Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!!

Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (Full Version)

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Dastan -> Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/7/2009 1:09:26 PM)
Hello website members, Dominant Trans and Genetic Ladies and friends.... I have a small question, more of an opinion problem, regarding an issue in BDSM galleries found online by my friends. This is a topic regarding culture and race as seen in these galleries. Only in very few galleries, out of the net total we saw, you see a small number of african-american or latino slaves. For some reason, it is easier to see a Latino male as a sub/slave being whipped, humilliated or used for service than to see an African-American male., and both, particularly us Latinos, appear ina number of anal-play galleries such as TransSexual Domination where Shemales or Trannnies as they are called, love to abuse and penetrate both, but especially latinos, as a punishment for the strong male image of African-American and Latino males and perhaps a hinted accusation of being as the stereotype goes "chauvinist-macho womanizing pigs" as it is. I heard a lady say regarding this, on a chat outside the website, that this is because it's "Politically Incorrect" to dominate Latinos and African-Americans because of the racial issues that arise, and the whole "negative image" that can convey the picture of a beautiful white lady dominating a Black man licking her boots with his back exposed to her whip. Now, it puzzled me why there was no such concept about us Latinos and she mentioned that it was more of a cultural thing, against a racial one, for they simply consider us "less valuable" than white males for as she said, we were seen as an economically lower class and a socio-culturally less developed race so it was slightly incorrect as it seemed as if a lady who dominated a latino male was simply dominating him with the threath of calling the INS on him or the DEA and also because they felt latinos were culturally unable to embrace the Male Submissiveness concept. The joke is, she did agree with others that both races often present the most extreme and strongest Masochists and players willing to get tortured within less than an inch of distance fromc rossing over the line between hurt and harm, so that in terms of physical play, humilliation and pain/damage, they were culturally pushed to prove their strenght by taking as much as possible being stoic, so they were great to take 1000 lashes half of them scratching the skin and brekaing blood and yet suck at keeping their cool and take orders from a woman in anything except domestic chores..... I am kind of curious to see if any White (Caucasian, Aryan or Anglo-Saxon) Mistress here, or any Male Sub (of any ethnicity/culture) , has seen something of the sort or if She or He can give a concept or opinion based on the following guidelines or questions.... 1-) ¿ Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ? 2-) ¿ Do you consider the idea and/or have experiences that prove that some races, such as African-descent and Latino/Hispanics (Central and South Americans) males are culturally raised, almost "wired" in a way that makes them lousy subs on any otehr area than pain/damage play?.....

eponastar -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/7/2009 1:19:06 PM)
Whats the point to skin color.... We all bleed red right? We did last time I checked. Its sad that people see other on skin color instead of other traits.

JustDarkness -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/7/2009 1:24:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eponastar Whats the point to skin color.... We all bleed red right? We did last time I checked. Its sad that people see other on skin color instead of other traits. and the other side...they might have other beliefs..habbits...etc etc.. so simply saying we are the same.. will not solve problems either.

CatdeMedici -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/7/2009 3:39:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eponastar Whats the point to skin color.... We all bleed red right? We did last time I checked. Its sad that people see other on skin color instead of other traits. Ok first of all there are people who PREFER to dominate or be dominated by people of the opposite color--its their kink, attraction, preference or it just happens that way--do a search on how many black male subs want white Mistresses or how many black Doms want the little white lady-- quote: Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ? No quote: Do you consider the idea and/or have experiences that prove that some races, such as African-descent and Latino/Hispanics (Central and South Americans) males are culturally raised, almost "wired" in a way that makes them lousy subs on any otehr area than pain/damage play?..... I actually think many of them make lousy Dominants ( note I said many not ALL) and as we said on an earlier thread--personality, color, gender is not and should not be a definitive for orientation.

