what's in their heads?

what's in their heads? (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 9:27:12 AM)
OK, this is going to come across as really stuck up, elitist snobbery, but then my friend and I who were discussing this fit that bill fairly well. The two of us have some pretty good debates on all sorts of things and it occurred to us that we are able to do that because of all the stuff we have learned about the world. Both of us meanwhile find that any attempt to debate such subjects with many of our contemporaries falls flat - they simply dont have the background resource of knowledge and awareness to participate. This usually results in frustrated anger and sometimes threats of violence. But then it occurred to us - if we have all this stuff inside our heads with which to reason and contemplate and make sense of things, and its stuff that's floating about all the while and occupying our minds, what is inside the heads of our less knowledgeable contemporaries and what occupies their minds? My friend proposed, on the basis that so many people we come across seem to have no spark of intellect in their eyes, that their thought processes are far more basic, and their words and deeds far more directed by instinctual reactions than reasoning. I meanwhile took a slightly more kindly interpretation, that their minds were occupied just as much but with far less information, their intellectual ability being not so great. ? E

PanthersMom -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 9:59:37 AM)
the averge IQ is around 90-100 points from what i've read over the years. people with average IQ's tend to seek less challenging intellectual activities, things that require more brain power can be very frustrating to most of them. not all, but a good portion of them. that is why television has become so popular and the quality of the programming is so poor. it occupies the masses, offers little intellectual challenge and allows advertizers easy access to plenty of potential buyers. they'd have to include ads in books if everyone read! that's not to say those of average intelligence don't read, but their choices of reading material tend to be less mentally stimulating. colleges are finding they have to turn to texts that read easier for the majority of students to be able to process the information. i don't remember where i read this information, it's been a good ten years, but i'm sure it's as relevant as it was then. even the way information is conveyed to students has changed, involving more electronic means of instruction. more of my classes are using visual sources to help students comprehend the material, both in the form of cd's to go along with the lessons and outside websites that offer additional instruction that allows the student to repeat lessons and get feedback. dealing with the educational needs of my four boys has introduced me to an array of information i never would have had access to before. the special needs educational community has taught me alot of this stuff along the way and how i could help my boys grow intellectually. when they were little it was reccommended i allow them to watch the pbs shows for toddlers because kids with adhd/autistic tendencies learn better by repetition. as they grew older it was advised to get them books and videos about things that interest them and to steer their television time towards programs of interest. now that they're older, i try to get them to watch the history channel, tlc, disovery and so on. it has helped. discussing the things they've seen on the programs has piqued interest in science, biology and history, not inane bs like alot of the kids they know. PM

TheHeretic -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 10:08:59 AM)
The lights are on, LadyE, but nobody is home. Stimulus/response, and emotion replacing reason. And they are outbreeding us.

Rule -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 10:23:58 AM)
Actually ordinary people have lots more in than head than intellectual people. In fact, in my model of the mind high IQ people (not so intellectual people - whether of low or high IQ - please note that this is not the same as intellectual people) often are rather stupid. Me, being a supergenius, I lack abilities in my head that other people often do have in their heads.

OneMoreWaste -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 10:33:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen But then it occurred to us - if we have all this stuff inside our heads with which to reason and contemplate and make sense of things, and its stuff that's floating about all the while and occupying our minds, what is inside the heads of our less knowledgeable contemporaries and what occupies their minds? TV shows, celebrity trivia, sports, bad music, illegitimate offspring (if I may be so bold as to add some stereotyping to the elitist snobbery [;)])

UncleNasty -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 10:37:00 AM)
Its that bastard Bill Clintons fault! Uncle Nasty (still on the mend)

kdsub -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 10:37:24 AM)
I just think LadyEllen...that what interests you and your friend may not interest others you are talking with. I'll bet they have interests that you would be considered to them less intelligent in a discussion. Butch

kotti -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 10:43:01 AM)
ever watch the ads on tv to see who is being marketed? the BMW, etc. type of ads are usually much more classy and have a different type of approach (expecting critical reasoning). everyday use items tend to have cute little creatures "entertaining" us, and so on. i find it amazing there are so many people willing to let their brains go mushy.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 10:58:15 AM)
Why do you automatically assume they're stupid, just because they don't seem interested in debating a particular topic? A lot of people don't like to debate, but I wouldn't automatically assume they're stupid. A lot of people aren't big on talking at all. I know I can't stand it when some windbag wants to drone on and on about something I could care less about.

