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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 6:11:11 AM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness
That is why I use coloured now or when I know...just the name of the person.


Would you consider to be colourless? Just think about it... not trying to nitpick here, but there are reasons why certain words have become symbols of times passed.



Good point. I guess I am colourless.
Doesn't sound so nice...does it? point made

(in reply to kittinSol)
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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 6:16:42 AM   
OmegaG


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First, calling someone who has physical challenges not able bodied can be demeaning, many will tell you that they are just as able as you, just different.

Second-- why do you do this?  Because you feel they are incapable of defending themselves?

Would you like it if a man jumped in to defend you when you are having a dispute with a male boss or coworker or an assocciate at a store because he feels that he is more able to talk for you because he is a man?

People of color have a voice, they can correct someone if they prefer different terminology-- we should not assume what they want to be called.  People with physical disabilities have voices, they can represent themselves, in fact, those that I know perefer if they were treated just like ever other "able bodied" person ( I learned this lesson the hard way when I tried to involve myself with a woman at work who has severe MS).

It is only the person who wishes to be offended that will when the person they are communicating with is trying to be inoffensive.

Basically, you can't please everyone all the time.

To go back to Iron Bear's initial example, it would seem that the person he was communicating with likes gender differention.  So he makes a note to use that terminology when speaking with her if he cares about her sinsibilities.  But just because she thinks like that in no way means that he should feel that all women think like that.

Basically, when someone is addressing a group of people and he refers to females in one terminology or another, I am not going to care if it's done with the intent of respect.  However on an individual basis (depends on the speaker as well as the listener) there are some terms that are nicer for me to hear then others and if a person is someone that wants to care about me, they will take the time to know just what each term means to me as an individual.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 6:20:14 AM   
colouredin


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Sure they can correct people if they want to thats fine, but I dont really like the them us attitude.

You are right almost every term will be found offensive by someone, but here thats the term we use. Its not one that I picked but from working with wheelchair users etc its the term they told me they preffered. If I have offended someone I appologise.

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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 6:21:01 AM   
OmegaG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness
That is why I use coloured now or when I know...just the name of the person.


Would you consider to be colourless? Just think about it... not trying to nitpick here, but there are reasons why certain words have become symbols of times passed.



The Chair of the Women of Color task forse worked in my office, and I asked her once about participation as they had a great speaker coming to their seminar-- her reply was that white women are women of color just like all other women, it wasn't her fault they excluded themselves.

However, it has become common to assume the "of color" means non-white.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to kittinSol)
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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 6:23:47 AM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

The Chair of the Women of Color task forse worked in my office, and I asked her once about participation as they had a great speaker coming to their seminar-- her reply was that white women are women of color just like all other women, it wasn't her fault they excluded themselves.

However, it has become common to assume the "of color" means non-white.


If it is not used as a distinction there would be no need for the term of colour it would simply be women.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to OmegaG)
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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 6:26:35 AM   
OmegaG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

The Chair of the Women of Color task forse worked in my office, and I asked her once about participation as they had a great speaker coming to their seminar-- her reply was that white women are women of color just like all other women, it wasn't her fault they excluded themselves.

However, it has become common to assume the "of color" means non-white.


If it is not used as a distinction there would be no need for the term of colour it would simply be women.


True enough, she was saying in her flippant way that as a white woman, I was not being banned from participating if I found something of interest.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 6:33:11 AM   
kittinSol


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Perhaps it's just me, but the term "of color" doesn't have the negative, racist connotations of the word "coloured".

"Coloured" (note: with a 'u') makes me think of segregation and of Apartheid - in certain African countries, the word is still used for those people whose ethnicity doesn't make them quite black enough to be called "Black". In my mind, the word belongs to the semantic weaponry of racism...



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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 6:37:11 AM   
OmegaG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Perhaps it's just me, but the term "of color" doesn't have the negative, racist connotations of the word "coloured".

"Coloured" (note: with a 'u') makes me think of segregation and of Apartheid - in certain African countries, the word is still used for those people whose ethnicity doesn't make them quite black enough to be called "Black". In my mind, the word belongs to the semantic weaponry of racism...




Hadn't thought of it in terms of Arpartied-- of course, in the South here we had the 10% rule which makes damned near everyone colored (and when I see the extra "u" I just think non- USA-ian (since Canadians like the "u" too))

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to kittinSol)
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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 7:04:36 AM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Perhaps it's just me, but the term "of color" doesn't have the negative, racist connotations of the word "coloured".

"Coloured" (note: with a 'u') makes me think of segregation and of Apartheid - in certain African countries, the word is still used for those people whose ethnicity doesn't make them quite black enough to be called "Black". In my mind, the word belongs to the semantic weaponry of racism...





Hmm yes..of color sounds gentler. But it does mean the same in the end.
Guess..we are back to our labels...
If you want to see bad in them..then they are bad. But they can be handy to graduate a difference.