subtlebutterfly -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/7/2009 3:49:07 PM)
Personally I don't like the ones that do it 'cause of the race because caucasians are the white trash and due to history african americans need to treat us like we treated them n shit like that to somehow reverse history and I've bumped into those on here just like white's been lookin for blacks for the same reason. However I once simply asked 'cause I was curious, why they preferred caucasians to another race, the answer I got was 'cause of the contrast it makes..honestly I'd never thought of that and I really liked the answer. When it comes to females I have no preference for the race, when it comes to males not really either BUT I'm usually attracted to mixed race/african americans when it comes to men. It's just the way I'm wired..it's got nothing to do with it being cool or historic or whatever it's just simply what I get attracted to and somehow they have had the personality I get attracted to. It wouldn't stop me from dating any other race if I liked the person. [8\|]

hereyesruponyou -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/7/2009 4:20:40 PM)
Background: My husband was black and i never saw him as anything other than my soulmate. I did observe the fact that HE felt a need to defer at times in order to fit into the predominantly white world we live in. By always being gracious and polite he took away the weapons many could have used against him. The closest thing to understanding was when i had to give a speech honoring his dad. I was the only white face in the room. The people could not have been nicer or more welcoming, but i still felt conspicuous. I can't imagine going through life that way. As for how i feel about the racial aspect of play. I have found attractive people, male and female from just about all races and origins. How i would feel about any individual however would have to be more about their personality and the way it meshed with mine than anything else. I really do cease to see race (weight, scars, disabilities) with people i get to know. I do admit a bit of a Squick when i get mail from a submissive black male asking to be "my slave" and stating that the old slavery system is the way the world should be etc etc... no thanks Now my current partner is white and facinated by the color contrast and one of his greatest fantasies is to watch me "get screwed by a big black cock". He doesn't quite get why it's not a major turn on for me. The interest for me would be in fulfilling my mate's fantasy. And as soon as i find someone i like on a personal level we'll go there. Same would be true for a hispanic male. As far as socioeconomic and other factors. Well sometimes that does get in the way. Primarily when our expectations are just too far apart. But honestly i've had more problems with religious differences than race or age. Sorry for the ramble i swear this started out making sense....to me

ALAstella -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/7/2009 4:28:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici quote: Do you consider the idea and/or have experiences that prove that some races, such as African-descent and Latino/Hispanics (Central and South Americans) males are culturally raised, almost "wired" in a way that makes them lousy subs on any otehr area than pain/damage play?..... I actually think many of them make lousy Dominants ( note I said many not ALL) and as we said on an earlier thread--personality, color, gender is not and should not be a definitive for orientation. There's quite a lot of crappy Caucasian or white dominants out there too. I've yet to find any link between skin colour and how someone goes about their interests in BDSM.

undergroundsea -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/7/2009 5:03:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dastan 1-) ¿ Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ? I recall watching a BDSM video years ago in which a white domme dominated a black man. The video had an interview of the man at the end, presumably a preemptive step, in which he clarified that there was no offense intended or justified by his complexion. I refer to this video to point out that its makers must have felt the need to address the discomfort discussed in this thread. In past discussions that touched upon interracial play, I have heard white women or men express discomfort with dominating a black submissive. While I can understand the reason behind the reservation, I think they do more a disservice to such a sub by excluding him or her from consideration for that reason alone. Thus, I think the choice is incongruent with the intent. I think it is perfectly fine for a person of any race to play with another person of any race. People who particularly enjoy playing with a person of a different race might do so for one or both of the reasons listed below. Just as everyone has features they find particularly attractive, some people are particularly drawn to features in a given race. For some people this race is different from their own race. Thus, one point focuses on attraction based specifically on race and is independent of BDSM. Some people into BDSM are drawn to race play as part of a broader type of play based on historical or present cultural rivarly (ethnic rivalry, inter-school rivalry, inter-institution rivalry). Amongst this set of people, for some race play provides a path to early fantasies they had based on historical accounts that provided a context for D/s or SM. For some, race play is a means to confront cultural trauma (a term I picked up at a discussion by Midori that focused on this type of play) and engage in emotional/mental SM. quote: 2-) ¿ Do you consider the idea and/or have experiences that prove that some races, such as African-descent and Latino/Hispanics (Central and South Americans) males are culturally raised, almost "wired" in a way that makes them lousy subs on any otehr area than pain/damage play?..... While cultural expectations might create a greater struggle to accept male submission and release ego for those whose upbringing particularly emphasizes machismo, I think this background presents not a limit but a challenge that can be overcome. I have seen submissives (who engaged in D/s and not just SM) of all races. Cheers, Sea

