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RE: Is it a disciplinary matter if a servant capitalise... - 12/29/2008 3:13:07 PM   
kiwisub12


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Is it a disciplinary matter if a servant capitalizes his name in communications with you


It is how beth lost her pinkie finger above the first knuckle. Bitch learned that lesson early!  (Fortunately nobody notices her hands in any of the pictures.



sooooo     .............................was that the left hand or the right hand?   It matters you know.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/29/2008 3:14:46 PM   
beltainefaerie


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Master does not care for me to warp the rules of English grammar to make him seem important.  He continues to be important whether or not I capitalize everything related to him, and whether or not I choose to capitalize the names, titles and pronouns of other dominants.  I do tend to use lowercase when signing "bel", but lowercase "i" just looks stupid and wrong.  Writing in third person would also never work for me.  I think that there is only one reason for the weird capitalization and punctuation rules: some people who have a hard time staying in a submissive mindset appreciate having little rules and routines to remind them of their place.  Since that isn't an issue for me and he appreciates proper English, Master prefers that I use regular grammar, spelling and punctuation.

(in reply to utopicus)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Is it a disciplinary matter if a servant capitalise... - 12/29/2008 3:39:31 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Is it a disciplinary matter if a servant capitalizes his name in communications with you


It is how beth lost her pinkie finger above the first knuckle. Bitch learned that lesson early!  (Fortunately nobody notices her hands in any of the pictures.


Whew, just when you think no one follows protocol anymore.  Thank G/g od for the two of you!



_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/29/2008 3:40:42 PM   
MmeGigs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Personally old boy, I detest the W/we U/us style it just  gets to be a right royal pain in the anal sphincter. 


In many venues, the D/dual C/capitalization stuff will get you labeled as an online wanker right off.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/29/2008 3:40:45 PM   
Usako


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quote:

ORIGINAL: beltainefaerie

He continues to be important whether or not I capitalize everything related to him...


I like that line a lot, it's so true. I would be utterly turned off by someone who needed or thought grammatically incorrect capitalization made them important or more important.

(in reply to beltainefaerie)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/29/2008 6:37:19 PM   
bdaile


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I have to agree with (almost) everyone else. While I will do it if requested to by someone I like, it irks me to no end. I'm too much of a nerd to be okay with screwing up the laws of english. It's just not right!

_____________________________

~brittany~

(in reply to Usako)
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RE: Is it a disciplinary matter if a servant capitalise... - 12/29/2008 6:48:29 PM   
FetishRose


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Coming from the girl who is notorious for getting kicked out of chatrooms for refusing to capitalize the dominant types and lowercase the submissive types....I obviously think the whole thing is rather idiotic.  I am no less submissive because I capitalize my pronoun, nor is it an offense to a dominant if I do not capitalize theirs.
Honestly, I try to use normal, proper rules of capitalization.  However, if I am typing very quickly, or just sending off a cute little note, everything is in lower case, due to speed.

(in reply to kiwisub12)
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RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/29/2008 7:13:58 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

To Online and Other Dommes, do you think its a breach of discipline if a servant capitalises his name, do you insist on your servant writing his name in small letters and addressing You in large letters or is it a load of rubbish
kevin



I couldn't care less about online protocol.   I don't need a captial letter to let me know who I am.
 
For those who enjoy it, great!  Whatever floats your boat.  If you have been ordered to do it, there's a reason, no matter what it is, that's what your dominant wants, do it.

And beth, well, you're still damned hot with or without the pinky, but please don't lose another one. 

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to lobodomslavery)
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RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/29/2008 7:15:50 PM   
BondageBarbieX


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I used to do the capital thing when one Dom enjoyed typing protocol but I do not do it anymore.Honestly,it's kind of lame.

(in reply to utopicus)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/30/2008 5:36:40 AM   
JustDarkness


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I think people misunderstood the use of the capitals. It is just to show who is who..nothing more nothing less.
From the nick name itself you can't see who is dom or sub..so they made a difference between D and s. That made things a lott eassier online to recoqnize.
BEsides that there were things like D{s} meaning D owns s.
It wasn't a respect ..just an idication of what and who you are.

If no one in their profiles had mentioned..sub/slave/gay/hetero..it would be a mess too.

(in reply to BondageBarbieX)
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RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/30/2008 5:59:01 AM   
LadyPact


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I have to say this first.  Tress, I like you more and more all of the time.