Apartheid..is one of the words that worries me the most. Because afrikaans (south african language) is close to old dutch (brough there by the Boers ..farmers). Owning a girl of color and hearing that word..would make me feel weird.
But..that is just a mindset...but a shitty one.

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 1/5/2009 7:09:43 AM >

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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 7:08:28 AM   
kittinSol


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If a label is written with evil intentions, I cannot help but read it as such. It isn't my personal failure that a certain vocabulary was developed with the intention of furthering the cause of racism - and I choose to not use it, for that very precise reason. Each to their own  .



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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 7:38:10 AM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Often have I read comments regarding the negative impact of Political Correctness on society generally and on your Kink Life. It occurred to me that a thread right here would be a grand idea so all of us can vent not just on Political Correctness but particularly on it’s intrusion on the Wonderful World of Kink. If we can keep it mostly on the BDSM subject, I think (crosses claws on large paws and larger feet), that the Mods will allow this to remain here.


Recently I had a conversation with a long time acquaintance who is the epitome of Political Correctness in which she was adamant I must not refer to servants as such but as either serving persons or male servants and female servants. On the same vein she believed it was incorrect to refer to sub/slaves as such but to refer to them as male or female slaves and male or female submissives. So far she can’t fault the use of Dom and Domi unless it is the abbreviating of their names which she abhors and of course Master and Mistress is perfectly politically correct…

This made me think of a comedy skit I heard recently where some analy retentive politically correct twerp was decrying the nursery rhythm “Three Blind Mice” and stated emphatically it needed to be renamed: “Three Vision Impaired Rodents.


And so we devolve to a group of white folk discussing what persons of African descent (like that?) want to be called. How about... calling them people. Works for me and I'm not sure why an Austrailian person of African descent would be called African-American. Someone explain that to me.

As for the rest of the PC movement and PC jargon, it seems the result of a society that has too much luxury time in that it wrings its hands over what might hurt someone's feelings rather than what might actually be unlawful. I offend people sometimes. I am offended sometimes. It is the way of life. Perhaps, in this life however, I should form a group, picket, cry, produce a moving documentary and get some global petting going on over the fact that I could care less whether the couple across the road are straight, gay, lesbian, white or black, smokers, non-smokers, intellectually challenged or just challenged period.

What I do care about is whether or not they mind their own fucking business. I prefer those who do. I'm often quite offensive to those who do not. When it comes to BDSM topics and lifestyles, I see it pretty much in the same light. I don't go out of my way to advertise what I like or how I live. I don't expect anyone to bend over hackwards for me in terms of acceptance or approval. In that light, I don't force it upon them nor do I feel a need to "come out" to anyone. Those who need to know, know. Those I choose to tell, I tell. Among others, I try to be respectful of what their relationship entails, whether it be Dom/sub, Master/slave, sensation happy kinksters, or Mr. and Mrs. Happy Vanilla - which I suppose is a way of being somewhat PC. It ends at the basic respect for such things though and definitely ends when someone starts giving me a list of approved words from which I can choose when I decide to interact with others.

I suppose it can be an interesting debate. The flip side to a lot of debates though is that one side or the other want to choose how you live and how you think. If I'm not going to let them choose how I live, I certainly am not going to let them choose how I think. Basic respect is a good thing. Giving people space to be who they are is a good thing. Letting life devolve into an anal-retentive guilt trip where every word is agnonized over or chosen from a list isn't.

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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 7:40:19 AM   
IronBear


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Actually Omega lass, you made the points a few posts ago with the example that I could address women in general and treat them in a certain way and yet there will be those who get offended by it.. My mode of addressing and treating women was set down in protocols and etiquette in the Victorian era,  I open doors for them, pull out a chair when they are ready to sit, stand when a lady enters the room and remain standing until she sits or asks me (and others) to sit. With most ladies when I either greet them or take my leave I may kiss the back of their hand and always bow slightly. This is naught but good manners as I was taught as a youth, as were tipping my hat when meeting a lady outside. Instead of making a production of all this I am as unobtrusive as possible but even though I am often the target of strange looks, idiot comments and at times admiring glances from ladies who fondly remember the Men in their younger days, I will not back down and lower my behavioral standards. Aye I have been abuse by the very ladies I am paying these complements to and even had my face slapped and accused of being a male chauvinist for opening doors. 

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Iron Bear

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 7:47:08 AM   
kittinSol


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How idiotic of these women to be offended by kindness and civility. Besides... opening doors for others shouldn't be dependent upon the gender of the door opener. Women have hands too.

