RE: is it a rarity

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KnightofMists -> RE: is it a rarity (1/7/2009 5:52:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I think most dominants have a certain list of things which are important to them. And that once the sub does these things as habit, then the dominant is pretty laid back about the stuff that doesn't matter. Because if the dom needs to keep instituting rules just to show that he's in charge, then he's stuck following these rules also and paying attention to them instead of falling asleep watching tv after a long day which he might prefer. I can't imagine anyone keeps finding other hoops for the sub to jump through, without realizing very quickly that doing so means he has to stand there holding the hoop, to stretch a metaphor. Thank you for posting this... It wasn't something I considered... but It is indeed a very good point! and maybe that is why you see some relationships get frustrated... they beome slaves to the rules instead of actually enjoying and doing what they want as a relationship... which just might be alot of rules and protocals or it just might not be.

KnightofMists -> RE: is it a rarity (1/7/2009 6:00:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin The thing is what gets me (and yes I do keep banging on about it but it really really really gets me) Is the Dominants who think simply saying they are Dominant is enough. That all submissive desires the mere presence of a self proclaimed Dominant and will practiacally beg them to allow us to do everything for them without ever having to ask. Ok so im bitter. NO... I don't think it is enough! just to say that I am Dominant and more than it's enough to say I love you! They are just words that without supportive behaviors that validate those words.. the words just become Hot Air!. However... sometimes I think we do show that we are Dominant to the person or that we Love the person... BUT... sometimes we are not speaking the same language. If you recall the thread I started sometime back.. maybe you understanding where I am going with this. Sometimes.. things become normal.... and we forget why the behavior is there in the first place. Mindlessness to what is happening in our relationships can be rather damaging to the way we feel about our relationships.

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: is it a rarity (1/7/2009 6:10:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rabinyaZharovna <snipped for length> Nope... I just do the laundry... it has become engrained. Pile a few of these items up.. laundry, how I cook dinner, how I put things away etc... there are countless acts a day that I do without recognizing that I even do them. With that recognition sliding away, my sense of enslavement also slides. If I have to concentrate on those things in order to feel enslaved, well then I start feeling like I am really enslaving myself. Let's face it, lots of women in "regular vanilla" relationships do those things for their husbands so what exactly is setting this relationship apart from those? I start feeling more like a somewhat submissive wife with a kinky sex life than a slave who worhsips her Master. <snipped some more> It takes work on his part, it takes making certain he doesn't become complacent or lazy. It takes thought and effort. Laid back doesn't work for me, stickler, strong, on my ass, is what evokes my worship. My sense of enslavement is reactionary and is directly proportional to what he is actively pulling from within me. So if I have to focus myself on my sense of enslavement, well then I'm not really going to feel enslaved. I spoke with enough men and tried on enough relationships to realize that most men get a bit... complacent about it all. I have enough friends who are submissives and slaves that are continuously struggling with that downhill slide to think otherwise. What I have seen is alot of Dominants/Masters who don't understand that enslavement is not a set state of being, but rather one that has to be constantly evoked. The same is true of a deep sense of submission... atleast in my experience. The D side of the coin recognizing the importance of making certain it never feels simply ordinary and putting forth the great effort it requires to make certain there isn't a downhill slide, in my experience, is very rare. Of course this is all based on my inner workings and I have zero experience with women who are on the D side (So that may all be quite different) and countless people may write this off as all wrong and I'm pretty okay with that :) Just my two cents on it... feel free to chuck them out the window! rz{PF} I snipped some of your post, not because it wasn't a valuable read, but just to focus more on those statements above. In the original thread titled "grounding" down in the sub/slave forum, the OP said that she asked her dominant about something that would make her feel more grounded, and remind her that this relationship is different from all of her past relationships. What you wrote above also addresses that to a similar degree. Based on the responses and what gets posted pretty regularly around here from the s-types, some do need to be actively reminded either physically, mentally or emotionally (or all of the above) that they are submitting to the dominance/control/authority of another. I know in my case, we don't live together, and that makes it even harder for me to sometimes find my happy submissive headspace place..., especially when He goes through one of His really laid back spells. [:o] I get frustrated and feel taken for granted, the same way I did in previous vanilla relationships. Like you posted, I feel like I'm having to master myself, and I hate that feeling. Celeste's post also made me smile: quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble I totally get this. Talk is cheap. I don't want to 'hear' it.. I want to see it, feel it and be able to breath it in.

BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: is it a rarity (1/7/2009 6:13:51 PM)
Oh and before I forget, I'd like to thank KnightofMists for using my statement to start this discussion. I have really enjoyed reading the various responses and viewpoints! [:)]

MadRabbit -> RE: is it a rarity (1/7/2009 7:39:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aszhrae Well you would be incorrect in your judgment MR since that exact feeling is what I felt with my first mistress and present Miss when I first met them. Their presence alone had me respecting them almost immediately with little effort on their part to influence my behavior For me its not BS, it was and is a fact. I was disputing the rarity of it, not the fact that it exists. It might be a rare thing for you as an individual, but at the same time, finding a partner you connect with in the right way in any type of relationship is a rare thing. It's a perspective I hear a lot on message boards, written in essays and said in the Scene when I still used to go out. The "real dominants" are these rare mythical creatures that all the submissives are searching for like a pot of golden floggers and paddles at the end of the BDSM rainbow. However, the vast number of relationships out there leads me to conclude that many it's not the dominance that's rare, but just the right chemistry between two people.

KnightofMists -> RE: is it a rarity (1/7/2009 8:05:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit However, the vast number of relationships out there leads me to conclude that many it's not the dominance that's rare, but just the right chemistry between two people. Now this is something that I can agree with!

Aszhrae -> RE: is it a rarity (1/7/2009 10:07:19 PM)
I would have to agree also. Some people are aware of it immediately. For others it takes a little longer because they have to reason it all out. If a connection happens, logic has nothing to do it with it. I would believe that the only time reason and logic has anything to do with a connection its material based. If there is a connection such as a chemistry between individuals entering into a relationship, only external influences if allowed will split the relationship. Any relationship no matter who it is with, will have its trials. If the relationship is strong enough, binding enough, nothing will separate such a pairing or poly.

happypervert -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 9:19:42 AM)
quote: and the dominants who are sticklers for daily dominance displays are more the rarity. hmmm . . . this part has me thinking that submissives who are unable to do as they are told without daily dominance displays are the rarity, as it should be. If a submissive toes the line, then being a stickler daily isn't necessary and the relationship itself is a display of dominance.

colouredin -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 9:24:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: happypervert quote: and the dominants who are sticklers for daily dominance displays are more the rarity. hmmm . . . this part has me thinking that submissives who are unable to do as they are told without daily dominance displays are the rarity, as it should be. If a submissive toes the line, then being a stickler daily isn't necessary and the relationship itself is a display of dominance. But isnt doing as they are told as a result of being told to do something, wouldnt that be dominant? or am I missing your point. quote: However... sometimes I think we do show that we are Dominant to the person or that we Love the person... BUT... sometimes we are not speaking the same language. If you recall the thread I started sometime back.. maybe you understanding where I am going with this. Sometimes.. things become normal.... and we forget why the behavior is there in the first place. Mindlessness to what is happening in our relationships can be rather damaging to the way we feel about our relationships. I agree especially about the alnguage thing and I think thats one of the most frustrating thing in a relationship, both partners think they are 'doing' the right thing but neither sees it in the other. Its like banging your head against a brick wall because no one can make the other understand whats wrong. I think its easy to let it carry on, you make excuses for your feelings and yes I do think it can be damaging not only to how we feel about our relationship of the time but also ourselves and future relationships.