The caps thing, I've made My position on it clear time and time again.  I use it.  I tell My boy to use it.  If it's not liked, I'm ok with that.  The way I figure it, I'm in charge of this dynamic.  Not any of you. 

Skip the post if you like.  If a capitol "M" or a small "i" is going to bother you that much, than so be it.  Today, when My boy kneels at My feet, wears My collar, or any other thing, I didn't ask any of you to make the rules.  That happens to be My job.  I'll do it as I see fit.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to JustDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/30/2008 6:00:37 AM   
lobodomslavery


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Your not the only one Lady Pact, Tress rocks my world . She like s me too
kevin

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/30/2008 6:10:34 AM   
StrangerThan


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Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I have to say this first.  Tress, I like you more and more all of the time.

The caps thing, I've made My position on it clear time and time again.  I use it.  I tell My boy to use it.  If it's not liked, I'm ok with that.  The way I figure it, I'm in charge of this dynamic.  Not any of you. 

Skip the post if you like.  If a capitol "M" or a small "i" is going to bother you that much, than so be it.  Today, when My boy kneels at My feet, wears My collar, or any other thing, I didn't ask any of you to make the rules.  That happens to be My job.  I'll do it as I see fit.



I think this is the thing lob just can't seem to understand as he seems to often ask cut and dried type questions over things that aren't cut and dried. D/s is as variable as the people involved. What one does may or may not have any value whatsoever for anyone else. There is no set of rules by which one is defined as "true" or not when it comes to kink. It is what it is and what it is varies from person to person. Some like the caps and lowers. Some don't. It's never made much of a difference to me. The W/we stuff does make a difference though and mostly because it's irritating to read.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/30/2008 6:18:21 AM   
lobodomslavery


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Hi Stranger Than , i  hope your having a good day. as you can see i a m a fan of the lower case laughs. My point in raising this was not to try and get everyone to agree with me. No that would be so infantile and childish. i quite grasp that people are going to have different views. i just wanted to see how people felt about it and so far i am impressed. i have no angle on this at all ,im just acting as a facilitator for conversation nothing more. im neither out to want others to agree with me or out to condemn others. as far as im concerned every view is equal. im only here for conversation nothing more
kevin

(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/30/2008 7:13:01 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

I think people misunderstood the use of the capitals. It is just to show who is who..nothing more nothing less.
From the nick name itself you can't see who is dom or sub..so they made a difference between D and s. That made things a lott eassier online to recoqnize.
BEsides that there were things like D{s} meaning D owns s.
It wasn't a respect ..just an idication of what and who you are.

If no one in their profiles had mentioned..sub/slave/gay/hetero..it would be a mess too.



In this respect, I agree that in those days when I was frequenting kink chats as well as Gorean ones it made life easier to know who you were talking to and their status. For this reason I like tags so you know who is collared and to whom. What used to make my toenails curl was those who used foreign characters in their name and especially if they came up as squares because I didn't have their script (rare that because I do have an overload of fonts).

The one thing I continue to do is to use the caps on name which the poster/sender uses. If a slave uses lower case in her name I will, out of respect for both her Owner and the protocol he or she expects or is trained in. For me to deliberately capitalize all names irrespective if the recipient uses them or not would be a gross display of bad manners, disrespect and ignorance. I apply this to me alone with a recognition that others will not see things as I do.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to JustDarkness)
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RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/30/2008 8:11:25 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
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For me personally, I prefer proper use of capitalization and it would likely cause problems if I were with someone who required the use of lowercase for sub and uppercase for doms. It is very ingrained in me to use it correctly and it just feels wrong when I have attempted in the past to use the upper/lowercase distinction. For those into it, more power to ya and whatever floats your boat.....it's just not right for me and not me, but then it's about what makes individuals happy not the bdsm "community".

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/30/2008 10:41:36 AM   
Decadentpleasure


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As some have stated earlier, the improper use of capitalization can be irritating..for both the reader and the user (especially when confronted with negativity).  We're all educated people and mangling the English language in this manner must really frost the cookies of all English majors.  However, its also been said that the choice for a Dominant's property to do so is exactly that..the Dominant's choice. 

i'm college educated, top 6% in the country for LSATs and choose to use lower case when speaking of myself in relation to my Master or to others.  He doesn't require it, but has given me permission to type in this manner.  Its a mindset.  He is my Master, i am His slave. nuff said. 

i know that many look down upon the caps issue, often denegrating and delegating its usage and the users to not being 'truly' lifestyle, instead 'playing' lifestyle.  i offer another side of that multi-faceted coin:  when Master and i first began, Master was serving in Iraq for 15months so all We had was online and phone calls.  We had nothing else available at the time, but an online relationship (not perfect, but We made it work).  Our usage of caps was a way for me to display my submission to Him in a situation that didn't allow for in-person submission.  To judge one's personal choices,  without fully knowing the why's and wherefore's is complete idiocy.  We as a community get judged enough from the nillers.

