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Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/28/2008 1:32:18 PM

MadamBell

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Hello, I am Madam Bell and I have a question for the subs. Is it true that for you it is mentally intoxicating and not needed to do big changes in the actvities during a session but actually more change is need in the mental state and how far you are pushed? Second, do you think a Domme is less Domme is she is sensual and strick- but sensual none the less? Thanks in advance for any answers I may get. Madam Bell

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Madam Bell

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/28/2008 1:46:14 PM

utopicus

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You may like to rephrase, please...
Always mind training prevails, however those changes of activities in sessions stimulate and enhance the mind.
BDSM is first and foremost an intimate experience wherein sensuality plays a definite role. Strictness is inherent with a real Dominant and should not obscure sensuality.

(in reply to MadamBell)

Post #: 2

RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/28/2008 2:57:26 PM

PaleDecembre

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Joined: 12/24/2008
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I have only been with one thusfar (Dom not Domme), but I vote sensual. Pleasure, pain, and stillness. Maybe not in that order, but the balance thereof. Personally, this keeps me "present".

(in reply to MadamBell)

Post #: 3

RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/28/2008 6:49:52 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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Could you clarify? What is mentally intoxicating? And what result are you trying to achieve by changing the mental state? And what exactly are you changing or attempting to change in their mental state?

As far as whether or not subs like sensual activities instead of pain - some do and some don't. Some do sometimes but not other times. Ask the sub in question.

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Slave to laundry

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(in reply to PaleDecembre)

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/28/2008 8:49:48 PM

GoodFeathers

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Are you referring to subspace?

If so, then I have to say it's different for every sub. Some get there through pain, others through pleasure, and others through a combination of the two. Some just need to be trussed up and left to meditate for a bit. It depends on the sub, as such I suggest discussing it with the subbie in question to see what works for them.

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"The more I learn, the more I realize I haven't learned enough."

(in reply to DesFIP)

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/28/2008 8:55:16 PM

CalifChick

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I'm confused... what's the question?

Cali

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/28/2008 9:17:22 PM

femmetasia

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it matters not if the mind is not engaged

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 5:12:01 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: femmetasia

it matters not if the mind is not engaged

I disagree. One of the things I prize wiitwd for is the fact that during it I get to turn off my mind, stop thinking and just feel. I find it very freeing to just respond without having to think over my responses. One of the reasons I prefer bondage is that I don't have to think about staying in position, instead I can jerk about, allow my instincts to take over and I stay where I am because of the ropes, not because of my mind overriding my instincts.

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Slave to laundry

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(in reply to femmetasia)

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 5:23:35 AM

MadamBell

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Thank you all for the input- common thing I am seeing is "ask the subbie" - as a domme I would think that if I ask them then they are being given some control over what happens in the session- that is not what I am going for- also I am very strick but I am trying to not loose sensuality.

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Madam Bell

(in reply to DesFIP)

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 6:07:36 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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You are mistaken if you think getting information means giving over control. If your goal is to get someone into subspace, then you need to know what that particular person needs to get there. Because if you assume that as your last sub needed pain therefore this one does also, and the truth of the matter is that this one needs sensory deprivation that you will be frustrated when the sub never reaches subspace but instead reds out from too much pain.

Honestly, I would run a mile if a prospective dominant announced he didn't want to know anything about me.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to MadamBell)

Post #: 10

RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 7:12:02 AM

mandyjean

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You talk about changes in a session. If every one starts to be close to identical the sub will get bored. At least change up the order or alter positions slightly. This will make it more exciting for both of you, and an excited sub will do almost anything to be pleasing.

Being both strict and sensual can be very intoxicating for both parties. Part of sensuality is knowing what really turns your partner on. It is not uncommon for a Dom/me to ask his or her sub about their fantasies, things that they have never tried but would like to, or to hear about the things that they have enjoyed most from previous sessions. The understanding is that it is up to the Dom/me to decide whether to grant the favor. If you only assume that you know what is best for them but never get their input then it makes you a less effective Domme. (I have been both Domme and slave. I know that granting my subs special favors as a surprise went a long way in growing their trust and delight in me. As a slave, when my Master remembers something that I have previously mentioned and incorporates it into a session I feel like I am in seventh heaven.) Neither is a case of topping from the bottom but simply letting the sub know that they have importance.

(in reply to DesFIP)

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 7:34:46 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

-as a domme I would think that if I ask them then they are being given some control over what happens in the session-

whoever said that subs don't or shouldn't have some control over what happens in the session?

for this slave, it's one of the differences between being a "sub" and being a "slave". if this slave was Master's "sub", she would have retained a negotiated amount of control with regards to her life, as well as who and how she will have sex (and/or sessions) with.

as Master's slave, she has retained control of nothing.

those who choose to submit, in the context of a session or D/s relationship are often encouraged to come into it with hard limits/soft limits/safewords and negotiate "sessions" to their specifications with people that they have taken the time to determine are trustworthy. folks often report that this is healthy for them.

please don't assume that you are un-domme-ly because the sub has some control over the session/relationship or that subs don't expect to have any control over what happens to them.

all of the ones this slave has ever met very much do.

(in reply to MadamBell)

Post #: 12

RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 1:16:25 PM

MadamBell

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Joined: 12/28/2008
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So you guys are saying that I wont seem less Domme just becasue I ask for some input on what happens in the session. I always ask them what they like and what they are into before we start the first time. The next times i usually dont- so this must be my down fall? I should ask every time what they would like to do and then pick a few of them and maybe do it? I have most of my sessions with no open dialect, i did however do one this morning that was restricted opened dialect and that was different.

