RE: Label offence (Full Version)

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windchymes -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 6:39:15 AM)

Add in misuse and I'll buy it [;)]



beargonewild -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 7:22:41 AM)

I fully agree with that!



bound4more -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 1:34:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CFslaves2

Why are labels so offencive to some? i reason that as long as respect is used, a label expresses an understanding, be it true or false. And if the interpritation is false, than it can be corrected. Right?




The only labels i have found that don't lead to misunderstanding are the ones placed on packages to be delivered in the mail or such. Labeling a person can be offensive simply because not everyone has the same understanding of what a label means. Not everyone agrees on what a sub, slave, Dom, Owner etc. are. We all have our own ideas of them, based on our experiences and desires. i think communication of what a specific label represents to each individual is helpful, but i don't know if even then clarity will remain simply because ideas change just as individuals do.



JustDarkness -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 5:07:28 PM)

labels prevent chaos.
Wouldn't want to do without it.

Some people don't like labels...but doesn't mean the labels are wrong. Without labels we wouldn't be able to talk about certain things.
Imagine when we didn't have the label Dom or sub....how would you look for such person..without the label?



IrishMist -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 5:11:30 PM)

quote:

Imagine when we didn't have the label Dom or sub....how would you look for such person..without the label?

Well...let's see...you get off your ass and off the internet...you go to a local club....and start meeting people face to face....once that is accomplished, it should  be pretty easy to make the initial determination of who has what kind of personality....then, you meet, start talking kink, and ask that ALL pertinent question....which side of the flogger do you like.

Sounds pretty simple and straightforwad to me.



Aneirin -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 5:15:31 PM)

The trouble with your scenario of a club and talk of which side of the flogger you like is when you say both, that makes you a switch, when the term switch really does not apply. Is there a sitauation where one can like receiving and administering without being a switch ?



JustDarkness -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 5:16:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

Imagine when we didn't have the label Dom or sub....how would you look for such person..without the label?

Well...let's see...you get off your ass and off the internet...you go to a local club....and start meeting people face to face....once that is accomplished, it should  be pretty easy to make the initial determination of who has what kind of personality....then, you meet, start talking kink, and ask that ALL pertinent question....which side of the flogger do you like.

Sounds pretty simple and straightforwad to me.


agree..but as we are on here...I meant onhere.
I should have mentioned it.

btw..what label would the club have. If I look for females..as male..it is not wise to go to a gay club ;)
Perhaps a club labeled as bdsm club...to improve my succes for a sub? Or a singles club?




scottjk -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 5:25:16 PM)

And all this goes down the toilet.

My point was that labels are important to me so that I have something to start with, so what if there's more to a personal definition?

Like I said, some are label phobic beyond reason. It seems to be that all the anti-label talk is more about being anti-social, than the misuse of labels.

It's really silly.




IrishMist -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 5:25:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

The trouble with your scenario of a club and talk of which side of the flogger you like is when you say both, that makes you a switch, when the term switch really does not apply. Is there a sitauation where one can like receiving and administering without being a switch ?

First I have to ask.....why does the term switch not 'really' apply? Curiousity takes a peek [8D]



IrishMist -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 5:29:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

And all this goes down the toilet.

My point was that labels are important to me so that I have something to start with, so what if there's more to a personal definition?

Like I said, some are label phobic beyond reason. It seems to be that all the anti-label talk is more about being anti-social, than the misuse of labels.

It's really silly.



That may be true for some; but then for the rest you have to understand that labels, when applied to people, do nothing more than pull blinders down over the eyes. They don't see the person then, all they see is the label.

That is why I don't like labels and refuse to use them or apply them to others. ANd before you or someone else goes off on the 'male female label is necessary'....I say no its not. When I look at a person, I see either a male or a female...I don't need it spelled out for me.



JustDarkness -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 5:31:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

My point was that labels are important to me so that I have something to start with, so what if there's more to a personal definition?



labels give no room for personal definitions...well not much...
else the label would looe its use.

I love them..because they give you a direction..especially when you are new

On the otherside..when it gets personal..and you call a female/male..just a sub..you do the person wrong..because she is more. And she/he is not like all the "other" subs.
People don't liek to be compared..they are not clones..hence they dislike labels.



beargonewild -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 7:37:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

ORIGINAL: scottjk

And all this goes down the toilet.

My point was that labels are important to me so that I have something to start with, so what if there's more to a personal definition?

Like I said, some are label phobic beyond reason. It seems to be that all the anti-label talk is more about being anti-social, than the misuse of labels.

