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RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/7/2009 12:31:15 PM

colouredin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

It must be ingrained within the male ego to be repulsed by anything different than what they regard as normal or even reacting with hostility and possible violence.

Maybe that attitude why you get hostile responses to you? just sayin

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Post #: 161

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/7/2009 12:39:05 PM

LaTigresse

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Yanno, it really isn't all THAT different than a person in love with big breasts taking a woman home and finding out that Dcup bra was full of toilet paper and they are looking at fried eggs. Except that you are striking at a core fear of many men, homosexuality. Not many men are terrified of small boobs. Many are terrified of being label as "queer".

When you back a fearful creature into a corner what is the usual response? To fight.

I would say that with many men, if they found out the hot chick they were dating had a penile type appendage, that hot chick would in danger of a face full of fist. If not worse. I would not want a TG friend of mine put in that position, ever. I would rather console them when they were rejected, teased or made fun of, because they were honest in the very beginning.......than visit them in the hospital or morgue.

Neither is the idea, but I am a realist.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 162

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/7/2009 12:50:02 PM

Aszhrae

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Then again what about after SRS when all your identification states you are female. Do you still tell the date that the TG once had a penile appendage.
Not quite sure if the TG would have too.

< Message edited by Aszhrae -- 1/7/2009 12:51:08 PM >

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Post #: 163

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/7/2009 1:04:40 PM

LaTigresse

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Aszhrae, there are no hard and fast rules. The reality is that each person will do as they wish, even the OP here.

Another reality is that each will live with the consequences of the choices they make.

I can say that I prefer to be told things that are important in the life history of a person that have shaped who they are, and how they will behave in a relationship. If a person had to deal with something that huge, that potentially tramatic and life changing, then yes, I would definately want to know. I would also be upset if I found out from someone else or by other means.

Honesty is a big deal to me. So is personal integrity. These are topics that if handled with any subterfuge would lead me to doubt the honesty and integrity of the person. I would wonder what else they would feel they need to hide. And yes, it would probably cause an unrepairable rift in the relationship.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 164

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/7/2009 1:59:27 PM

samboct

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"I remember how much trouble it was for some people to accept when people started coming out of the closet and admitting that they were gay before it actually became accepted by the majority and only a minority are still offended.
The same can be said about those who are TG, going through the same thing."

Excellent point. It strikes me that a number of posters here want there to be different rules for TG than the rest of us. But its clear that in most situations, humans don't come clean about their past on a first date or prior- so why should they concerning this issue? The idea that TGs have to come clean prior to a date or they run the risk of violence is certainly similar to the fear that kept gays in the closet for so long.

Requiring that someone be TG to fully understand their viewpoint is in essence an ad hominem attack. Good debate means that a logical and reasoned point has been made- regardless of who's writing/saying it. If this were a requirement, blacks would still be enslaved.

E2Sweet- May I suggest that the lines you've drawn are clear to yourself, but that in a ticklish situation- human judgement beats a computer algorithm. Deception has been part of dating since Eve donned a fig leaf and overturning the rules of social intercourse generally takes years.

TG is becoming more common in today's world and I think we should best welcome this change and make people comfortable with the idea. I think there is far too much credibility given here to the "bubba" factor, and far too little to mainstream individuals who after all, managed to see films like Boys Don't Cry and the Crying Game in droves. In short- any guy that gets blindsided by the possibility that the person he's attracted to might have an XY set of chromosomes hasn't been paying much attention to either the movies, HBO, or the news.

Sam

(in reply to Aszhrae)

Post #: 165

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/7/2009 2:32:35 PM

ALAstella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: E2Sweet

I'm sorry, but after 8 pages of discussion and some additional thinking about this away from the 'puter, I still see this whole issue as 'doing the right thing and being up-front' vs. 'luring someone into having feelings for you before you drop a huge bomb on them out-of-the-blue'... To me, one choice is in fact ethical, and one is not.

I agree with E2Sweet here.

stella

(in reply to E2Sweet)

Post #: 166

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/7/2009 8:20:44 PM

aravain

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@sweetlindsey84

Bigots? What? I'm so confused by you and your circular... no it's not really circular... it's not even spiral. It's kinda just like a dot. Logic, that is.

@Aszhrae

If someone doesn't tell me about that before we're romantically 'involved' (it is probably the most *important* thing that's ever happened in their life) then I will feel deceived, just as I would if they were pre-op. It's a different level, and for different reasons, but that amount of deception is *still* enough to completely buzzkill any person, for me. It's not *as much* the fact that they're a transexual, than it is that they've deceived me, make sense?

