RE: is it a rarity (Full Version)

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Ph0enixF1re -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 4:33:17 PM)

CD,
We may be arguing the same side of the coin, hard to tell since you are defending others, not your own viewpoint.

Who determines dominance?  The Sub.  No question.  If they don't submit, then you aren't dominant (to them, that isn't a statement about your personality).  If they become bitchy and intractable, you have not been effective in your control.  Perhaps they are uncontrolable, but you (the dom) are still the one who failed.  You were unable to draw from them what you wished.  You may reassert yourself and regain control, but something may still be lost.

And although you (and I mean you) may be laid back and can still maintain control, if you read the vast majority of posting from the sub/slave side, "laid back" basically is code for "my Master/Dom is too lazy to put in the work required to maintain this relationship on the basis that it was laid."

For the others:  Perhaps adding "holier than thou" to my tag line would help alleviate the confusion.  Apparently "I AM better than you." wasn't clear enough.



NuevaVida -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 4:41:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re


NV:  Wow, that really stung!!!!!




Pfft, it wasn't meant to.  It was more of a self amusement sort of comment.  Keep posting, I'm enjoying this!



happypervert -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 4:42:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

and the dominants who are sticklers for daily dominance displays are more the rarity.


hmmm . . . this part has me thinking that submissives who are unable to do as they are told without daily dominance displays are the rarity, as it should be. If a submissive toes the line, then being a stickler daily isn't necessary and the relationship itself is a display of dominance.


But isnt doing as they are told as a result of being told to do something, wouldnt that be dominant? or am I missing your point.


Well, I suppose I wasn't clear with my point -- the contrast between being laid back vs being sticklers for daily displays of dominance struck me as meaning some dominants exercise power frequently with reprimands, orders, etc. while the laid back types aren't exercising power at all, and that got me to wondering why someone would have to exercise power like that daily. If a dominant doesn't need to or want to exercise power, then the relationship can be laid back while still having a daily D/s routine because the submissive is already acting on previous instructions.

Sure, the option is there to exercise more power and some might like doing that every day, but a power dynamic can be alive, well and active whether I actively display dominance or not.



NuevaVida -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 4:42:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

quote:

Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose.
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re

And before you  accuse me of being arrogant and judgmental....Let me just say "Guilty."  I AM better than you.


Wow.  Arrogant and judgmental were not the words that came to mind, actually.



Actually the one that struck a nerve with me was this one by CD,

Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose.

But the above one as well.

Holier-than-thou attitude with the additional arrogance by another of like mind.



I doubt CD will appreciate being cast with that particular aspersion...


Particularly since she wasn't quoting CD while criticizing him. Hard to say where her issue with him is.



xxblushesxx -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 4:45:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

quote:

Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose.
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re

And before you  accuse me of being arrogant and judgmental....Let me just say "Guilty."  I AM better than you.


Wow.  Arrogant and judgmental were not the words that came to mind, actually.



Actually the one that struck a nerve with me was this one by CD,

Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose.

But the above one as well.

Holier-than-thou attitude with the additional arrogance by another of like mind.



I doubt CD will appreciate being cast with that particular aspersion...


Particularly since she wasn't quoting CD while criticizing him. Hard to say where her issue with him is.



He's a guy.[8|][:-]



BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 4:58:38 PM)

Well crap, I had to go back and actually look at what I originally wrote to figure out why anyone [8|] would think it was exclusionary. 

To the "I AM better than you" guy, when I said M/s relationship, that's because this is my dynamic.  I didn't feel the need to describe the long list of relationship dynamics that are out there. 

And even though I am not the originator of this thread, I am the originator of the quote, and I would never, ever, ever act as though anyone of any orientation or in any relationship dynamic, couldn't have something to offer to a discussion.

I have actually learned a great deal from reading the wide variety of viewpoints expressed here, which is what I love about this place.

Soooo, not that my opinion matters, but party on dudes!....... sowwy, I watched Bill and Ted again recently.  [;)]



NuevaVida -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 4:58:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

He's a guy.[8|][:-]


Oh yeah.  [8D]



Vendaval -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 5:02:40 PM)

I would say that there is no way to really know whether most M/s or D/s relationships are more flexible or more strict.  Not everyone who lives in these types of relationships necessarily shares what goes on in their households or communicates with others about it at all. 



quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
"I have a feeling that most of us are in relationships with dominants who are more laid back about the whole M/s dynamic, and the dominants who are sticklers for daily dominance displays are more the rarity."



