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Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 10:04:32 AM   
ruhdwulf


Posts: 13
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		My collared slave is not geographically close enough to serve me everyday. She serves me approximately every 1 - 2 weeks for an entire day. She has a high sex drive and, as an understanding Master, I have told her that with my explicit permission she may have sex with people who I have approved.

She has done so in the past. However, she has written to admit that she had sex without asking beforehand, though it was with a person who I had indicated would be acceptable if she wished to ask. I find this disappointing.

I genuinely appreciate her honesty in telling me, but I still view it as a challenge. We will be together later this week and I will punish her for this with lashes. I am considering asking her to repeat that she is collared to me of her own free will. I should add that we are both relatively new to the Master/slave relationship and I am quite fond of this slave.

Several questions:

1) Is this an appropriate and sufficient punishment?
2) How do other Masters view this disobedience?
3) What would you expect from your slave in similar circumstances? Might you allow your slave to have sex with approved individuals?


Thank you for your insights into this.

regards,
Ruhdwulf
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 10:11:42 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ruhdwulf
1) Is this an appropriate and sufficient punishment?
2) How do other Masters view this disobedience?
3) What would you expect from your slave in similar circumstances? Might you allow your slave to have sex with approved individuals?
regards,
Ruhdwulf


I think you shouldn't be asking an online forum how to handle the specifics of your relationship.

But since you did...
I think you both are handling things very well. She was honest about it, you are honest in the consequences of it and you both understand the situation. Frankly, a good solution might be just to give her a carte blanche with the people you have approved. Planning sex dates with three people when only two of them will need to be together seems a bit complicated. As long as she's obeying you and getting all of her chores and life stuff done, what does it matter if she's fucking someone you approve of or watching the latest episode of House?

I think giving her those privileges is a great thing for you all. It shows you are all secure with eachother and that sex can be just as much a service or extension as anything. Since you can't be together very regularly, it lets her enjoy something she likes, keeps her happy hormones going and obviously serving you well.

One thing I would do is make sure that both of you realize the complications and commitments you are making. Ask yourselves and eachother if this situation is REALLY what will serve you best?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ruhdwulf)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 10:15:04 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		LOL reposted also :


Well, the first thing I would do ( and this is coming from the side of a submissive ) is sit down with her and DISCUSS WHY she did this, before any punishment took place. There has to be a reason WHY. Why did she not get permission first? Why did she FEEL as if she could not ask you if she could have sex with this person? WHY, WHY, WHY.

Long distance relationships are hard enough to maintain; there has to be communication everywhere, at all times, every day, 24 hours a day. The fact that she had asked in the past, but not with this one, says that somewhere, something happened that she felt she could NOT ask you permission.

As for the punishment. Well, if she is truly sorry about what happened, then YOUR disappointment should be punishment enough. I would think, that with her high sex drive, having her abstain from sex would be a more approiate punishment. Just my opinion though.

If I was the slave in question...these are the same questions I would be asking myself. Why did I disobey. Why did I feel the need to disobey. Is it just for attention? Or is there something more deep there that needs to be discussed.

None of my past partners would have stood for such behavior in me. But, I never would have done such a thing either. Their loss of trust in me, and their disappointment would have been enough to stop this behavior from happening in the first place. But that's just me. I have never had to deal with a long distance relationship, so I can't say how I would really react in such a way.

(in reply to ruhdwulf)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 10:15:07 AM   
Mylee


Posts: 217
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		If i were you i would make sure she understood that when you pointed this person out to be 'ok to have sex with' that she didn't think you were giving her permission already, make sure she understood that she still had to ASK for permission to do so...if it's clear that she understood that as a rule, then yes, it's a challenge to your authority and should be handled as such..you asked 3 questions, i'm not a master but i can answer them from the slave point of view

1) Yes i think that lashes would be approprite, but i would make sure she understands WHY she is being punished, because for many of us lashes can equate to pleasure instead of pain

2) From the view point of myself as a sub this would be disobedience in the highest

3) No way would Master ever allow me to have sex with others, but each relationship is different and you need to go with what works best for you

i'm wishing you well,
my'lee

(in reply to ruhdwulf)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 11:18:40 AM   
NotN2U


Posts: 13
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline 		Here is the way I see it...noting I am usually "wrong" according to everyone else... but this is the way I see it:
If someone is going to be disobedient and she wants to fuck other people without asking you, she is gonna do it no matter what you say or do. Punish her for it and she will not only fuck whom she wants, but will most likely deny it or hide it from you.
Simply put... someone is either yours or they are not yours. They are either honest and faithful or they are not. They are either loyal or they are not. If the case be that they are not, don't waste your time trying to understand why or trying to change them.

(in reply to Mylee)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 11:22:44 AM   
Raphael


Posts: 263
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ruhdwulf

Several questions:

1) Is this an appropriate and sufficient punishment?