@Aszrhae and samboct

Saying that homosexuality is accepted by the majority and only shunned by a minority is a humongous oversight and makes me feel very vulnerable. A majority of people (in the USA) do NOT support gay rights because they *DON'T ACCEPT HOMOSEXUALITY*. A majority of people do not accept homosexuality as a lifestyle and, in fact, proscribe to beliefs that claim it's *evil* among other things. People feeling like we're accepted 'enough' is exactly what makes me frightened for my future... we're not accepted until we're seen as *NO DIFFERENT* than other couples or people because, essentially, we're NOT. Everything before that is just 'tolerance' not equality.

And finally,

@samboct

Suggesting that it's someone else's fault that their partner deceives and lies to them, and that they should pay more attention to popular media and expect them to be transexual by default is silly... it doesn't change the fact (brought up by others) that most heterosexual men are deathly afraid of being labeled homosexual.

(in reply to sweetlindsey84)

Post #: 167

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/7/2009 8:58:36 PM

YourhandMyAss

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Most people here are quite open minded, however We're NOT open minded about being lied to or decieved, or allowed to form false notions of who someone we like really is. And waiting until someone likes you then springing very important news onto them, such as the status of your health or your gender, IS a lie and IS deceptive, and is unacceptable to most of us here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

There are times when I really wonder about how "open minded" people are on this site....

Regards,

Sam

(in reply to samboct)

Post #: 168

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/7/2009 9:19:56 PM

YourhandMyAss

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If someone waited until we had a real emotional connection, before telling me something so serious and important I'd honestly be likely to send them packing and have nothing else to do with them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlindsey84

I think everyone here is downing this woman for no good reason!!! the whole time im reading this im just.... ugh it's disgusting!!!! People saying she must disclose her genital makeup immediatlly seem to think that the only reason people meet each other and talk and get to know each other is so they can have sex together..... people date for months and years without having sex....plus who is to say a man she goes out on a date with would even be worth her time and emotional drain to tell them about that? I mean why tell them on the first contact or date or second date if she is going to break up with him on the third or fourth? or he may break up with her.. or she may get the feeling that he is not going to take the news well which im sure is not something you find out on the first date. and then break up with him... I mean telling someone your TS without a real emotional atachment can still be dangerous. This man obviouslly had an attraction toward her so who's to say he doesn't allready feel tricked? so by yall's logic she should just carry a sign or tell everyman who looks at her lady lumps she is tg... come on people have a lil respect for transsexual people this is the 21st century she shouldn't have to wear your scarlet letter!!!

(in reply to sweetlindsey84)

Post #: 169

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/7/2009 10:08:19 PM

YourhandMyAss

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Most People have stated Over and over AND OVER AGAIN! That it's more about feeling lied to and decived than it is wanting to take someone to bed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

As many have stipulated in other threads, the best thing to do is tell them if there is the sense that emotions are becoming heavy and thus more involved. The best thing you can hope for is that they are more interested in you as a person than wanting to take you to bed when you tell them.

(in reply to Aszhrae)

Post #: 170

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/8/2009 7:43:56 AM

xxblushesxx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Excellent point. It strikes me that a number of posters here want there to be different rules for TG than the rest of us. But its clear that in most situations, humans don't come clean about their past on a first date or prior- so why should they concerning this issue?

Sam

Nope. I am an equal opportunity discriminator. If you are a bi-male, I'd like to know before we date. If you are a switch, please tell me. If you are married or involved, I'd like to know before I invest my time and energy.

Give me the respect to make the decision that is right for both of us based on (very relevant) facts.

If you have OCD, eh...that can wait. You are a Star Trek fanatic? I'm sure I'll find that out soon enough. But don't put yourself out there as a female and lead people on and expect them to be ok with it later.

It is not ok to lie to a potential partner about such a large part (or not...I'm just sayin...

) of who you are.

Most people would not be able to get past the lie.
I can get past a lot, but the lie would kill it.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to samboct)

Post #: 171

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/8/2009 7:54:07 AM

colouredin

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I agree Blushes, I want to know if they are a man or woman i want to know if they are gay bi or straight i want to know all that fundemental stuff.

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Post #: 172

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/8/2009 7:54:21 AM

samboct

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The OP-"I was wondering to the TS girls if any of you had experience in dating people who had no idea you were trans? I'm wondering how long do you wait before telling someone that you're a TG. I know it's not right away lol!! But do you wait for the person to be into you and you into them before springing it on them?"

