Why I don't participate in Organized Religion.

Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/3/2009 5:23:09 PM)
It is not because I dont believe, I just have this major problem with the simple fact that as far as Christian, Muslim, and Jewish people are concerned there is one book, or in the words of the Prophet Mohammad, "Allah will bless all the children of the book." That book is the old testament, since the Jewish don't believe the messiah has gotten here once already, the Muslims don't believe Jesus was the son of God, and the Christians cant agree on what the New Testament means. An Indian once said, "if there is one god, and one book, why do you all (whites) disagree with what it says?" An interesting point made by a man who had watched his world destroyed and limited by a group of invaders who preached "do unto others as you would yourselves." I am not sure but I do not believe God meant the golden rule to apply only to whites, or people of the same color of skin. Then you have one group of people saying that the children of Adam and Eve married each other, when it is made clear incest is a big taboo, and totally disregarding the passage, "and the sons of Adam took to wife the daughters of men.?" I can really rattle some cages with the next 'implied' point in the new testament, that being that Jesus was married. Under the law of Moses, to teach in the Synagogue, a man had to be married. Thus, the law of God demanded Jesus to be married, read Leviticus. For Jesus to teach in the Synagogue and not be married would have been blasphemous, and a major sin. Second, when Lazarus lay in his tomb dead, and Jesus on the way to the tomb called Mary, Lazarus' and Martha's sister to come forth from the house and join him, he was doing what only her husband could do while she was in mourning, command her to leave the home. Again, read Leviticus. Jesus' ministry would not have gotten the followers it had if he had blatantly disregarded the law of moses. Bring those points up to a christian and watch em backpedal and say that Christ was above the law. Well, the problem with that is if he had flaunted the law in that way, he would have been stoned to death. One book, and no body can agree on what it says. Thus the question is who is right and who is wrong? Personally, I feel you have to find your own way to your creator, Pagan, christian or desciple of Holly.... My opinion is that some guy got really bored being surrounded by yes men in heaven, made the universe and gave his creation free will. After that, at some point he sent junior down to get people straightened out and that went over like, well you know....

piratecommander -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/3/2009 5:37:46 PM)
The words "Organised" and "Religion" used consecutively (not thread specific) have always alarmed me. Why do we need to be "Organised" (sic) . I am very observant in my beliefs , I do not need a translator , coordinator or organiser to "assist" me in being me It costs me no money , I contribute in better ways. Pirate

KatyLied -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/3/2009 5:39:43 PM)
I'm pretty much with George Carlin on the entire religion thing. But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/3/2009 5:42:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 It is not because I dont believe, I just have this major problem with the simple fact that as far as Christian, Muslim, and Jewish people are concerned there is one book, or in the words of the Prophet Mohammad, "Allah will bless all the children of the book." That book is the old testament, since the Jewish don't believe the messiah has gotten here once already, the Muslims don't believe Jesus was the son of God, and the Christians cant agree on what the New Testament means. An Indian once said, "if there is one god, and one book, why do you all (whites) disagree with what it says?" An interesting point made by a man who had watched his world destroyed and limited by a group of invaders who preached "do unto others as you would yourselves." I am not sure but I do not believe God meant the golden rule to apply only to whites, or people of the same color of skin. Then you have one group of people saying that the children of Adam and Eve married each other, when it is made clear incest is a big taboo, and totally disregarding the passage, "and the sons of Adam took to wife the daughters of men.?" I can really rattle some cages with the next 'implied' point in the new testament, that being that Jesus was married. Under the law of Moses, to teach in the Synagogue, a man had to be married. Thus, the law of God demanded Jesus to be married, read Leviticus. For Jesus to teach in the Synagogue and not be married would have been blasphemous, and a major sin. Second, when Lazarus lay in his tomb dead, and Jesus on the way to the tomb called Mary, Lazarus' and Martha's sister to come forth from the house and join him, he was doing what only her husband could do while she was in mourning, command her to leave the home. Again, read Leviticus. Jesus' ministry would not have gotten the followers it had if he had blatantly disregarded the law of moses. Bring those points up to a christian and watch em backpedal and say that Christ was above the law. Well, the problem with that is if he had flaunted the law in that way, he would have been stoned to death. One book, and no body can agree on what it says. Thus the question is who is right and who is wrong? Personally, I feel you have to find your own way to your creator, Pagan, christian or desciple of Holly.... My opinion is that some guy got really bored being surrounded by yes men in heaven, made the universe and gave his creation free will. After that, at some point he sent junior down to get people straightened out and that went over like, well you know.... You know...I was (and am) a Christian...and I've attended churches most of my adult life (with the exception of the last 10 years, for reasons that will remain personal)...and the truth is...none of the above (OP) means shit. It's not an issue regards the religions...most are fabulous. Mormons take care of their own and prepare for the worst. Christian religion is very caring. Muslims have an absolutely beautiful script....Judaism is encompassing. Where I've found fault isn't with Christianity, Muhamedism (sp?), Judaism, Mormonism....or even Scientology.... It isn't the basis, or the religion itself...it's the parishioners. I don't have any issue with Christianity. (Just Christians).