CreativeDominant -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 1:27:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re Blanket reply: But first, Padraig, nothing I am about to say applies to you. I think it takes an incredible amount of self awareness to be able to look at a failed relationship and take responsibility for your part in it. Couple of points to set the stage: 1. The comment is specifically talking about a Master/slave relationship (thus the reason for using M/s and not some other abrieviation). Which means that all of you that are purely subs don't really have any input to this. Perhaps reading the actual question would help your confusion in the future. I am not Knight so I cannot speak for him and I am not brnaughtyangel so I cannot speak for her but I am going to venture out onto a limb here and venture a guess that both of them were addressing D/s relationships along with M/s relationships. Knight, br? Correct me if I am wrong here, please. Anyway, that means that even those that are purely submissive can answer. Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose. quote: 2. The original post was also talking about a RELATIONSHIP (which kind of implies that there are needs on both sides of the kneel). For those of you who don't understand this, go back to trolling for the 18 year old peice of fluff. If you are an 18 year old peice of fluff, have fun with these doms ;) So, to start the ball rolling...... To suggest that the dominant parner attempting to meet legitimate relationship needs of the slave somehow transfers control of the relationship to the slave or makes him/her less in control is just stupid. Go challenge a bag of hammers to a game of scrabble. I don't recall seeing anyone...including myself...state that meeting legitimate needs of the slave/submissives transfers control. What I do recall seeing is that for some submissives/slaves, they want those overt displays of dominance more than some other submissives/slaves do. What I do recall seeing is that for some dominants, they don't wish to engage in constant displays of dominance but they do keep in mind that it is a D/s or M/s dynamic on top of being a relationship and do display dominance in all kinds of ways, several of them given as examples by myself and other dominants. While the examples given are somewhat blatant...to make a point, I believe...there are plenty of examples that are not. quote: Even M/s relationships are just that...relationships. They require work. On both parties. So when I hear "Once I have my girl trained to do things the way I want, I really don't have to expend any more effort because I'm the dom. I can be really laid back because she is going to long to serve me no matter what.", I translate that to mean: I am lazy and complacent. I do all the work at the beginning to enslave her and then I expect her to maintain that feeling without any effort on my part. She is really just a mobile pussy that I can fuck at will, she will clean and cook and serve my every whim, but I don't have to put anything into it.....What a great gig! Now, let's take a trip to the real world and try to count how many relationships have worked for any length of time with that as the basis. I don't care if it's kinky or vanilla....no effort = failure. No argument with this point. quote: As a final thought untill I answer the inevitable return salvo....just ordering around or being bossy does not equate to dominance. Once you fall into a routine, it quickly becomes routine, then stale and finally boring. One or the other will seek new excitement. Perhaps it is because finding two compatible people that are willing to put the work in is so rare, that there are so many serial relationships...both by the members of this site and in any kinky realm. No argument but I will say that there has to be some understanding up front about what people consider to be "too routine". I would not seek out a submissive who has to have something "new" every morning, afternoon and evening. I would not seek out a submissive who has to have a break in the routine every day or every other day. Life...whether we like it or not...is mainly about routine. Yes, there are variances along the way...not every day at work is the same and not every day in a relationship is the same as the day before. Don't get me wrong...I am not arguing here to be nit-picky but I have been with someone who expected something to "happen" almost every day. I got wore out trying to make that happen. I tend to view someone like that in the same manner as I do a child with A.D.D....they can be very lovable but they can also be very frustrating because of their quick boredom levels. I understand working at a relationship and I love the thought of doing it with someone who gives as much in return but it has to be at compatible levels and at a level that we can both live with. This is why I stated that the micromanagement style...as an example---NOT saying that anything beyond my style is micromanagement...doesn't work for me. quote: And before you accuse me of being arrogant and judgmental....Let me just say "Guilty." I AM better than you. I think right now would be a good time for me to just say to myself..."shut up, C.D."

NuevaVida -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 1:54:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re And before you accuse me of being arrogant and judgmental....Let me just say "Guilty." I AM better than you. Wow. Arrogant and judgmental were not the words that came to mind, actually.

colouredin -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 2:09:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re Couple of points to set the stage: 1. The comment is specifically talking about a Master/slave relationship (thus the reason for using M/s and not some other abrieviation). Which means that all of you that are purely subs don't really have any input to this. Perhaps reading the actual question would help your confusion in the future. I didnt notice this before, but now I have ive gotta say I am pretty sure that KoM didnt mind us lowly subs answering. Also as part of the TOS all people are allowed to post anywhere on the boards so long as they adhere to the rules of the forum.

Ph0enixF1re -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 2:30:06 PM)
CD, KoM comes from a particular veiwpoint, but the quote is specific to M/s. Sure anyone can post, but actually being on topic in the context of the original question would be nice from time to time. The poster that doesn't take the time to understand the context could at least admit it. Maybe something like "Hey, I know this isn't what we are talking about but I like to see my words in print so I'll just post something vaguely related and no one will notice." Although laziness is probably just as common in the D/s relationship (and I'm talking about the dom's laziness) the submissive probably doesn't have the same requirements as the slave. The point being that you cannot "enslave" yourself, it has to be actively done by the Master. "That is where my head was going with it also. IF, the dominant has to keep performing their dominance to keep the submissive performing, then who is really the one running the show?" The above quote is hard to misinterpret. And it was direct response to another post in the same vein, so I guess someone did suggest it. Lastly, yes, there should be some expectation up front as to what is expected in the relationship, from both sides. If the sub/slave doesn't need that constant pressure, fine. But going into the relationship with someone who does, or expects to be enslaved, without understanding that you (the Dom) will have to work at it and not just "lay back" is dishonest to both parties. NV: Wow, that really stung!!!!!