This debate has been going on for as long as i can remember and when it comes down to nuts and bolts, its still the preference of the Dominant.  Whenever i hear of another debate being conducted, i have to offer this bit of well written and researched information entitled,

'The Historic Use of Capitalization'

Many people are introduced to the Lifestyle via electronic media such as chat rooms, message boards, mailing lists, and so on. Because these venues are based on written communication it is common for people who are new to the lifestyle to come across writing customs they are unfamiliar with. These customs may include the use of third-person speech by submissives, capitalizing the pronouns related to Dominants (He, She), and lowercasing a submissive's name.

Newcomers may be told a variety of reasons for this behavior: distinguishing a Dominant from a submissive online, formal displays of humility and respect, emphasis on status, etc. i, like many of these people, took this practice to heart as an outward display of D/s protocols. It was only when i began to encounter some opposition to these practices that I became curious about their origins.
After research, i discovered interesting historical aspects on this subject. i offer my findings here, not as to state "what you should do" but rather as a polite rebuttal to the perception that the use of lowercase names started as part of online roleplay. It is also intended as a rebuttal to those who veil pride behind the claim that forgoing modern capitalization is somehow less educated, and criticize the use of improper English.
The first documented use of capitalization occurred around the 4th century A.D., with Roman slave scribes. Until this time, Rome used several types of monocased handwriting, such as Capitalis Rustica or Uncial. 2 It is theorized that Roman slave scribes began to develop a method of handwriting for less important communications, beginning with messages between themselves. This handwriting may have been the first to employ both upper- and lowercased letters, introducing the concepts of majuscules and minuscules. The slaves would "lowercase" their names and "uppercase" their Masters, as a form of differentiation. 7 This style of differentiation between subjects in handwriting became what is now called Half-Uncial, and was adopted when many of these slave scribes began to write books that gained renown.

Half-Uncial was adopted somewhere around 600 AD, by Latin and Greek philosophers to write their notes. Because many of their predecessors had lowercased their names, these philosophers and theologians continued to do so. Many were unaware that their predecessors had been very educated slaves. 3
With the introduction of the Carolingian script in about 800 A.D., the general public began to incorporate capitals and "smalls" in a single text, usually in informal writings. 4 This use of capitalization resembles the manner in which we use it today, but did not become ubiquitous for many centuries.
It became a hallmark of truly dedicated intellectuals of the 11th and 12th centuries to use lowercase when speaking about one's self, as with "i" or "me", and to capitalize the names of gods, including the Christian deity ("God" or "Lord"). As an interesting side note, it is the authors of this time period that e. e. cummings (1894-1962) emulated when he lowercased his name. During his education he noticed Latin and Greek manuscript authors never capitalized their names, and he subsequently began to lowercase his as well.
 
When slavery flourished throughout what is now the Middle East and India, people incorporated a practice of naming their slaves after traits or positive life aspects in hopes to bring these qualities into their households. It became common to have slaves named such things as "wisdom," "dignity," "prosperity," etc. Female slaves, such as odalisques (harem girls), were often given soft names that described attractive things, such as "noor" (light). Some harem women were trained as spies, and named things such as "fahima" (disarming intelligence).10 Because these slaves were named after things, and not in the Muslim biblical naming practice, they were never capitalized.