Aneirin -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/3/2009 6:14:50 PM)
WHAT !!! PirateCommander on moderation Organised religion bothers me also, I have no problem with any belief, but when oragnisation is involved, the masses can be controlled

Sanguinarian -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/3/2009 6:16:20 PM)
I find myself agreeing with both jlf1961 and LookieNoNookie. Which is odd for me >. > One does have to find their own way, for their own faith. Blind obedience is a synonym for sheep. But in the religions themselves, I can't exactly find fault. These religions are very old. I am sure things and key points got lost along the way. But I also think that because those points got lost, more and more people wanted answers where there were none. Answers are seductive. They make things easy. So when people say that Christ was above the law, or things similar, it is just an answer to keep them from having to think for themselves. I also think because of that, it is, in many cases, the parishioners are the ones that corrupted the priesthood. Which in turn corrupted more of the parishioners. A vicious cycle it became. Then when there were threats to those simple, all encompassing answers, we got fanatics that would kill to protect what they thought was the right way. As it was said, I myself dont have any issues with Christianity, or any other religion. Just their followers.

bluesgun -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/3/2009 9:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied I'm pretty much with George Carlin on the entire religion thing. But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit! Absolutely right Katylied, check out his condensation of the 10 commandments. I stay away from religion myself, Grey Goose is cheaper and doesn't leave the nasty after taste. just my opinion Blues

marie2 -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/3/2009 9:14:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bluesgun I stay away from religion myself, Just a coincidence that you look like Jesus Christ?

Termyn8or -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/3/2009 9:55:32 PM)
Do you think that, taken very metaphorically, the story in Revelations is unfolding slowly ? If so, is it people making it happen or something else ? This would include people who subconciously make it happen, if that is assumed. T

Aszhrae -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/3/2009 11:04:02 PM)
If the Revelations are to be believed, they are unfolding very slowly. A lost tribe of the Jewish Faith returns from Ethiopia. Ten crowns of the beast, European Union, interestingly enough the British Isles has remain separate. But I have yet to figure out who is the child, but I am sure its country that everyone wants. Then of course there are the fields of Ama geddon which I believe is where human rights are being fought over as we speak and that the world is gathering. Then of course there is the theory that before humankind destroys themselves that the Lord (according to the Revelations) will stop it by forcing everyone in working together if the world is to survive. Since the Lord said he would not flood the world again. It only leaves one source. Space and there are quite a few world-killers flying around in space currently being tracked. I only know such things because I unfortunately spent some time going to Catholic school, up until I was 15, then it was Public school (better trade courses). Also having a friend that was a Jehovah's Witness helped to understand what was being said in the Revelations. Another interesting fact is that it also tells how a many of the old religions will reveal themselves. Druids, Wicca, Shamanism, Gnosticism, et cetera. Even in the slavic countries there is rumor of Mithraism being practiced again, but again this is just rumor. Another interesting item to bring into this discussion. A third book would be discovered. Everyone thinks that it was the Dead Sea Scrolls, but I remember reading some where about some alabaster tablets having been found in a cave in Upper Mongolia. Now I am not sure about this, but I do remember, the text inscribed upon the tablets predates cuneiform and it quite possibly might be Antedeluvian in origin. It would be really interesting to know if the finding was true and what exactly those tablets actually have recorded. Another interesting point is how there is a warning about the dragon that will rise from the east. I think, that might be Ch'na (China) since China has always stood against religion believing that people should only believe in Communism. China already has occupation of the spritual heart of the world, Tibet. India might also be considered the dragon, since it has been sometimes symbolized as a giant cobra, the Naga (which is often drawn to resemble a dragon). Another dragon is Quetzacoatl. Which isn't really dragon but a winged serpent and since the time when the Revelations were actually written, the only civilization that knew of the Americas around the same time was the Chinese, though I do not recollect which dynasty was responsible for starting its Rennaisance. Quetzacoatl has two forms, the winged serpent and a dragon. That is three sources for the dragon mentioned in the Revelations.