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 5:04:23 PM)

 Ph0enixF1re,  it is a shame that your communication style, and attitude, deflects from what are otherwise interesting points.  I might even agree with several of the points you made, despite the manner in which you presented them. 

There is a difference, in my mind, between a lazy, apathetic partner, and a laid back one.  In fact, I happen too believe that there are very workable balances in the areas between apathetic and posturing, no matter what flavor of dynamic works for those in the relationship. 

That said, I do think it can be very easy to fall into a routine that can settle into apathy, just as I blieve it is possible to shift precariously in the other direction where rules and protocol can come off as a dominant posturing.  The rarity, as I've experienced it, is finding that balance and consistently maintaining it.

In closing I would like to say this. 

I AM, is sufficient for me.  Anything else, is just posturing - in this girl's humble opinion. 



Ph0enixF1re -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 5:16:36 PM)

Not really a shame,
I have found that being antagonistic and blunt (read rude) weeds out the ones that simply echo.  It does tend to generate real discussion and not the usual "Blah, blah, blah" that is so common.

And the fact is: deep down, most of us believe we are better, I'm just willing to admit it and throw it in the collective face.

We even have gotten a few real comments about laziness vs laid back, working on both parties, and recognizing what both parties need.

Much more interesting than "Well, I'm really laid back."  or "I just can't take that kind of micromanagement" and blah, blah, blah.



SirJohnMandevill -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 5:40:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

So what are your thoughts of the following comment

"I have a feeling that most of us are in relationships with dominants who are more laid back about the whole M/s dynamic, and the dominants who are sticklers for daily dominance displays are more the rarity."



I can only speak for myself: I'm most definitely the former type. When we're together, I don't want my submissive lady bound (no pun intended) by ritual. I want the submission and service that comes from her heart. During the last year, this approach to D/s has worked extremely well for both of us.
 
[sm=abducted.gif] Les (Purveyor of Fine, Handcrafted Kink)



Aszhrae -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 5:42:31 PM)

quote:

Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose.


Not true. Sure I am having difficulties but when the above quote was posted, it struck a nerve.
Who the hell does he think he is to state such a thing. If he wants to limit where people post, telling him to stay in the Gorean Lifestyle where their kajira are limited by voice and where the men can compare their dick sizes.
If a male dominant thinks he is so much better than the rest of us, as Ph0enixF1re, has obviously stated that he is, why has he not ascended and used his ego to create a world where he is the all mighty unto himself.
Not all guys I have a problem with just a few that I would like so very much to put into IC. They need to remember something about their own physiology, "their testicles are on the outside of their bodies." [quote from the show Bones]

Why can't more guys be like SirJohn or Orion, hell, even Padriag is more charming. At least their not trying to shove their superiority down anyone's throat.



WinsomeDefiance -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 6:07:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re

Not really a shame,
I have found that being antagonistic and blunt (read rude) weeds out the ones that simply echo.  It does tend to generate real discussion and not the usual "Blah, blah, blah" that is so common.


Hello Ph0enixF1re, thank you for replying to my post. 

To answer yours, it is my belief that needless antagonism misdirects focus from any valid points made in a debate, and redirects attention, instead, upon ego.  It just seems counter-productive.  Unless ones intent is to draw attention to ego.  While blunt and to the point is certainly appreciated, I don't tend to consider rude to be an effective communication skill, as a rule.

WinD



Ph0enixF1re -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 6:14:37 PM)

Noted.



Ph0enixF1re -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 6:21:09 PM)

Being male certainly plays a role, as does being dominant, but believing I am better than you is the human condition.  If you don't believe this at a most basic level, then you are just one of the sheeples (a good descriptor that someone else on here uses.  I would give credit (possibly Orion) but I don't know for sure). 

We are not all equal, that is a lie.  Therefore some must be better.  If that offends your utopian world where we should all get along, I am filled with pangs of regret (insert sarcasm).