Biblical literature began to use these conventions as well. While no part of the Syriac version of the Old Testament remains, the Armenian version (translated in 411 A.D. from Syriac to Armenian) shows that many testimonies were written with lowercased i's and my's, and employed third person speech to show humility before God. This version of the Christian bible was seemingly the first to begin capitalizing God, Lord, and the associated pronouns. 9

The Armenian version was later translated into a variety of other languages, but many of these revised versions retained the capitalization styles up until the 1700's, when Christian scholars decided to make the text "easier to read" and moved to a more modern style of formatting. Editing out some capitalization styles, third person speech,
abbreviations, and neumes (Byzantine musical notes to aid the reader in chanting scripture) were just some of the changes that were made. 8 Interestingly, the Christian bible still retains the capitalization for pronouns referring to divine beings in modern texts, such as the King James version.
Between the 1600 and 1800's, there was an evolution of language as America sought to keep existing English traditions, employ new "bolder" styles, and draw from many sources such as Africa, France, the Native American Indians, and many language of the West Indies Islands. Capitalization, punctuation, proper grammar, and other rules of English were used loosely in some places, and stringently in others. 1 It is interesting to note, in European literature in this time, slave names, places, and dialects were written in lowercase to distinguish them from European equivalents. In Oroonoko, or the History of the Royal Slave (1688), the European slave master refers to her in lowercase as a term of debasement, to remind her that she is no longer a princess, but a slave. 6

The English language evolved and changed over time, making shifts from Old English to Middle, to Modern, and finally to present-day English. The dialect we speak (mainly American English in the U.S.) is actually very young, less than 200 years old. What some term proper English is not truly traditional in a historical sense. To deem the use of lower- and uppercase conventions as improper is an argument without historical standing. There are many reasons a person may not agree with using these customs, but a short look into history demonstrates "proper English" is an amalgam of various cultures. A common issue taken with these conventions is doing so is to ruin the language, or pollute it some way. As stated above, there is no real purity of the language, and this should be taken into account when using this argument as a defense.

No matter the origins of a habit and practice, there will always be those who follow it religiously, those who follow it casually, and those who will argue against it. There is no right or wrong way, but there are methods that have proven themselves over time. You must be your own judge on what will work for you. Do be aware that subscribing or not to a certain D/s community "rule" may affect your standing within social circles you may choose to associate with. We, as humans, thrive on creating social constructs to define our ourselves and our behavior.

The practice of distinctive communication conventions in this context is not unpopular in this age, but it should be noted that for the purposes of this argument i would like to express the major reasoning. Firstly, there is a distinct historical precedent. It has been established that these practices have been in use for hundreds of years. Secondly, the use of D/s-style conventions predates the current conventions. Thirdly, the practice itself is functional. For me, personally, i will continue to lowercase my name and capitalize titles and pronouns associated with my Master and other Dominants out of respect and training. These types of reminders and restrictions are helpful to me, helping to create an environment that keeps my submission in the forefront of my thoughts. However, knowing a little history doesn't hurt either.


References

  1. Childs, Matt D. Florida State University.
  2. Diringer, David. (1982) The Book Before Printing: Ancient, Medieval and Oriental. New York: Dover Publications.
  3. Granger, Frank. Periodical: The Printer's Northwest Trader. Issue: 1998.08. "Twenty-six Wonders". Page: 6
  4. Greenberg, Joseph H. (1967) "Essays in Linguistics Chicago", University of Chicago Press
  5. Kasson, Joy S. "Mind in Matter in History: Viewing The Greek Slave"
  6. Behn, A. (1688) Oroonoko or the History of the Royal Slave
  7. Rick, Tyler and Popp, Martin. Museum of the Alphabet, Waxhaw, North Carolina
  8. Romaine, Susanne (1994) Language and Society. An Introduction to Socilinguistics. New York; Oxford University Press Inc.
  9. Ryrie, C. C. Formatting the Word of God The Charles Caldwell Ryrie Collection
  10. Vadja, Edward, Prof. Western Washington University, Linguistics 201
  11. Yale Journal of Criticism (1998)


< Message edited by Decadentpleasure -- 12/30/2008 11:12:19 AM >


_____________________________

~Loved Cherished Owned, i am His pleasure for His pleasure~

(in reply to SassySarijane)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/30/2008 11:58:16 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
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I skipped..that..I am dutch :P
(neah..interesting read)

(in reply to Decadentpleasure)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/30/2008 12:12:33 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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What a delightful and informative read, thank you. Interesting with the Half-Uncial script, it is one of the scripts used with much Celtic writing and is found in various forms in the legendary "Book of Kells". I love it and use it exclusively for it's form and beauty when doing calligraphy and document illumination a-la-Book of Kells. 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Decadentpleasure)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Is it a disiplinary matter if a servant capitalises... - 12/30/2008 12:17:23 PM   
lilgirl2008


Posts: 73
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
in short...it is rubbish.

(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 60
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