Vendaval -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/4/2009 2:04:58 AM)
My basic guideline for dealing with organized religion is that going for a wedding, funeral or other similar ceremony is fine as then I am paying respects to friends or family but attending regular services is not condusive to me feeling spiritual or enlightened or more at peace.

JustDarkness -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/4/2009 3:09:43 AM)
quote: The words "Organised" and "Religion" used consecutively (not thread specific) have always alarmed me. Why do we need to be "Organised" (sic) . In this world things are faster/officially recoqnised when more people are involved. It is hard to say 1 person has a religion. With so many people and all their thoughts..we would have millions of micro religions. And in the base..many are the same...so better put them in groups...and..lol..label them .

NorthernGent -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/4/2009 3:21:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanguinarian But in the religions themselves, I can't exactly find fault. The appeal of Christianity in the early days was, in part, the offer of salvation, and this remains the case today. I can find fault in the sense that it detracts from this life. Throw in treating life as a joint venture where the risks are shared with an invisible friend - fate, God's work etc - and you have minds boxed in by dogma. Religion most certainly has its uses, through the provision of order in particular, but surely in this day and age we can organise ourselves without resort to a deity. Katy's post is valid only in part. The church is an organisation driven ultimately by power, hierachy and vested interest, but I can think of one close family member who would agree with this sentiment while maintaining a strong attachment to Christianity and the idea of a god.

sirsholly -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/4/2009 3:24:06 AM)
quote: Personally, I feel you have to find your own way to your creator, Pagan, christian or desciple of Holly.... send cash and i'll pray for you

SilverMark -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/4/2009 3:32:08 AM)
Strange...I drifted away from the church as I became a young adult and now I do find some solace in it as I have become middle aged. I really try hard to stay away from the social aspects of the congregation, I am just not a bible study, bake sale sort of man but, I do enjoy the gospel and the sermons....to each his own. May be just that not being 22 anymore I am scotching my bet on that where you go when you die thing....Who knows....but, I do enjoy it.

jlf1961 -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/4/2009 4:28:22 AM)
Like Mark, I enjoy reading the gospels, and I do enjoy a good sermon. Occasionally you meet a man of the cloth, and he doesn't shove his ideas down your throat. I have always had questions, even when I grew up in the Catholic Church, I have read the bible a number of times, cover to cover, and always find something new.

colouredin -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/4/2009 5:02:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied I'm pretty much with George Carlin on the entire religion thing. But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit! There was a wonderful program on British tv over christmas called whos got gods millions, the presenter attempted to audit the major faiths. Each time he found out the yearly amount he compared it to some celeb, and he said wisely i think that the amount that international faiths have in comparison to the amount we spend on footballers and movies is very justifiable.

LaTigresse -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/4/2009 5:12:55 AM)
Personally I see modern day christianity more closely aligned with everything Jesus preached against rather than for. I think it is so evil and corrupt that he would be sickened by the whole thing. I also think the modern day bible is a travesty compared to what was originally written. So much so that I refuse to give it any credence. Anyone preaching their "one true way" religioun is better off very far away from me. And yet, my middle sister is coming to visit next week. The one that got angry and left in the middle of meal preparation because I had an old Aerosmith CD playing in the home stereo system. (apparently classic old rock music is evil). Wait until she sees the new, antique, pin-up photos in the guest bedroom! Her son will be blindfolded ASAP.

Rule -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/4/2009 6:33:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Under the law of Moses, to teach in the Synagogue, a man had to be married. I do not recall that Jesus ever taught in the Synagogue? (I have read the bible only once, in 1987.) quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Thus the question is who is right and who is wrong? I am right (well, nearly always), and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong (well, nearly always).

KatyLied -> RE: Why I don't participate in Organized Religion. (1/4/2009 6:50:45 AM)
quote: Each time he found out the yearly amount he compared it to some celeb, and he said wisely i think that the amount that international faiths have in comparison to the amount we spend on footballers and movies is very justifiable. Some religions definitely have an element of entertainment, so that sounds reasonable to me.

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