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Madam Bell

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 13

RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 2:52:29 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

So you guys are saying that I wont seem less Domme just becasue I ask for some input on what happens in the session.

to some folks, it would be a dream come true. every sub this slave has ever met REQUIRES they have input on what happens or doesn't happen in the session---or the session doesn't happen.

quote:

... I always ask them what they like and what they are into before we start the first time. The next times i usually dont- so this must be my down fall?

this slave doesn't know what you mean when you say "my down fall", could you be more specific?

quote:

...I should ask every time what they would like to do and then pick a few of them and maybe do it? I have most of my sessions with no open dialect, i did however do one this morning that was restricted opened dialect and that was different...

this slave can't tell you what you should do, just that you should, indeed, expect subs to give input and set parameters on sessions or relationships they enter into with you.

(in reply to MadamBell)

Post #: 14

RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 7:04:07 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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So talk to them after a session and ask what they liked most, what they disliked and had the most trouble with, what would have caused them to safeword if you had continued. You need to have ongoing communication including what they would like to do at some point. It doesn't have to be you asking them what they want today, but you can do so upon occasion. What you do need is to know what is and isn't working for them. Talk to them before, during and afterwards if that works for you.

Personally I like to deconstruct play the next day after I've had time to think about what was happening, what I wanted more of at the time but now realize I probably would have regretted, etc. Right afterwards I have a tendency to want more even when I physically can't take any more.

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Slave to laundry

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 7:04:28 PM

Begsnice

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Joined: 12/31/2005
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For me its all about the mind set. If im not in the right state of mind i cant submit.

begsnice

(in reply to MadamBell)

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 7:27:01 PM

marie2

Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
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I identify as a submissive. And the last thing I want is control over a session. I've never asked for it, expected it, or had it. The only thing I want is for the dominant to get to know my brain first, so as not to do something that would be potentially damaging.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the slavier than thou non-sense that slaves don't want a say and subs REQUIRE it.

My suggestion would be to get to know the person you're going to dominate, and don't go into it with any assumptions based on the whether they identify as "slave" or "sub". As far as I'm concerned that's as dangerous as it gets. There's no substitute for talking with the person and getting to know them; their desires, their fears, etc etc. Then you can feel them out and decide how much, how far etc etc.

(in reply to MadamBell)

Post #: 17

RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 7:29:23 PM

GoodFeathers

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Joined: 11/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadamBell

So you guys are saying that I wont seem less Domme just becasue I ask for some input on what happens in the session.

No, you will not seem less Domme. I prefer it when a Dom asks me what works for me and what doesn't. If you don't get to know the sub, then you don't know what will or will not work for them, more over, the gathering of information from them, if anything, makes you appear more responsible.

quote:

I always ask them what they like and what they are into before we start the first time. The next times i usually dont- so this must be my down fall?

It may be, it may not be.

quote:

I should ask every time what they would like to do and then pick a few of them and maybe do it? I have most of my sessions with no open dialect, i did however do one this morning that was restricted opened dialect and that was different.

Not every single time, no. But having no conversation at all after having played just once with a dom would have me leaving and not coming back. It shows a certain amout of disrespect for the sub as well as arrogance on the part of the dom. How do they know what was done well and what wasn't done well if they receive no feedback? Personally, I'm partial to chatter before the start of a session or shortly after to help inform due to having had experience with a dom that asked no questions concerning my feelings. It's not because he didn't want to know, he was just arrogant and didn't want to seem as though he didn't know what he was doing. The less he asked, the more those two points became apparent.

Restricted discussion is one thing. No talk is for play and play alone. If you can't communicate, then how will you Domme effectively? Communication, they say, is the foundation of a good relationship. Any relationship. It would do well for you to communicate what works for you to a sub, but to also nurture them to communicate before and after a scene--especially when you are just getting to know one another's playing styles.

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"The more I learn, the more I realize I haven't learned enough."

(in reply to MadamBell)

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 7:53:52 PM

loveandlight87

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Joined: 2/27/2008
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For me there is a difference between asking what the sub wants to have happen during a session (i.e. scripting the session) and learning about that sub in general. The first seems to me more of either a casual play/dungeon scene or a pro scene.

But for even a short term relationship, getting in the subs head to find out what is making them tick is where, in my own humble opinion, a lot of the D's power comes from. If the D has taken time to really find out the likes and dislikes and the WHY of the likes and dislikes, as well as a host of other specific quirks of the sub, then that gives the D some serious power over that sub. As a D you can use this knowledge to get all sorts of things out of the sub - say a deeper level of submission, limits pushed farther, more of what the D wants, etc.

Just because you are finding out about them, does not mean you have to use the information as a script for your scene. You get to decide what to do with the information. But having the information seems to be critical to developing a relationship.

Also, for me, sensual is GOOD!!

love

(in reply to GoodFeathers)

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RE: Is it mostly mind or matter? - 12/29/2008 8:04:57 PM

mummyman321

Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadamBell

Hello, I am Madam Bell and I have a question for the subs. Is it true that for you it is mentally intoxicating and not needed to do big changes in the actvities during a session but actually more change is need in the mental state and how far you are pushed? Second, do you think a Domme is less Domme is she is sensual and strick- but sensual none the less? Thanks in advance for any answers I may get. Madam Bell

The mental aspect is very important to me. When I get into my sub space it is a very mental place. But the physical and mental are linked. Physical sensation plays into the mental aspects. IE: a blindfold robs the sub of his sight. This increases the awareness of hearing and touch sensation. A warm butter knife on the sub skin along with warm water and your voice saying the blood is lovely creates a mental image in the subs mind.

You can control the mind, but it take both physical and mental aspects to do so.

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Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

(in reply to MadamBell)

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