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Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 6:21:48 PM

khalya

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In my experience, this has never come up, but I was wondering what would happen if it did. I am, to put it mildly, a pagan. To anyone that walks into my apartment, it is blatantly obvious that there is juju working in there.

Has anyone had an experience where religious differences ruined an established relationship?

_____________________________

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
-Jimi Hendrix

Dreams and reality are opposites. Action synthesized them.
-Assata Shakur

A true revolutionary is guided by love.
-Che Guevara

Post #: 1

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 7:04:26 PM

hizgeorgiapeach

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quote:

ORIGINAL: khalya
Has anyone had an experience where religious differences ruined an established relationship?

More than once. A couple of times in my past, I was in the early stages of a relationship with someone - but Religion hadn't been a topic of conversation at all. It was almost as though it were mutually - though silently - agreed that Religion was an off limits topic, even as far as basic compatibility was concerned. Then he found out that I was pagan - very pagan - while he was (in both cases) a diehard, zealous, church twice on Sundady and once on Wenesdady, if'n ya ain't God Fearin' ya gonna Burn In Hell type - with absolutely Zero tolerance for any deviations from his specific style of relgion in those he was dating.

I always wondered why they weren't asking out the women they attended church with, if it was That important to them, rather than wasting my time getting to know them and start to like them - then tell me that I had what they considered a fatal flaw and the relationship was over if I didn't agree to convert post haste.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to khalya)

Post #: 2

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 7:38:48 PM

Aszhrae

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Joined: 3/31/2008
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Yes.
Back when I was attending high school.
I was pagan and goth. Mostly the subject of prejudice, ignorance and more than my share of fights which of course I lost because I was not much of a fighter back then.
Most importantly is the fact it is a constant source of strife with master since he first seen the knotted pentagram on my back. It does not come up very often nowadays, but when master decides he wants get under my skin he would attack my beliefs or blame my beliefs on his own shortcomings.
I consider my self very spiritual nowadays. Unfortunately there does not seem to be all that much room for a sub/slave in a D/s or M/s that perceives a dominant as a representation of the goddess.

(in reply to khalya)

Post #: 3

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 8:08:07 PM

slaveboyforyou

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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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I dated a woman for over a year that was a self-described pagan. I really didn't care; I'm not religious at all. But I found her and her friend's views on history to be grossly ignorant and misinformed. Me being the way that I am, it did lead to arguments. I tried to keep my mouth shut until I heard her ranting about St. Patrick's Day and Christianity destroying the faith of the Celts, which is just stupid. Christianity for the most part was peacefully spread throughout Europe. The real destroyers of Celtic culture in the British Isles were the invading Germanic tribes, who had their own polytheistic beliefs.

I also find the term, "Pagan" to be a bad one. Technically anyone that is not a Christian is a pagan. The word comes from early Christians, and it was a word used in mockery. A more appropriate term would be, poly-theist. Plus, it's an affront to the original practicioners of one mono-theistic religion to have their faith meshed with the faith of another. For example, I don't understand how someone finds it proper to combine elements of Celtic poly-theism (which we know very little about, because the Celts didn't leave written records). and elements of say Nordic or Greek polytheism.

(in reply to khalya)

Post #: 4

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 8:16:25 PM

Aszhrae

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I am so not touching this one. Promised a few people that I would not allow my self to be so easily provoked.

I will say this though, someone is obviously looking at history concerning christianity through rose-tinted glasses.

Would slaveboyforyou prefer the word witch and the practitioner of witchcraft more suitable?

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 5

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 8:31:08 PM

slaveboyforyou

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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

I am so not touching this one. Promised a few people that I would not allow my self to be so easily provoked.

I will say this though, someone is obviously looking at history concerning christianity through rose-tinted glasses.

Would slaveboyforyou prefer the word witch and the practitioner of witchcraft more suitable?