NuevaVida -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 6:21:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

quote:

Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose.


Not true. Sure I am having difficulties but when the above quote was posted, it struck a nerve.
Who the hell does he think he is to state such a thing. If he wants to limit where people post, telling him to stay in the Gorean Lifestyle where their kajira are limited by voice and where the men can compare their dick sizes.
If a male dominant thinks he is so much better than the rest of us, as Ph0enixF1re, has obviously stated that he is, why has he not ascended and used his ego to create a world where he is the all mighty unto himself.
Not all guys I have a problem with just a few that I would like so very much to put into IC. They need to remember something about their own physiology, "their testicles are on the outside of their bodies." [quote from the show Bones]

Why can't more guys be like SirJohn or Orion, hell, even Padriag is more charming. At least their not trying to shove their superiority down anyone's throat.


Attitudes like the one that upset you reflect the antithesis of what you (and I, and a gazillion others) admire.  Those who you admire do not need to tell the world of their greatness because it shows in their words, demeanor and actions.  They do not stand on mountain tops beating their chests because they have humility.  It truly is not worth feeling riled over the silliness of others.  Amusement, pity, and a touch of indifference seem more aptly suited.  It's a message board.  Of course anyone can post where they want.  Those who believe otherwise would do better taking it up with the owners of this site rather than appoint themselves as cyber hall monitors, although I doubt they'd get anywhere that way, either.

Seriously, let it roll... [;)]



NuevaVida -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 6:31:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re

Being male certainly plays a role, as does being dominant, but believing I am better than you is the human condition.  If you don't believe this at a most basic level, then you are just one of the sheeples (a good descriptor that someone else on here uses.  I would give credit (possibly Orion) but I don't know for sure). 



"Sheeple" is a well known term that has been on political talk show circuits for years.  Michael Savage claims he coined the term, although I don't know for sure.  I first heard it on his radio show in the late 90's, though.  It's a good term.  You'll see it on the boards here from time to time. 

"Better than" is subjective, however.  There are many philosophies which view "better" differently than you do.  There is no universal qualifier.  Making assumptions of betterment seems silly to me but to each their own.  We can only be ourselves, and others will form their opinions as they do.



IronBear -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 7:53:14 PM)

Believing that "I are the best" or more crudely, "Better then you" is one technique used to help some one with a low self esteem rise above their perceived levels to attain greater things in live and esteem. Boxers have this self belief even when the odds are against them for it takes one punch to turn a fight around. Boxers who don't have it, are the ones who show more losses than wins. few top sports men will however sprook "I am better then you" in public for they know it is possible they will be defeated. Those who do this and few and it becomes part of their psychological war on opponents (Casius Clay was an expert) however he backed his words with action and so the proof was there for all to see. Realy great Men and Women have no need to utter a word and go abpout their business allowing their actionsto write history for them.

Just a thought no more and no less..



MasterFireMaam -> RE: is it a rarity (1/8/2009 11:23:51 PM)

I know I'm weighing in very late, but...

My circle of friends and support in the lifestyle are all, or almost all, 24/7 Master/slave relationships. To us, this means the authority structure is always in place. So, to me, it doesn't seem to be a rarity because this is what I surround myself with. However, I can see where the person who made the quote is coming from: if you look at everyone who calls themselves Master/slave rather than at just the smallish but active real-time community that follows the 24/7 thing, it might certainly be true that keeping the dynamic alive at all times might be a rarity.

I have to admit that I don't find every self-identified Ms relationships to actually be Ms in my eyes. For me, the core of what Ms is: a transfer of authority inside an agreed upon structure. I simply don't see how a structure can be a maintained properly if it isn't in place at all times. But, this is just me. In the end, unless I'm asked to judge a contest, its not up to me to judge other relationships...and I'll call whomever whatever they choose to be called, simply out of my personal code of ethics.

Master Fire



rabinyaZharovna -> RE: is it a rarity (1/9/2009 4:35:14 AM)

Brnangel~

Thank you for your reply. Sometimes you (general you) post something and wonder if it resonates with anyone or if you are just sort of spittin' in the wind. :) Thanks for letting me know it struck a chord.
rz{PF}



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