DesFIP -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 11:22:05 AM)
My IQ is in the upper 130's but I still will not participate in debates. If it feels in the slightest that it is an argument or a competition, I'm gone. I find those things unpleasant in the extreme. Not everybody enjoys a win/lose position, some of us much prefer a win/win.

pahunkboy -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 11:40:40 AM)
well that madoff thief has cancer and they are saying he is too sick for trial. co-incidence?

LadyEllen -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 11:42:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Why do you automatically assume they're stupid, just because they don't seem interested in debating a particular topic? A lot of people don't like to debate, but I wouldn't automatically assume they're stupid. A lot of people aren't big on talking at all. I know I can't stand it when some windbag wants to drone on and on about something I could care less about. I didnt say they were stupid? It is beyond any doubt however that they have less information on which to draw in order to reason and understand the world. It interests me as to what they do think about and how they think about those things when they lack information, sometimes very basic information, about the subject at hand and/or other subjects which might help them otherwise make sense of things. E

slaveluci -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 11:51:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen It is beyond any doubt however that they have less information on which to draw in order to reason and understand the world. I think you're making a huge assumption here that just because "they" don't look like they have a "spark of intellect" in their eyes, that "they" are information-starved. An "intellectual" such as yourself...ahem...may feel all warm and fuzzy and superior to the man on the street but there definitely IS doubt as to how much information the average Joe/Jane has. Just because they don't sit around the coffee house droning on about how much info they have does not mean they're not informed. Certainly someone of such huge "knowledge" as yourself can condede that much, eh?[8\|] quote: It interests me as to what they do think about and how they think about those things when they lack information, sometimes very basic information, about the subject at hand and/or other subjects which might help them otherwise make sense of things. Just because "they" don't participate in your little "make ourselves feel smarter" debates, doesn't mean "they" lack even "basic information" or that they can't "make sense of things." Wow, I'm really surprised at you. Talk about a lack of information! Sounds like you have it. It must be lonely in your information filled, intellectually superior world................luci

T1981 -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 11:54:27 AM)
quote: ( quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic The lights are on, LadyE, but nobody is home. Stimulus/response, and emotion replacing reason. And they are outbreeding us. Heh - I'm 100% emotionally operated. That is my the base of all of my actions, the base of all my thoughts, and the core of where I react from absolutely anything with. It's always been that way with me. TANGENT, not related specifically Don't get me wrong, just because I feel like killing someone doesn't mean that I will, just because that's where the stronger aspect of myself lies, but for me, it - whatever "it" is - comes down to how it affects me emotionally. Human beings are built with both logic and emotion, too often people want to shut down one or the other, claiming one is superior, but neither is. Without each other engaged, a human life is flat, lacking affect, and rather empty. back on topic In response to the OP, I think people get distracted from learning things and then forget to remember that they're distracted, so they never get back to learning. There's so much out there to distract people - it can be hard getting to a place where you want to let go of that familiar white noise in your head to hear something else. I get the frustration, though, I feel that way sometimes, too.

LadyEllen -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 11:55:58 AM)
Indeed Luci - it is lonely; thats why I come here so often. There is simply no doubt they have less information to make use of. Sorry, but thats a fact. Whether the acquisition and retention of such information is actually of any merit whatever, thats a different matter. What we do note is that those to whom we refer do seem generally more content in life, aside from often bizarre entanglements that could have come from any soap opera script. The question is, what do they think about? The problem here, is that the sort of people who frequent these boards are unlikely to be able to answer, not being members of that particular part of the population. E

mc1234 -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 12:00:21 PM)
nevermind ...