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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 7:49:50 AM   
OmegaG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Actually Omega lass, you made the points a few posts ago with the example that I could address women in general and treat them in a certain way and yet there will be those who get offended by it.. My mode of addressing and treating women was set down in protocols and etiquette in the Victorian era,  I open doors for them, pull out a chair when they are ready to sit, stand when a lady enters the room and remain standing until she sits or asks me (and others) to sit. With most ladies when I either greet them or take my leave I may kiss the back of their hand and always bow slightly. This is naught but good manners as I was taught as a youth, as were tipping my hat when meeting a lady outside. Instead of making a production of all this I am as unobtrusive as possible but even though I am often the target of strange looks, idiot comments and at times admiring glances from ladies who fondly remember the Men in their younger days, I will not back down and lower my behavioral standards. Aye I have been abuse by the very ladies I am paying these complements to and even had my face slapped and accused of being a male chauvinist for opening doors. 


I have never understood why some women choose to get their knickers in a twist when a man opens a door for them-- especially when the man is a stranger.  Of course if a woman requested that you never open a door for them and you continue to do so, then that is as disrespectful to their wishes as  you feel not opening a door is.

Now, you calling me "lass" is unoffensive and kind of cute.  However I can think of many men that if they chose to address me in such a manner it would be nothing but condescending.

The main problem I have with PC jargon I think is that there is no room for individuality, the people who insist on it are working on the assumption that we can all assimilate to one way of thinking and that they can make all the problems go away with just mere turns of phrases.


_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 8:24:34 AM   
sblady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

Hmm yes..of color sounds gentler. But it does mean the same in the end.
Guess..we are back to our labels...
If you want to see bad in them..then they are bad. But they can be handy to graduate a difference.

Apartheid..is one of the words that worries me the most. Because afrikaans (south african language) is close to old dutch (brough there by the Boers ..farmers). Owning a girl of color and hearing that word..would make me feel weird.
But..that is just a mindset...but a shitty one.


Hmm...not sure IronBear intended for this topic to become one of race, but oh heck...as derailment has already occurred, I'll add my two cents. 

JD, dear....I've seen no evidence that you'd feel weird owning a woman of color/colour, African-American (choose one or two).  In another post, you indicated that a person is human first, which is the way I see it.



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Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. Dalai Lama





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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 8:48:29 AM   
masterdstar


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Regarding the negative impact of Political Correctness  on the Life true but not as damaging as the NET.

Enjoy your wonder-filled day

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 9:09:33 AM   
beargonewild


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

I have never understood why some women choose to get their knickers in a twist when a man opens a door for them-- especially when the man is a stranger.  Of course if a woman requested that you never open a door for them and you continue to do so, then that is as disrespectful to their wishes as  you feel not opening a door is.

Now, you calling me "lass" is unoffensive and kind of cute.  However I can think of many men that if they chose to address me in such a manner it would be nothing but condescending.

The main problem I have with PC jargon I think is that there is no room for individuality, the people who insist on it are working on the assumption that we can all assimilate to one way of thinking and that they can make all the problems go away with just mere turns of phrases.



I just wanted to point out that IronBear isn't the only one who has faced this problem. I find it quite amusing when I hold a door open for a woman, regardless of their age. I do get a look of disgust which says "how dare you open the door for me." I see this as being polite and courteous in the manner which my parents taught me.
   I can understand when being PC is needed and it has it place in certain situations. What I can't understand is this need to be completely PC every minute of the day. Though I do try to be relatively PC yet I also admit that half the time I am not. When I find I am in a situation where I'm not, the other person will correct me and state their preference and that is what I abide by. When it comes to using the correct term to describe a person by skin color, I will ask what they prefer. Each person has their own definition of what they want used and try to be guided by that. Sometimes it isn't possible though I deal with that issue as it happens.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 9:42:04 AM   
Morniel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

The main problem I have with PC jargon I think is that there is no room for individuality, the people who insist on it are working on the assumption that we can all assimilate to one way of thinking and that they can make all the problems go away with just mere turns of phrases.



We have a winner -- That is EXACTLY the point of all the PC stuff.  It attempts to equalise and to remove individuality so that "no one is offended", but what actually happens is that nothing is celebrated, either.

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RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 10:07:57 AM   
NecesitesMe


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Right you are.  As a white male in the south (professional not a redneck), nothing would be hotter than to have a black female sex slave. 

I mean come on.  Think about it.  How taboo and hot is that for both male and female. 

Any hottie black girls  in Atlanta wanna play plantation? 

(in reply to JustDarkness)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Political Correctness & the Wonderful World of Kink - 1/5/2009 10:25:05 AM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sblady

Hmm...not sure IronBear intended for this topic to become one of race, but oh heck...as derailment has already occurred, I'll add my two cents. 

JD, dear....I've seen no evidence that you'd feel weird owning a woman of color/colour, African-American (choose one or two).  In another post, you indicated that a person is human first, which is the way I see it.





I know sexy black-lady ;)
It is just the history crap by times..that would give me a guilty feeling.
So come live closer and help me solve it :P

(in reply to sblady)
Profile   Post #: 40
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