No I'm looking at Christianity through the eyes of someone who's actually read about the history of it. I loved history so much, I got my degree in it. I never said that Christians didn't do bad things to people in the name of their faith. I got news for you, so did polytheists. The Romans were "pagans" and they persecuted and killed Christians. All societies and religions have been persecuted and fought with outside groups. One isn't anymore deserving of sympathy than the other. No, I wouldn't prefer the word witch or the practicioner of witchcraft. The word isn't specific. A lot of different societies had practicioners of what we would call witchcraft.

(in reply to Aszhrae)

Post #: 6

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 8:39:51 PM

TheHeretic

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       For someone who claims to be "not religious at all," you seem pretty well steeped in Christian mythology, Slaveboy... Are you sure you don't just mean you are a non-practicing Christian? There is quite a difference.

      My own beliefs and practices are an evolving synthesis of neo-pagan/wiccan inspired ritual, Christian thought, and attempts at Zen outlook. I find peace in it, but there is something in the mix for just about anyone to hate.

       Yes. I have had it cause problems in relationships.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 7

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 8:51:25 PM

hizgeorgiapeach

Posts: 1672
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

Would slaveboyforyou prefer the word witch and the practitioner of witchcraft more suitable?

Only one problem with that, Aszhrae - not everyone who practices an alternative, non-conventional, nature based, or polytheistic based religion is a witch, practioner, or holds any desire to become either of those things. While many of us are, by no means is it All of us. Just as we are not all specifically Wiccan simply because we practice one of those polytheistic mostly pre-christian religions.

When I personally use the term "pagan" I use it to mean "non-conventional, non-christian/islamic/jewish/other form of world recognized ultra organized religion."

Slaveboy - you are both correct and incorrect concerning the use of the term "Pagan." It was, indeed, originally used as a derogatory term - indicating, specificially, someone who was from the countryside rather than a city area. The equivalant of calling someone a Hick these days. It was actually a term from the slightly pre-christian Romans - coined prior to Christianity becoming the offiicial State religion of the Roman Empire just before it's split and final fall. As those in the considerably more rural areas were exposed to religions such as Christianity, Judaeism, or Islam much later than those who dwelt in the (relatively) large population city centers, they were more likely to continue to cling to Country/Nature Based practices much longer than the citified folk who were mocking them.

You are also incorrect in thinking that it does - or should - mean only Polytheists, or Any non-Christian. The Islamic faith is certainly non-Christian - and yet it is Monotheistic, and in fact worships the same Diety (albeit by a different name) as Judaeism and Christianity - the god of Abraham. A diety, btw, which was Originally part of a Polytheistic system, and was in fact nothing more than a Minor war diety of one particular nomadic tribe - a hugely Sucessful tribe, when it came to conquoring and converting those they happened to stumble across while looking for better feeding grounds for their various flocks of herdable domestic animals. It was not until relatively late that it became a Monotheistic system - the time of Moses, by which point the tribe/family had grown to number in the Thousands as interrelated clans - a few hundred years after the advent of said diety making covenant with Abraham to be the family/clan patron diety. Or is it that you consider Muslems and Jews to be "pagans" - or those who practice Buddism, Zoroastrianism (which is also a Monotheistic system predating Christianity, just like Judaeism predates Christianity) or Tao, or Zen or Hinduism (though it IS a polytheistic system) - as much as you do those who practice Wiccca, Native American beliefs, or the Polytheistic systems of Norse derivative, and those who mix comfortable elements of many of those?

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to Aszhrae)

Post #: 8

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 8:51:51 PM

corysub

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I really don't judge a person by their religion but have been judged by others and that usually ends a friendship. I don't see any reason why people can't just accept others as they are rather than insist on having to "change' them to their way of thinking, or not thinking, about the supernatural. I actually am very curious about other religions and isms.....don't know enough about wicca or goth other than just a superficial look. Hey..whatever makes a person happy is fine...and a happy person usually doesn't want to destroy the world.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 9

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 9:04:53 PM

Aszhrae

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I was trying to be sarcastic in reference to witchcraft.
Sarcasm is not one of stronger traits because I do not use it all that often.
But you are quite correct, many of the beliefs nowadays are beginning to have ancient roots.
I pray to the goddess and usually offer a blessing to others. Does not necessarily mean I am wiccan and pentagram on my back is a very old symbol.
I believe it has a lot to do with the points of the human form and the optical of a star made to appear to twinkle with 5 points by someone on the ground viewing the sky above.
Also tend to believe in gnosticism (which is not to be confused with agnosticism).