There's no way I could answer that without knowing her fairly intimately, as well as you. There is always a danger when using whippings for correction that you actually reïnforce the behaviour, rather than discourage it. If you mean for a whipping to be correction, it must be too severe to give pleasure. How severe that is depends on her own threshold, it's very individual. It may well be that in order to correct her with the whip you would have to inflict a more severe beating than is actually safe or wise to give her. If you're not very certain of what you are doing, I would think of another form of correction.

A period of chastity was suggested, and is worth thinking about. She abused your indulgence, perhaps it should be withdrawn for a period of time.

I've found that simply being ordered to stand with her nose in the corner for a period of time, during which she is completely ignored, is often a far more effective way to correct a misbehaving slave girl than any whipping I am willing to inflict. The whip is more of a reward than a punishment. Something to think about.

You were right to describe this as a 'challenge.' It is a challenge indeed, and your creativity and resourcefulness in facing it is very probably going to be crucial to the future of your relationship with this girl.


quote:

2) How do other Masters view this disobedience?


Extremely seriously. She is your collared slave. What she has confessed to you is, in essence, a rape. That she initiated it doesn't change that - as a collared slave, it is your consent, not hers, that must be obtained. The fact that you have been so easy-going about giving your consent does not excuse her acting without it - frankly I would say if anything it makes it even worse. She could easily have obtained consent, she knew it, and she deliberately declined to seek it?

I'd have to be closer to be sure, but from your description of the events it sounds very much like she has deliberately challenged your authority here. Perhaps because she is insecure, and suspects that your ready willingness to allow other men to enjoy her body indicates you don't really want to own her, or aren't really capable of owning her. Or perhaps... well there's a million perhapses. I would say take it absolutely seriously. If you wish to keep this girl, you need to get very deeply into her head, you need to figure out why she did this, and then you need to correct her.

quote:

3) What would you expect from your slave in similar circumstances? Might you allow your slave to have sex with approved individuals?


I would be shocked, stunned really. I would first ascertain why she did it, then I would decide if I still wanted her, and if I did I would discipline her severely.

Yes, it's conceivable I would allow that, certainly. It's conceivable I would command that. That's an entirely different matter from looking the other way if she took that action without my permission or command.

>Raphaël


(in reply to ruhdwulf)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 11:42:50 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raphael
What she has confessed to you is, in essence, a rape. That she initiated it doesn't change that - as a collared slave, it is your consent, not hers, that must be obtained.

I strongly object to using that term.

He may have used property without permission (and we're not sure if he knew it was disobedient sex), but she was a happily willing accomplice. I'm not going to call someone a rapist just because the slave decided to fuck without permission.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Raphael)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 11:44:20 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raphael
What she has confessed to you is, in essence, a rape. That she initiated it doesn't change that - as a collared slave, it is your consent, not hers, that must be obtained.

I strongly object to using that term.

He may have used property without permission (and we're not sure if he knew it was disobedient sex), but she was a happily willing accomplice. I'm not going to call someone a rapist just because the slave decided to fuck without permission.


I agree. She was a willing partner in this; there was no rape involved.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 12:01:35 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		I would take her sex with others privilage away for a week or two. Lashes are ok but they don't fit the offense, Maybe make that one person off limits or every one offlimits and explain this wh/ile you give her lashes, LEssons are most effective in my personal experince if they fit the crime, I mean like if I ate icecream and I knew that was a no no then you'd be better off to take my food privilages away , or be stricter about when I'd next be allowed un supervised axcess to the kitchen.

< Message edited by FelinePersuasion -- 1/2/2006 12:12:31 PM >

(in reply to ruhdwulf)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 2:01:34 PM   
NotN2U


Posts: 13
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I strongly object to using that term.

He may have used property without permission (and we're not sure if he knew it was disobedient sex), but she was a happily willing accomplice. I'm not going to call someone a rapist just because the slave decided to fuck without permission.


I agree with ya Lucky. Tossing around accusatory labels like that is not only wrong, but libelous.
Jeezuz, does this guy have a clear working knowledge of the Queen's English? One cannot both give her willing consent and be raped...(unless it is "play rape"). The slave apparantly just has no conscience when it comes to opening her legs and giving away what she has already sworn to Another. The guy who had sex with her just took advantage of the situation...

I probably shouldn't but I cannot resist, so I am gonna say it anyways: Why would you give your permission to your girl to have sex, then not understand when she goes one step further and does it at her own discretion and will? That's like tossing a T-bone to your dog one day and beating its ass the next for simply taking it from the table. To Me it is, anyway.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 2:48:01 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

That's like tossing a T-bone to your dog one day and beating its ass the next for simply taking it from the table. To Me it is, anyway.


