So you can walk away, He has no right to make you unhappy especially when he isn't living up to his side of it.





susie -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/29/2008 1:22:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mbes


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsLadySue

Slavery is illegal. Period! A Master/slave or Mistress/slave relationship is just that, a relationship. Both people agree to be part of it as long as they are happy and fulfilled within that relationship. Either is free to walk at any time, whether it's Gorean or otherwise.

If a relationship was committed to with that as the exit, then yes, it is entirely "fair" to walk away at the first sign of unhappiness or being unfufilled.
If the committment was made "til death do us part", I wouldn't consider the reasons given as "fair" for walking away.
It all comes down to the people involved, and what they are and aren't capable of living with.



A whole lot of people commit to stay in a relationship "til death do us part" but I see one whole lot of divorces going on.

We only get one chance at life and the idea that someone should stay in a relationship that is not happy or does not fulfill both parties just because one is submissive is clearly ridiculous.



mbes -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/29/2008 2:44:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Whether you happen to consider something fair or not does not change the legality of it. And even if you think someone else is being unfair by walking, that doesn't mean they have to pay your opinion any notice.

Certainly not, that's why the "fair" is in quotes. I don't pay that much mind to what others think of my decisions, either, beyond one person.
There is a difference between legal and right, also. I read the original question as one of right or wrong, not legal or illegal, but I haven't gone back to see if I'm remembering it correctly. It's entirely possible my mind put its own spin on it.
My point was simply that the level of commitment should (in my opinion, of course) be taken into account, both for one's own sake, and the sake of the other party/ies involved. I consider that applying to both/any/all sides of whatever slashes are involved, by the way, not just the sub-side.



SimplyIsaac -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/29/2008 4:23:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AmbrosialWench
Abused women cannot muster the power to walk and I would pressume the M/s and gorean community would not see the man as being a Master.



In other words: nudge, nudge, you Gorean men better do some PC somersaults to explain away this myth that offends me so!

Men and woman walk away from M&s all the time. Some don't of course. Some actually end up owning what they say they are instead of reaching for the "undo" option. Few and far between, but still.

I'm no expert of Gor...but the type of ownership talked about in that epic sexist wet dream by Norman is...pretty literal and in-depth. I mean, woman are beasts to be owned?

That pretty much says it all...so stop trying to get us all on planet no way, we're really shiny happy people and you've been misinformed!
God, the internet would suck if everybody suddenly got so PC.



BondageBarbieX -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/29/2008 6:01:51 PM)

thishereboi I have no idea or clue who the hell you are or what you are referring to.It automatically adds the in reply to thing to your post and uses the poster that last posted.I was not referring to you .[8|] But I stand by my post nevertheless.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/29/2008 6:47:09 PM)

So that most do not get confused on whether you are refering to them or not, most people add ~FR~ or something similar to the top of their post. This prevents someone from mistaking that you are replying to what they said, and lets us know that you are using fast reply.



mummyman321 -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/29/2008 7:56:40 PM)

It takes two to tango.

This isn't college and Animal house days with 'Thank you sir may I have another". No no...grownup can and do make their own decisions.



MastersPanda -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/29/2008 8:24:42 PM)

Amen.



BondageBarbieX -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/30/2008 1:07:10 AM)

Thanks OrionTheWolf and I found the' reply ' button and have been using it since and I am sorry I was crass in my last comment.I apologize.. See,i used it for you..who says blondes are dumb![:D]



NuevaVida -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/30/2008 6:45:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mbes
ment should (in my opinion, of course) be taken into account, both for one's own sake, and the sake of the other party/ies involved. I consider that applying to both/any/all sides of whatever slashes are involved, by the way, not just the sub-side.



I recently had a conversation with someone regarding commitmernts in relationships.  My whole way of thinking has changed, and I think it's because twice I stayed too long BECAUSE of the commitment.  So I said to the man last night - Just what are people committing to, anyway?  If I were to say "I'll be yours forever" or "I'll love you forever" it's a lie, because I really don't know what the future will hold, and if I'll still love him or if I'll still want to be with him.  I can commit to serving someone for as long as it is healthy to do so, and I can commit to certain behaviors discussed in advance...but committing to "forever" is no longer in my vocabulary.  Committing to be with someone for as long as it makes sense...well that I can handle!!



needlesplease -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/30/2008 11:45:14 PM)

quote:

". The slave of a Gorean man is only able to walk away if she isn't being adequately mastered. If she is, then it doesn't matter so much whether he is a total ass or an utter saint, a paragon of virtue or a cad. She's owned, she's his, and truly isn't capable of mustering the power to walk."


Having been in an abusive relationship many years ago, I can tell you that the man in question never saw fault with his acts of mastering. Who is to judge the merit of the Master? Outsiders rarely see the real damages and assaults.. I ended up in hospital from his efforts.

I walked away and have never, to this day had a physically abusive relationship since. But I've had plenty of beatings...



MRandme -> RE: slaves ability to leave (12/31/2008 4:14:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I recently had a conversation with someone regarding commitmernts in relationships.  My whole way of thinking has changed, and I think it's because twice I stayed too long BECAUSE of the commitment.  So I said to the man last night - Just what are people committing to, anyway?  If I were to say "I'll be yours forever" or "I'll love you forever" it's a lie, because I really don't know what the future will hold, and if I'll still love him or if I'll still want to be with him.  I can commit to serving someone for as long as it is healthy to do so, and I can commit to certain behaviors discussed in advance...but committing to "forever" is no longer in my vocabulary.  Committing to be with someone for as long as it makes sense...well that I can handle!!



This is exactly what i meant... it was the reason i had a panic attack this last weekend about being Collared. It would be hard to walk away now --- once He places that Collar around my neck, it would be impossible unless He bacame abusive, which isn't in Him. So i could theoretically end up unahppy because my needs were not being met, yet stay.

my solution was simple. i asked Him to promise that if He decided that i was unhappy, He would release me and make me go.

Forever... that is for young lovers. i committed to be with Him 'for the long haul' and told Him that i can see myself with Him for many years to come. People, lives, relationships all change, so how can anyone say 'forever'?

g



MasterFireMaam -> RE: slaves ability to leave (2/22/2009 8:31:07 AM)

I believe there are ideals that we strive for in these relationships and there are conditions that we want, as an end result. However, you must understand that these are END RESULTS and not how you'd start the relationship. For example, the end result might be the desire for the slave to not be psychologically capable of leaving. But, I know of no relationship that's healthy that starts OUT that way. Too much is not understood about the people and their psychology for it to be such.

Master Fire



serisa -> RE: slaves ability to leave (2/22/2009 4:56:51 PM)

Some may not agree i know but i believe it is untrue that a slave cannot walk and leave Master, just because Master says one can not. You are free to go should you so wish and nonone can legally try and stop you.  Whatever reaction this gets from Masters out there, no one can deny that as far as the law goes (in earth not Gor!) this is true.  However, in my opinion slavery and your ability to walk away is in the mind and your mind is a powerful thing.  i think it is your mind, heart and soul that should enslave you to your Master not a contract or Masters refusal to release you - if your heart belonged to Him, then you would not be even physically capable of walking away from Him.  I think if you have a good Master and you speak to Him should you be unhappy, He should try and fix it best He can... or let you go.  There may be some out there i know... but i think a true Master would not find pleasure in a slave who did not find pleasure herself in pleasing Him



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