(in reply to hizgeorgiapeach)

Post #: 10

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 9:09:12 PM

YourhandMyAss

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Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Nope, but then I pick people who're atheist like me, or alternative religion, and can keep it to themselves and not spread it about, if it's clear I don't want to hear about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: khalya

In my experience, this has never come up, but I was wondering what would happen if it did. I am, to put it mildly, a pagan. To anyone that walks into my apartment, it is blatantly obvious that there is juju working in there.

Has anyone had an experience where religious differences ruined an established relationship?

(in reply to khalya)

Post #: 11

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 9:19:07 PM

YourhandMyAss

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Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Nope, but then I pick people who're atheist like me, or are no longer practising the religion they were raised in , or alternative religion, and can keep it to themselves and not spread it about, if it's clear I don't want to hear about it. But so far it's never come up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: khalya

In my experience, this has never come up, but I was wondering what would happen if it did. I am, to put it mildly, a pagan. To anyone that walks into my apartment, it is blatantly obvious that there is juju working in there.

Has anyone had an experience where religious differences ruined an established relationship?

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 12

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 9:48:32 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
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Yes, trying living with a Muslim when 9/11 occurs. Not pretty. Distancing, lack of conversations, snarls, catty remarks (by me). It was over soonafter, probably 2 months later, after a 7 year common-law relationship. Coming from a military family, I found it hard not to become over-emotional and bitter. I am sorry now that I allowed other's (terrorism in general) actions made me behave that way towards a decent and honorable person.

< Message edited by came4U -- 12/31/2008 9:52:54 PM >

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 13

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 9:55:18 PM

Aszhrae

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You would be really bad for someone else's juju.

Since I am a child of the 60s: You're downing my groove.

Goddess bless and keep you and yours safe

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 14

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 10:08:08 PM

slaveboyforyou

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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

For someone who claims to be "not religious at all," you seem pretty well steeped in Christian mythology, Slaveboy... Are you sure you don't just mean you are a non-practicing Christian? There is quite a difference.

No, I mean I'm not religious. I consider myself a deist, which isn't a religion. It's a philosophy. I essentially believe in a creator and that's it. I don't believe in hocus pocus.

quote:

Slaveboy - you are both correct and incorrect concerning the use of the term "Pagan."

How am I incorrect? I said it was originally a term of mockery. I didn't go into detail about why that is. It is a term that is used about non-Christians. It has been used by Christians in the past in relation to Islam, even though Islam is an Abrahamic faith.

quote:

You are also incorrect in thinking that it does - or should - mean only Polytheists, or Any non-Christian.

I didn't say that. I said that people who refer to themselves as "pagans" would be more correct in calling themselves polytheists. My main gripe with many "pagans" is some of the claims that they make. It seems most neo-pagans that I meet are devotees of Celtic belief systems. The only problem with that is that very little is known about their practices. The ancient Celts didn't leave written records. Most of what is known about them is from the writings of Julius Ceaser, which may or may not be embellishments or outright lies.

I also have a problem with someone cramming the beliefs of many different peoples into one belief system. I just think that dishonors them. Yes, I have a problem with this myth propogated by many modern pagans that Christianity was forced on ancient European peoples. Christians did persecute people in the name of their faith, but Christianity by and large was adopted willingly and peacefully by many.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 15

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 10:22:49 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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From: Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I found her and her friend's views on history to be grossly ignorant and misinformed. Me being the way that I am, it did lead to arguments. I tried to keep my mouth shut until I heard her ranting about St. Patrick's Day and Christianity destroying the faith of the Celts, which is just stupid. Christianity for the most part was peacefully spread throughout Europe. The real destroyers of Celtic culture in the British Isles were the invading Germanic tribes, who had their own polytheistic beliefs.

