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When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 8:23:51 AM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		After a particularly heavy play session last month, and some considerable time thinking about it, I finally talked to my husband about the possibility of fisting. It had been a hard limit for years and years, but after I had been required to take 4 fingers into myself during a session,  I realized that it was something that I was very curious about. (Safely and sanely, I promise folks - I have no interest in rushing this one).

This is really the first hard limit that I've had really shift catagories, and I'm left wondering what this means for the rest of my hard limits - if those will change eventually, and about the emotional and mental process that someone goes through when their limits change.

I'd really love to hear other people's experiences with limits changing and how they approached it/resolved it for them.


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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 8:32:53 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Seems to me like a normal growth pattern whoich I suspect many here will or have experienced over time when the time, place and partner is right. 

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 8:44:52 AM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		That does seem to be the case! I'd heard of this happening, and I'd had a little bit of experience in this as we worked through some initial blocks (such as, in the beginning I refused to have belts used on them due to a bad experience) but this is the first time something big, well, big to me, has shifted. I guess I'm not so much scared of what's going to happen or whatnot, it's just very surprising for me.

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 8:47:18 AM   
GabrielleSlave


Posts: 616
Joined: 9/20/2007
From: in servitude
Status: offline 		When i first met Master i had tickling as my hardest limit to the point of it He had even done it accidentally, i would have kicked Him out the door lol!  Now though, He can playfully tickle me a bit without any danger to His various body parts...  i also had a hard limit of needles, but since my tattoo i have begun to reassess that one too... 

i think it is natural to have hard limits shift from time to time, just as your opinions might change on style of dress, type of food etc  It is all part of a natural evolvement and progression that we as humans surely all go through.  Also, i think that my hard limit list was made up of things i thought i didn't want to happen, but didn't know for sure as i had never done them lol!  The more experience i get, the more i change and the more i can handle - due to confidence in Master and also due to some extent in myself.

gabrielle x

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"There is no such thing as liberty. You only change one sort of domination for another. All we can do is to choose our master."
D. H. Lawrence

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 8:51:51 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		One of the secret of being a Master or Mistress of a slave is to spend the time to learn all about him or her. To watch and to listen so that in time you will know him or her better than they can imagine and perhaps better than they know themselves. Which this is attained it is not too hard to test the limits, analyze them and to encourage them to be moved. 

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 8:53:30 AM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		LOL - I don't think I could stand tickling right now! I'm so much better at accepting the harsher sensations of play that I think tickling would be overload! (Which might, actually, make it fun to try out!) The part about more experience making it easier for you to handle more makes ALOT of sense - my pain tolerance has increased quite a bit in the last few months, and so that is another aspect of the limits shifting as well.

And it has been, in a great deal, to my husband really learning how to read me and my reactions - so the shifting of these limits also speaks to how he's growing and learning as well. Good to know!

It's very reassuring to hear that this is all very normal! Thank you guys so much for that!

< Message edited by T1981 -- 1/7/2009 8:55:36 AM >

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 8:53:41 AM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline 		I've definitely had my limits shift as I've experienced more. I have hard limits, which are on my 'immoral' list and won't shift.  But I'm open to many different activities I'd never have wanted to even try before.

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 9:35:29 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I see hard limits as something that is against  your moral/ethical  or emotional code.  Physically, there are things I have no interest in, those are not hard limits.  Fisting.. is on the list of HELL NO, lol ....but when it comes down to physical I know I am pretty much going to go with the flow.  It is not a hard limit, but it is a limit.
Playing with females.. that is my hard limit. There is no crossing it without someone .. or two ending up broken and battered on the floor.
It is against my moral code, and my emotional trigger points.
Personally, I don't know how people put physical play as part of a hard limit, but that may be colored by inability to control things when I am in subspace

Things I consider limits are things like, fisting, roman, whipping..
Things I consider hard limits are things like, playing with women, roman, beastiality..

The limits stretch depending on who I am with, how long I have known them, and how much desire there is at the time.

My hard limits are untouchable.  Non changing. 