It's really silly.



That may be true for some; but then for the rest you have to understand that labels, when applied to people, do nothing more than pull blinders down over the eyes. They don't see the person then, all they see is the label.

That is why I don't like labels and refuse to use them or apply them to others. ANd before you or someone else goes off on the 'male female label is necessary'....I say no its not. When I look at a person, I see either a male or a female...I don't need it spelled out for me.


Yet when you characterize someone as being ill, cold hearted, a bitch, etc you are still labeling that person according to that person's nature. Labeling a person isn't a an evil thing, it's the incorrect or misuse of labels which is the culprit. We need to use labels to gain a sense of identity of ourselves and of our surrounds including the interactions with other people. Safest bet is to ask the person in question to avoid misusing an inappropiate label.



trealeon -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 8:00:38 PM)

I don't think labels in and of themselves are offensive. I think sometimes people use labels in an offensive way, to insult or demean someone because they say or do something they don't like.  It's usually pretty clear when someone is doing that and people get justifiably upset about it.

I also think sometimes people get offended by labels because 1) Someone uses a label to put someone in a category that person doesn't see themselves in or 2) Someone believes that the other is trying to be offensive by using a label when in reality that person is not. (So it's just a misunderstanding).

I think labels are unavoidable, it's just going to happen that you either label someone or get labeled. I think we as humans use labels to group things and that helps our brain organize concepts. In fact, I just had a flashback to childhood and how they would teach us what things are by putting physical labels on them in the classroom. We learn from an early age to label things. And we also learn that just because it's a "chair" there are dozens if not hundreds of different types of chair. Not every chair is the same, but they are all chairs, so we call them collectively "chairs." The only difference is, the chair doesn't get offended that you didn't call it a "recliner" instead of a chair.

My thought is, if someone labels me something I don't think I am... and sometimes i have to think because maybe they saw something in me that I haven't seen and what they said is true... but if I know, that's not me... I say "well I don't see myself as that" and then if I think there is a more appropriate grouping I belong in as a counter to the label they tried to affix to me, I tell them that. I've found, that most people handle that well, unless they are trying to be jerks and prove some grand point about you (which goes back to using labels offensively).



VampiresLair -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 8:15:26 PM)

I dont see most labels as offensive. I do, however, take into account the intention behind it.
Labeling me Dominant, Mistress, Owner.. makes it easier for others to understand what I do and how I live. For myself, I know who I am so I dont need the labels for myself.

DV



beargonewild -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 8:52:39 PM)

Exactly.



ResidentSadist -> RE: Label offence (1/3/2009 8:53:36 PM)

Labels (stereotypes) are a good thing and like labels on the cans of food in my cupboard, they help prevent me from biting into the wrong thing.  I love labels, they help me communicate.  In a social setting it lets me know what type of people and protocols to use.

I don’t find them offensive and can’t imagine why others would although I find myself at odds with a particular group here in the CM forums that are adamant labels are meaningless.  I always point out their hypocrisy because those very same people define and label themselves as male or female in order to communicate who they are.



IrishMist -> RE: Label offence (1/4/2009 6:14:40 AM)

quote:

Yet when you characterize someone as being ill, cold hearted, a bitch, etc you are still labeling that person according to that person's nature

That may be how you would react; but don't presume to think that I would do so in the same way.



beargonewild -> RE: Label offence (1/4/2009 6:54:25 AM)

Fuck...it don't take much thought to realize that you was referring to a general context and not towards a specific person let alone yourself.

"label" used as a noun - 1. a short word or phrase descriptive of a person, group, intellectual movement, etc.
2 - a word or phrase indicating that what follows belongs in a particular category or classification

"Label" used as a verb- to designate or describe by or on a label
2 - to put in a certain class; classify.

This is what I was basing my post on and in the above context, Since your name is also a label and you stated you hate labels so from now one we refer to you as a it? Sounds bloody good to me.



IrishMist -> RE: Label offence (1/4/2009 7:04:21 AM)

quote:

so from now one we refer to you as a it? Sounds bloody good to me

LOL Whatever the fuck floats your boat. [:)]



JustDarkness -> RE: Label offence (1/4/2009 7:05:00 AM)

There is a thread/post from a transgender female on here. Everyone wants her to tell what she was/is when she meets a guy.
With other words...she has to label herself upfront.
Now here we say...people are way more then a label.

So..I would say...we prefer to label others...but we don't like to be labeled



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