I also find the term, "Pagan" to be a bad one. Technically anyone that is not a Christian is a pagan. The word comes from early Christians, and it was a word used in mockery. A more appropriate term would be, poly-theist. Plus, it's an affront to the original practicioners of one mono-theistic religion to have their faith meshed with the faith of another. For example, I don't understand how someone finds it proper to combine elements of Celtic poly-theism (which we know very little about, because the Celts didn't leave written records). and elements of say Nordic or Greek polytheism.

Wow. Talk about ignorant and misinformed. You seriously need to pick up some history and anthropology books and educate yourself. Really. While you're at it, look up the definition of syncretize.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
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Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl

"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 16

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 11:03:06 PM

slaveboyforyou

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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

Wow. Talk about ignorant and misinformed. You seriously need to pick up some history and anthropology books and educate yourself. Really. While you're at it, look up the definition of syncretize.

Nice job refuting my points.

. If you think I'm wrong, than provide a counter-argument. I know what "syncretize" means. You do realize that syncretization is generally done without any critical examination or logical unity. People may do that with religion, but it doesn't make it correct.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

Post #: 17

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 11:20:47 PM

popeye1250

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From: New Hampshire
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As a reformed ex catholic I don't care much for any religion.
When I say my prayers I say them for thanks and to "God" not any church or religion.
As for the Norse and the Celts of course they interacted!
They were both great sailors and travelers.
I was watching a program on the History Channel one time and they said that the DNA of ancient American Indians was 40% Celtic.
And in Iceland 40% of the people there have Celtic DNA in them.
And in Hampton, N.H. where I lived there was a road named "Viking Lane" after many Viking artifacts that were found there that predated Columbus by hundreds of years.
Now some young people may think they're "Pagans" because they listen to "Enya" and "Clannad" but they should look up ("Brehon Law"), the laws of the ancient Celts in Ireland. They covered everything from how the elderly should be cared for to the exchange of lands every 4 or 7 years or so to how to treat guests.
The ancient Celts in Ireland anyway were a literate people.
One thing is for certain, "religion" has caused more wars than any other thing in human history.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

Post #: 18

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 11:25:02 PM

khalya

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Joined: 11/25/2008
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As a descendant of slaves...yes I can trace my ancestry (the griot tradition is alive and well in my family). I know that my family did not adopt Christianity peacefully. Like Christianity was forced on Native Americans, in the name of "manifest destiny", Christianity was forced on my ancestors through the threat of the lash. I call myself pagan, because I feel comfortable with that term. It is an umbrella term that encompasses any manner of beliefs or practices. I am not Santerian, a Voudun practitioner, Wiccan, or Druid etc. However, I combine a lot of those spiritual elements into my practice. In all honesty, I am more Hoodoo than anything else. I believe in healing, so rootwork is a big part of who I am. I also am trained in reiki, and can do aromatherapy massage.

I would like to thank everyone that responded to this topic. I have been wondering about this for a while. I think that perhaps it would be better for me to be with someone that shares similar beliefs to mine, or at least understands them. I am thinking that perhaps it would be a good idea to have a discussion, with any future mates, to make sure that we have an understanding about belief system right away. That way we will not waste any of each others time.

Thanks!! I really appreciate all of you that respond to me, it really helps a lot.

_____________________________

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
-Jimi Hendrix

Dreams and reality are opposites. Action synthesized them.
-Assata Shakur

A true revolutionary is guided by love.
-Che Guevara

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 19

RE: Meshing of Religion - 12/31/2008 11:32:30 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

I really don't judge a person by their religion but have been judged by others and that usually ends a friendship. I don't see any reason why people can't just accept others as they are rather than insist on having to "change' them to their way of thinking, or not thinking, about the supernatural. I actually am very curious about other religions and isms.....don't know enough about wicca or goth other than just a superficial look. Hey..whatever makes a person happy is fine...and a happy person usually doesn't want to destroy the world.

"Goth" (from Gothic) is NOT a religion or spiritual practice; it is an affectation.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 20

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