Aravain- "If someone doesn't tell me about that before we're romantically 'involved' (it is probably the most *important* thing that's ever happened in their life) then I will feel deceived, just as I would if they were pre-op. It's a different level, and for different reasons, but that amount of deception is *still* enough to completely buzzkill any person, for me. It's not *as much* the fact that they're a transexual, than it is that they've deceived me, make sense?

Seems to me most of this debate is revolving around a misunderstanding of the OP's intentions. The OP didn't say she wouldn't tell someone that she was TG- merely asked for the best time to do so.

Clearly a bunch of folks think that the correct time to do so is instantly. Well, Hitler had the same idea- Jews got to wear a yellow star and gays got to wear a pink triangle. Therefore there was no question about anybody before they asked you out on a date.

Let me point out that most men don't walk up to a woman and say- "You're hot. Wanna have dinner with me tonight?" In general, there's a fair amount of conversation that precedes a date invite. Maybe grabbing a cup of coffee or something. My response to the OP has been consistent- you don't have to announce that your TG to the world- which in essence is what you'd be doing if you'd identify yourself as such before grabbing a cup of coffee- but if you're going on a date with expressed romantic interest and the evening might logically proceed to something more than a handshake- than yeah- letting the guy know that ahead of that point would be a good idea. But all humans are different, and you do have to walk the line in between safeguarding your privacy and deceiving the other person.

I suspect that many people here attacked the OP because her choice of language- "springing it on them" does smack of deceit. It's a power trip- you have a secret that you're not sharing with someone you expect to be intimate with. My comment is that it doesn't matter what the secret is- it's still a power trip.

Aravain

"****Aszrhae and samboct

Saying that homosexuality is accepted by the majority and only shunned by a minority is a humongous oversight and makes me feel very vulnerable. A majority of people (in the USA) do NOT support gay rights because they *DON'T ACCEPT HOMOSEXUALITY*. A majority of people do not accept homosexuality as a lifestyle and, in fact, proscribe to beliefs that claim it's *evil* among other things. People feeling like we're accepted 'enough' is exactly what makes me frightened for my future... we're not accepted until we're seen as *NO DIFFERENT* than other couples or people because, essentially, we're NOT. Everything before that is just 'tolerance' not equality."

Not true. As has been noted many times- the moral majority is neither. What do you expect- Fox news to have somebody say Homophobia is dead? It isn't- neither is racism, but we have a non melanin challenged PE- and a year ago, most Fox news pundits would have said that hell would have frozen over first. (I could be wrong about Fox news- I never watch it.)

And finally,

****samboct

Suggesting that it's someone else's fault that their partner deceives and lies to them, and that they should pay more attention to popular media and expect them to be transexual by default is silly... it doesn't change the fact (brought up by others) that most heterosexual men are deathly afraid of being labeled homosexual."

On the contrary. Acknowledging that fear and prejudice exist is no excuse to run and hide and bury oneself in the sand. TG folks are not exactly a new phenomenon, but I suspect the numbers are increasing and the hormones and plastic surgery to make the transition more meaningful are now widely available. Catering to fear and prejudice provides justification for it- and again, you're making the assumption that fear and prejudice is the majority, when I suspect that it may already be a minority. But you can't be a little bit pregnant- and a healthy society can't have freedom for some.

Sam

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 173

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/8/2009 8:31:29 AM

GreedyTop

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quote:

I'm wondering how long do you wait before telling someone that you're a TG. I know it's not right away lol!! But do you wait for the person to be into you and you into them before springing it on them?"

sam..
I don't see anyone saying that the OP should respond to "You're hot, wanna go to dinner" with "Sure! BTW, I'm TG"

What I *DO* see people saying is that SOONER rather than later is probably the best idea.

Soon does not necessarily mean first date.

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Post #: 174

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/8/2009 8:50:50 AM

samboct

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Hi GT

Well, I agree with you that soon doesn't necessarily mean first date but if you look at posts #4-7 for example- it seems to me that these folks are saying to do exactly that
"the OP should respond to "You're hot, wanna go to dinner" with "Sure! BTW, I'm TG"

Heck, given the pre-dating rituals today, I'd say that before a first serious date might be a good idea- but a lot of this depends on the person.

From my perspective, there's a fair amount of dancing that can go on prior to the bluntness of this conversation- like a discussion about the Crying Game. Asking how your date would feel in such a situation would probably give you a pretty good indicator. If the person reacts in an uncomfortable manner- cross them off your list and move on.

Sam

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 175

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/8/2009 8:52:35 AM

colouredin

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See i think it depends what is meant by date. For me I dont date someone until I am pretty sure that I am romantically interested in them. If im not then its not really a date its just meeting up.