Ph0enixF1re -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 2:31:57 PM)
Sure, post till your heart's content. Still doesn't mean it actually is anything more than obliquely related to the actual question taken in context.

colouredin -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 2:32:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re Although laziness is probably just as common in the D/s relationship (and I'm talking about the dom's laziness) the submissive probably doesn't have the same requirements as the slave. The point being that you cannot "enslave" yourself, it has to be actively done by the Master. Note probably, thats the point each realtionship is differant, I as a submissive related to what he was talking about, (also having been in M/s and D/s relationships for me its just whatever word we feel comfortable with at the time it didnt change what I am like in a relationship I just like the word submissive better) ed to add, I believe that most responses were related the the question in context, if a person hadnt experianced what was being discussed in the quote then they wouldnt have replied. Its not about ignoring the OP. If I were to include everyone when asking a question I would have to use a hell of a lot of slashes

Aszhrae -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 2:43:44 PM)
quote: Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose. quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re And before you accuse me of being arrogant and judgmental....Let me just say "Guilty." I AM better than you. Wow. Arrogant and judgmental were not the words that came to mind, actually. Actually the one that struck a nerve with me was this one by CD, Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose. But the above one as well. Holier-than-thou attitude with the additional arrogance by another of like mind.

xxblushesxx -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 2:48:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aszhrae quote: Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose. quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re And before you accuse me of being arrogant and judgmental....Let me just say "Guilty." I AM better than you. Wow. Arrogant and judgmental were not the words that came to mind, actually. Actually the one that struck a nerve with me was this one by CD, Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose. But the above one as well. Holier-than-thou attitude with the additional arrogance by another of like mind. I doubt CD will appreciate being cast with that particular aspersion...

CreativeDominant -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 2:49:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re CD, KoM comes from a particular veiwpoint, but the quote is specific to M/s. Sure anyone can post, but actually being on topic in the context of the original question would be nice from time to time. The poster that doesn't take the time to understand the context could at least admit it. Maybe something like "Hey, I know this isn't what we are talking about but I like to see my words in print so I'll just post something vaguely related and no one will notice." But if you will take note, Phoenix...the originator of that quote---brnaughtyangel---came here and explained what she meant by it and did not confine it to an M/s relationship. Just sayin'... quote: Although laziness is probably just as common in the D/s relationship (and I'm talking about the dom's laziness) the submissive probably doesn't have the same requirements as the slave. The point being that you cannot "enslave" yourself, it has to be actively done by the Master. Don't kid yourself, Phoenix. You...the generic you...could be the best Master in the world and if the slave does not wish to be enslaved to you BY you, then it is not going to happen. In this, just as in any other relationship, BOTH parties have to actively work at it. Just as in D/s, a dominant can be as good a dominant as any other male/female dominant around and if a particular submissive does not wish to submit their will...does not feel that chemistry...or does not work as hard at it as the dominant, then their submission is not going to happen either. quote: "That is where my head was going with it also. IF, the dominant has to keep performing their dominance to keep the submissive performing, then who is really the one running the show?" The above quote is hard to misinterpret. And it was direct response to another post in the same vein, so I guess someone did suggest it. Note the key phrase "has to KEEP performing". I also believe that it was used in reference to ACTS of dominance but even if it was not, who determines what shows dominance or not? If I have set up a framework for the D/s dynamic that we have both agreed to...if my dominance is always there, sometimes quietly and sometimes overtly but never NOT there, to the extent that she knows she can turn to me with anything whether it be guidance or control or communication or what-have-you...if that dominance appears to others to be good dominance and while feeling like "responsibility being met" to the dominant while feeling "normal and routine and unexciting" to the submissive who then acts out or pouts or begins to disobey or begins to bitch to others---perhaps while not communicating to her dominant that she feels there's a problem or even while communicating it to the dominant but not liking his answer so her behavior continues---then who IS trying to "run the show"? quote: Lastly, yes, there should be some expectation up front as to what is expected in the relationship, from both sides. If the sub/slave doesn't need that constant pressure, fine. But going into the relationship with someone who does, or expects to be enslaved, without understanding that you (the Dom) will have to work at it and not just "lay back" is dishonest to both parties. Agreed but again, I did not see anyone...including myself...state that they don't feel that there should never have to be any work. There's nothing wrong with being "laid back" when you have been honest about it to others...hell, like I said, I consider myself fairly easy to get along with. I am sure there are those, some of them probably right here on this board or at least who are collarme members, who would disagree. Compatibility comes into play here as does communication AND reasonable expectations. quote: NV: Wow, that really stung!!!!!

persephonee -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 3:01:21 PM)
[sm=popcorn.gif]

IronBear -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 3:15:39 PM)
[sm=fight.gif] This is getting better than the NFL Play Offs! [sm=beatdeadhorse.gif] I'm reading some jolly good discussions with points being argued succulently with vigour. It is also a very good example where sometimes people don't read everything and like those who only hear the first few words, shut off and make uip their own minds what was being said.. I point no finger at anyone here just making a comment that this thread is demonstrating how much we can read some text and see what was written so differently and yet ------- There are an awful lot of folks get pissed off when someone does write clearly and covers all bases of what theyare saying, but in the process they end up with an essay. It goes to show that you can't have everything or please everybody all the time.. [sm=passthelube.gif]

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