came4U -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 12:18:22 PM)
quote: My friend proposed, on the basis that so many people we come across seem to have no spark of intellect in their eyes, that their thought processes are far more basic, and their words and deeds far more directed by instinctual reactions than reasoning. I meanwhile took a slightly more kindly interpretation, that their minds were occupied just as much but with far less information, their intellectual ability being not so great. Any street bumm with brain damage can likely get from point A to point B faster than your regular route and I bet he knows the best bridges to sleep under that won't leak onto his empty lil head. He likely knows the headline of the NY Times before you even turn for your alarm snooze too. There is intellect and there is street savvy. There is textbook smart and life smart. What goes on in one's mind is nothing but a clusterfk of ideas to another without similar interests. I might have helped in studies of this: http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/taylor.html but I don't know how to apply for or pay a phone bill. When you least expect it, sometimes the creepiest of brilliance shines in the eyes and out of the mouth of some of the most stupid people we might run into. The things that go on inside the skulls of any given peon on Jerry Springer may seem insignifigant to you, but to them it is important. They might not think about the status quo of world banking systems or the UN but I bet they are better at cooking jambalaya and corn fritters than I am. "one man's knowledge is another man's waste one man's patience is another man's haste one man's stupidity is another man's brains one man's freedom is another man's chains and it seems like there's a million sides to everything" partial lyrics by Peter Himmelmen, edited because I had misspelled the word apply. See what I mean by clusterfk?

MzMia -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 12:32:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP My IQ is in the upper 130's but I still will not participate in debates. If it feels in the slightest that it is an argument or a competition, I'm gone. I find those things unpleasant in the extreme. Not everybody enjoys a win/lose position, some of us much prefer a win/win. Well, I enjoy the political and philosophical discussions we have here. Actually, I have found with MOST of the regular posters here, that we learn a lot from each other. I don't see the win/lose situation, but then I have several here on my buddy list that I bump heads with. [;)] It is possible to chat, learn and debate with people with different points of views, without getting ugly,nasty and name calling. I adore almost every regular poster here, most of them rock. On another note, I also actually wonder what is in many people's heads. I have discussed the economy, the importance of getting your house in order with many acquaintances, and they still don't seem to have a clue. My own brother, I have been round and round with, I am not going into details. I can't think of a profound way of saying this. But there are people in the world that care about what is going on in the world, and things that WILL affect them. There are other people in the world that do NOT care that much about things that will affect them. I don't think you can MAKE people care about the world, and things that will affect them. I spent years trying to tell my brother, he has now lost everything and is living in a room. LadyE, there are people that care about some of the issues we discuss. There are also many people that prefer to not think or care about many issues, and don't want to think, learn or discuss world events,local issues, common sense issues, survival issues, housing issues, the economy, job situations, recession/depression, how to just make it and survive in life fucking issues.[:D] Actually, I think it is OKAY not to care, it is OKAY not to know what is going on around you. It is OKAY not to think, discuss or care about any damn thing, really.[:D] But if the world tends to kick you in the ass when it comes to issues, you SHOULD care, think, discuss, and learn more about, then you are the loser in life.

popeye1250 -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 12:35:21 PM)
Lady E, good thread and I think you're right. Many of the people who are going to colleges and uni's today have i.q.s of 90-100 "average." They get "degrees" in Psychology, Sociology, and Political Science and end up being waiters and waitresses. What do you talk about with people like that? How they did on tips last week? A sexy professor they wish they bonked in college? How much they have in student loans? I mean "DUDE!!!" I've found that some of the most interesting people to talk to are people who are well travelled. People who own their own businesses. (That's why I find you, CL, and a few others in here more interesting.) And I'm somewhat biased but Military people. In short, people who've actually gone out into the world and done something or made something. Also I enjoy talking to Engineers and Scientists. I don't know how to do the advanced mathematics that they use but I can understand the concepts that they talk about. If you want to write a book how can you if you've never done anything?

winterlight -> RE: what's in their heads? (1/4/2009 12:39:31 PM)
I am hearing impaired and because of that i don't get what people are saying which to them makes me extremely stupid. I read as much as i can. Currently reading John Adams and a few other books. I do NOT like to debate as i cannot hear all of what is being said. I don't get much information through my ears that other people with normal hearing do so i am way behind on many topics. If i tried to read everything i needed to i would never get other things done.

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