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Post #: 176

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/8/2009 9:07:59 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Excellent point. It strikes me that a number of posters here want there to be different rules for TG than the rest of us. But its clear that in most situations, humans don't come clean about their past on a first date or prior- so why should they concerning this issue?

Sam

Nope. I am an equal opportunity discriminator. If you are a bi-male, I'd like to know before we date. If you are a switch, please tell me. If you are married or involved, I'd like to know before I invest my time and energy.

Give me the respect to make the decision that is right for both of us based on (very relevant) facts.

If you have OCD, eh...that can wait. You are a Star Trek fanatic? I'm sure I'll find that out soon enough. But don't put yourself out there as a female and lead people on and expect them to be ok with it later.

It is not ok to lie to a potential partner about such a large part (or not...I'm just sayin...) of who you are.

Most people would not be able to get past the lie.
I can get past a lot, but the lie would kill it.

I don't know........the whole Star Trek thing would be the deal breaker for me!!

Just cringing at the thought..

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 177

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/8/2009 10:11:32 AM

xxblushesxx

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From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

Excellent point. It strikes me that a number of posters here want there to be different rules for TG than the rest of us. But its clear that in most situations, humans don't come clean about their past on a first date or prior- so why should they concerning this issue?

Sam

Nope. I am an equal opportunity discriminator. If you are a bi-male, I'd like to know before we date. If you are a switch, please tell me. If you are married or involved, I'd like to know before I invest my time and energy.

Give me the respect to make the decision that is right for both of us based on (very relevant) facts.

If you have OCD, eh...that can wait. You are a Star Trek fanatic? I'm sure I'll find that out soon enough. But don't put yourself out there as a female and lead people on and expect them to be ok with it later.

It is not ok to lie to a potential partner about such a large part (or not...I'm just sayin...) of who you are.

Most people would not be able to get past the lie.
I can get past a lot, but the lie would kill it.

I don't know........the whole Star Trek thing would be the deal breaker for me!! Just cringing at the thought..

Oh.

*pouts*

I was gonna dress up as seven of nine for ya too.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 178

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/8/2009 10:18:05 AM

samboct

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"Oh.

*pouts*

I was gonna dress up as seven of nine for ya too.

"

Hey- what about the rest of us??????

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 179

RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman - 1/8/2009 10:23:01 AM

tsatske

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From: Louisville, KY
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Oh, Effing G-D! As if Blushes weren't hot enough already - Seven of Nine is Just Hot!

on the subject of 'when to tell', i think if you (as a person with something to disclose) get selfish and think about yourself rather than the other person, you would tend to tell sooner.

I am mentally ill. I am not going to stalk you, you won't be able to tell I'm mentally ill most of the time. I *COULD* go for years before I tell someone.
But I tell them - First date, at the LATEST. If the first date is a casual coffee thing that comes fast cause we live in the same town... like we are chatting for less than one afternoon and He says, Hey, meet me for coffee - then I will tell him on that coffee date.
If it takes longer than that to get to that - I will be disclosing before then.

Wow, don't I sound all noble and shit. Here's the deal - it's for ME. mental illness is a deal breaker for some. A Master who really loved me released me, years ago, because He could not live with my mental illness. And He had KNOWN, from Day one. But He found living with it was differant from knowing, so - eight years into the relationship, after living 24/7 together for Three years, He found He had to release me.

I can't guarentee it won't happen with another. But, I can minimize my odds to such an event. If you know mental illness is a deal breaker for you, well, you are going to get a chance to say so - EARLY - before either of us spend too much time or effort on each other. Then, if we like one another, we can be clear about what we are doing, as we progress towards the famous 'nothing but friendship'. And that's fine, as long as we all KNOW.

Likewise - I am a beautiful woman, but I am fat, and going bald. I GUARENTEE YOU - unless you are texting me from Noahs original computer, and just can't accept a pic file - you will be getting a nice, vanilla, fully clothed pic of me, BEFORE WE MEET, even in the 'chat for 20 minutes and decide to meet for coffee' deal. If you are going to look at me and say, 'No, Thanks', I'd just as soon you do it with me all cozy in my own home, instead of getting up and getting all done up to meet you just to hear that. That is why my pic was not, for all the time I was single, a very flattering one. No Glamour Shots for me - I'd rather you be pleasently surprised when we meet. (If you are on Noah's original computer texting me from work, I will be describing myself, and not all that flatteringly. More like, '40, fat, balding, 250#, 5'1, and, as one former Master kindly described me, 'spherical' "

Why wait? get it - ALL of it - whatever your personal IT is - get it out of the way so you can move on comfortably and confidently without trash hanging over your head.

_____________________________

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(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 180

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