But... I know me well. 
Kyst


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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 9:43:02 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I see this in a manner of a person gaining a better understanding of themselves and a shifting on how they re-evaluate their own boundaries. Much of this grows from a person wanting and pushing themselves past their own fears and start to see that many of our personal fears are simply based upon us not understanding. I look at myself and where my mindset was 3-4 years ago and saw how much of my limits regarding many aspects of WIITWD was based on my own ignorance. Back them my list of hard limits ranged from needle play, Master/slave dynamics to whipping and cage confinement. I found by forcing myself to learn about things, talking to people I respect and reading, my limits are less rigid. Some still remain though many have either been erased or have now moved to my list of things to experience.

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That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 9:59:01 AM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		These are all really good things for me to take into consideration and keep in mind - I like the idea of having "hard limits" and then "limits" - things that I find morally wrong. Very useful!

And I'll take that as a compliment, Bear, thank you! It's only been in the last year that we've really begun exploring the D/s of our lives, and only in the last, say, six months that we've been interested in pushing boundries and exploring the psychological aspects of what all of this means for us. It's quite an adventure!

This place has been so helpful for that, too, in reading, in reaching out to other people, in getting their opinions and experiences. Even if it seems fairly mundane or self-explanatory, it helps me to deepen my understanding of what is happening with me. And there is a part of me - a large part, actually - that is just plain old curious to see how far I can push myself, to see what I can build up to.

Out of curiosity, what does the anagram WIITWD stand for? I've seen this alot on these boards.

< Message edited by T1981 -- 1/7/2009 10:03:48 AM >

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 10:05:03 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		My initial reaction is that most limits, hard or soft, can change over time. The exception would be things that no doubt would cause harm regardless of how careful or safe you might be.

For the first few years together, Fox and I did anal with him receiving. He just wasn't enjoying it and I was not inexperienced in how to use strapons or anything else in that area of the body. He was always having difficulties with that part of his body so he went to a specialist.

You see, he had been raped anally when he was a teen, just starting highschool and it involved the use of not just what you'd expect but also sharps. It left him, we found out, very scarred and damaged in that part of his body.

His mind was willing and he wanted to please me but we had to stop because it was only adding to what may always be unpleasant feelings in that area of his body. Perhaps surgery may be an option some day but I'd worry about that removing what few pleasure areas are there all ready.

On the positive side, over the years he has given up a few of his hard limits as well such as with knife play and breath play. Those happened as you said, T1981 -- he wanted to try and push them and since those are things I enjoy I was happy to push gently.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 10:06:51 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		WIITHD is an acronym for What It Is That We Do. I se it as an umbrella term to encompass all aspects of BDSM.

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Do Not Rile da Chosen Bear

Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

10 NZ points
Whips~n~Cuffs

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 10:47:41 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		It's been my experience that sometimes rock hard limits over time and as situations as well as the individual changes/grows are softened and can become limits to be explored in time. I know people for whom same sex, anal sex and fisting have been hard limits and carven in stone, now theyare exploring the possibility of experiencing them before ratifying they are indeed hard limits.. I can of course fully endorse those hard limits which for the individual are moraly taboo. None of us have the right to interfere with those and call ourself Dominants. 

Just my view, others can agree or disagree. You are after all adults.



_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 11:13:44 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		The reasons that people have 'hard limits' differ from person to person.........from things they don't like, things they fear to moral stances and things regarding principles.

I've a LOT of things I don't like and a fair few that I fear but I didn't have the option of limiting M in what he could or couldn't do. That has always been fine by me but it could have been an unmitigated disaster had he got it wrong and done things that damaged my trust in him. It's quite a responsibility to have.

I may not have a list of limits, but he KNOWS all the things 'I'm afraid of, am curious about but fearful of'..and so on.

In a lot of ways, it's a lot more difficult when you know you have carte blanch and are holding the responsibility for the outcome of doing something you know is tricky, has the risk of ruining or denting, in ANY way , trust that has been built over a long, long time. It's hard won and relatively easy to lose.

It's often easily and gliby said that * I have no limits*...but often it's not known what lays behind that statement. Many things have tested THE limits that (with M, I ought to add) I THINK I could endure and every time I have arrived the other side with the attitude of...* My GOD , that was hard, painful, difficult or frightening..but to date , I've never emerged saying .....* I wish it hadn't happened*.....