If the dog was in charge that would be correct. There is a big difference between allowing "treat" and permitting treats to be taken at will any time. Knowing the difference is an essential part of training. A poorly trained dog would take that steak, a trained one would watch it rot, and die of starvation while doing so.

(in reply to NotN2U)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 3:43:46 PM   
sweetpettjenny


Posts: 674
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline 		the best punishment would be a locking chastity belt...no sex no touching, no orgasms

(in reply to ruhdwulf)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 3:44:36 PM   
MasterLark


Posts: 249
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline 		My own view is that your first problem is the seeming contradiction that is the dynamic here-- you only meet in person infrequently, she has a high sex drive, she has to get your permission before having sex with someone else. That combination will eventually fail, if only because her high sex drive will need to be satisfied somehow. You may want to re-think that.

My punishment would not be lashes but to NOT to meet with her at the regular interval, then further discussions about how to go forward, different from the current dynamic.

There are lots of things here we do not know, and perhaps do not need to know, but what about re-location for you or her?

If I had a similar arrangement with a high sex drive slave, she would be free to have sex with whomever -- presuming I trust her judgment and safe sex practices, but no prior permission needed.

(in reply to ruhdwulf)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 4:20:05 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

That's like tossing a T-bone to your dog one day and beating its ass the next for simply taking it from the table. To Me it is, anyway.


If the dog was in charge that would be correct. There is a big difference between allowing "treat" and permitting treats to be taken at will any time. Knowing the difference is an essential part of training. A poorly trained dog would take that steak, a trained one would watch it rot, and die of starvation while doing so.

THank you Merc, that was a perfect response.

Some of us bitches can thoroughly enjoy the pleasure's we're permitted within the guidelines given.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 6:40:49 PM   
Cloudz


Posts: 836
Joined: 9/13/2005
Status: offline 		Although there have been many excellent responses...my reaction is that she is attention seeking. I would address the problem from that angle.

_____________________________

Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."


(in reply to ruhdwulf)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 6:55:03 PM   
MHOO314


Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		Sex drive has nothing to do with it, buy a vibrator---Master's rules are the rules, end of discussion--in My world, it would be lashes and banishment for a period of time---I don't screw around with submissives who screw around.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor


(in reply to ruhdwulf)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 6:56:05 PM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloudz

Although there have been many excellent responses...my reaction is that she is attention seeking. I would address the problem from that angle.


Seems to me that you have a pretty good handle on it. I agree with all of LAs observations. Including the one about making it public. But, since you did...

She disobeyed and should be punished. Yes, I think lashes...with words...are appropriate, if that's how you usually deal with such things. I also think it's an appropriate time for some fine-tuning of your arrangement, or of the understanding of the arrangement.

Bob

(in reply to Cloudz)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/2/2006 10:51:52 PM   
SirDarkside357


Posts: 393
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		I wasn't going to say anything about this...It doesn't seem to be any of my business...but I had to say this one thing...anyone can make a mistake...even Masters...If a mistake is made and true remorse is shown, then, after what ever the appropriate punishment is giveen, then things are back to an even field...if it happens again, then there is a problem...what ever the wrong is.

(in reply to NotN2U)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/3/2006 12:02:37 AM   
Petruchio


Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline 		I found the agreement a little confusing until I reread it.

The salient points are that (a) you did give permsission, (b) she has been honest, (c) you did indicate the person was acceptable.

I'm not a person who gives permission, so that aspect is outside my pervue. However, without quite putting my finger on it, I think you may have erred.

Also, you definition of *fond* suggests you may be developing feelings which may be in conflict with said permission. I.e., you have to take care of yourself too.

Further, if she has a faithless libido, you have to give that some thought. Don't you become the slave.

One last note: If you use lashes to pleasure your slave, you may wish to withhold whipping on the principle that it wouldn't be punishment at all.

(in reply to ruhdwulf)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Disobedient Slave - 1/3/2006 5:50:53 AM   
wolffeathers


Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think you shouldn't be asking an online forum how to handle the specifics of your relationship.


He asked because he, as stated in his post, is new to M/s.

He wishes to know what others think, and not about the relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ruhdwulf
1) Is this an appropriate and sufficient punishment?
2) How do other Masters view this disobedience?
3) What would you expect from your slave in similar circumstances? Might you allow your slave to have sex with approved individuals?
regards,
Ruhdwulf



1) As this is a first punishment, yes.

However, you have to make sure that it is also the ONLY punishment.

2) As has been stated by others, there was complication in the way that you presented your orders.

From your words, your slave did not ask first, so therefore, punishement is needed.

3)I would expect my pet to get my permission before doing something, even if it seems I have given it.

As I am in a poly relationship, my slave haveing sex is not a issue.

She knows who she can sleep with, and who she can't.

It's that simple.

_____________________________

It's my way or the highway. Just happens that the highway is on my way.

~Master Wolf

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 20
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