Just to be perfectly honest.....there are some things I wouldn't be looking forward to if I knew they were going to happen again and I could specify which ones....lol

All of this is much easier to be sure of and confident about when you've a lot of certainties and nothing to be smug about.

agirl



















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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 11:19:57 AM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you for that explanation, Bear, I was racking my brain trying to think of what it could mean and coming up with zilch all around!

And that's really refreshing to hear you share about how gentle and careful you were with exploring that limit, TammyJo, and about how even what is truly painful for some of us can be moved through. Stories like that are what keep me moving!

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Many things have tested THE limits that (with M, I ought to add) I THINK I could endure and every time I have arrived the other side with the attitude of...* My GOD , that was hard, painful, difficult or frightening..but to date , I've never emerged saying .....* I wish it hadn't happened*....

agirl


So far, same here, so this is also good to hear! Thanks! It helps me keep an open mind towards experiences that I might, at first, want to keep from happening. (Which is why I'm really glad no one told me beforehand that we were doing the multiple fingers thing, elsewise I would have pitched a fit and refused to do so!)




















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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 12:37:42 PM   
BondageBarbieX


Posts: 495
Joined: 4/1/2008
Status: offline 		My hard limits are firm and have not changed...animals,scat,kids,humiliation,degradation,no permanent damage (scars etc),no poly and I doubt those will ever change.

I actually love fisting  and I hope you enjoy it s much as I do.

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 12:43:15 PM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks, BondageBarbie, I'm hoping to find that I enjoy it, too! Definately going to work on that one! (Half the fun is the challenge, I'm so looking forward to it!) And yeah, my current hard limits include scat/watersports, animals, kids (and by extension, really young age play, though I understand how, for many, it's not the same thing and that's cool for them).




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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 1:21:58 PM   
kristileigh


Posts: 1078
Joined: 3/23/2008
Status: offline 		Master is what changed some of my hard limits. No He didn't bully me into changing them. He simply said trust Me, and if you do not like it them that is fine. Needles are not a hard limit anymore. Breath play is no longer a hard limit. In fact i get quite aroused from these activities.

So yes hard limits can be changed.

slave kristi


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Master Chris!

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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 1:30:16 PM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		I think that's a huge part of why my limits are beginning to move - trust. It's not that before I trusted my husband any less, but I think perhaps what I doubted was his ability to read me, and as we've gone further into that, that doubt is vanishing and quickly. We've got some experience in these sorts of things now, and it's allowing me to trust that we can go further.

My husband has always been extremely respectful of my limits, and for that, I am utterly grateful. It does mean that I have to respect his as well (and there are a few, even things that I would like to try myself) BUT, it's a two way street, and that's becoming quite clear also as we go on.


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RE: When your hard limits begin shifting.... - 1/7/2009 1:38:04 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Perhaps some of the hard limits are not so much as ofgfending morality because morals are an individual thing unless you choose to allow the state or church to dictate them to you. I see some things as being almost (Please note I said ALMOST) universal in acceptance. Kids, Animals, permanant dammage being three I can think of with others such as scat and water sports being taboo for those with finer sensibilities.. In most cases I have found that by the time I have placed a permanant Bruin Cottage Collar about a slave's neck I have a complete handle on their limitations divinding them into:
  • Untried
  • Scared of but willing to try sometime.
  • Scared but sort of curious (different from the one above)
  • Shit Scared
  • Taboo.
All but those which are taboo which will mostly be mine also, I will gradually as I feel the time is right and as I see fit work on pushing the boundaries to acceptance. Remember loving/liking is not the same as will do it if I want him/her to do it. In respect of the M/s dynamic it really doesn't matter if a slave loves, likes or will just do, as long as said slave does it when I command it to be so. In many cases those who love something we do is already being rewarded, in cases where he or she will do but doesn't like it, I can usually find some reward after. Much like rewarding a dog for following commands in reality.. (Those who know me know that I regard our two canine children much higher than I do most of humanity so my comment isn't as cold as it seems VWEG)


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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