undergroundsea -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/7/2009 5:17:56 PM)
quote: Now, it puzzled me why there was no such concept about us Latinos and she mentioned that it was more of a cultural thing, against a racial one, One question Midori raised in the discussion referenced above was that why is that we can have a rape roleplay at a public party, but a roleplay that has a man in an SS uniform or a plantation slave roleplay would be considered very taboo. The collective response was that there are issues for which we have not yet collectively healed as a society and these issues represent sensitive buttons. For instance, I expect that a role play between a Turk and a Greek could occur in the US without raising eyebrows but would not go over well in Turkey or Greece itself. Similarly, a roleplay based on a plantation scene might be more acceptable in Europe than here. A roleplay between a North soldier and a South soldier would bring less reaction today than if done shortly after the Civil War. Slavery and segregation are issues about which society here is still healing. Thus, I think we see the reluctance of dominating across racial lines to be more common when the submissive is black. Cheers, Sea

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 4:59:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly Personally I don't like the ones that do it 'cause of the race because caucasians are the white trash and due to history african americans need to treat us like we treated them n shit like that to somehow reverse history and I've bumped into those on here just like white's been lookin for blacks for the same reason. i've actually seen a couple of Black dominant profiles here written that way yet they feel justified berating me with their "you're setting back our race to slavery days" because i have a White Daddy or i'm not "black enough" to be their submissive/slave because i'm not willing to "allow" myself to be dominated by a Black man.

PeonForHer -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 5:32:39 AM)
The feelings and preferences involved in sexual/emotional attraction should be separated from the cultural sensibilities of wider society. However, unfortunately, that doesn't and can't always happen, asprevious posters have said. I'd have no problem considering a black dominant woman as a partner; however, were I to be a dominant, as a white, I might feel edgy about having a black female sub. I once read the profile of a black woman who regularly had her black male sub carry her around - in public, in the towncentre, during daylight - in a rickshaw. Now, that must have take some front as is - but I wince at imagining the same activity but with the dominant being a white woman.

MsStarlett -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 5:41:08 AM)
Oddly enough, I've never had a black partner. Not that I'm not attracted to them, the opportunity just never arose. I honestly don't know how I would feel about the dynamic. Probably wouldn't have thought about it if you guys hadn't brought it up. I've had a Jew, a couple of Italians, a Korean and a Native American... but that's about as 'colorful' and 'diverse' as my history goes. Although, I was thinking just yesterday "Would it be in bad taste to send my new photos of me in a German jacket to my Jewish boy?"

mozartsfuneral -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 6:07:30 AM)
i'm black (obviously, silly me ) and i have a white Master. i'm adopted by a white family and am always the minority wherever i go. It doesn't really bother me that much anymore...and i don't see anything wrong with being a slave to my Master, because i've always been attracted to white men. Not saying i haven't dated a black man, i've dated a few...but i always have perferred white men. Does this mean i'm less black? or turning my back against my race? No. i think it's time that we move on from the slavery thing. Time heals, but first, we need to set ourselves higher then gangsta's and rap music. Pull up your pants, drop the ebonics, pick up a book and go to college. Get a decent job and put your life on a decent track. Now I'm not saying that this applies to anyone here...and i wasn't trying to offend, just merely stating something... :-)

PeonForHer -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 7:07:31 AM)
stating something For an instant, I thought you said "starting something". [:D]

mozartsfuneral -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 7:48:44 AM)
lol no no no.

khem -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 8:02:46 AM)
I think that if someone is brought up in a culture with gender roles different than my own, I will be cautious to play/be with them. While I don't claim that caucasians have anything like equality in genders, some other cultures (Indian, Asian, Latino, Middle Eastern etc) in certain areas outright scare me with the way they treat women or the limitations that they place on them. If a man is brought up in these more extreme examples of cultural influence, I would not be surprised that he romanticized a woman on top- my question would be what happens when I really want to be on top? I have tried to speak with men from other countries, but I have always found them to be too caught up in an idea that a woman being dominant is a taboo idea and/or only wanting to submit on their own terms. My two cents and experience, of course not everyone, everywhere.

Musicmystery -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 8:05:26 AM)
~FR~ I look for an intelligent, interesting, seductive girl who is both ready to truly submit (or at least serious about considering it--I have neither time nor interest in forcing brats to their knees) and who has interests and passions beyond sitting at my feet. Yes, I will keep her naked and ready for use at home, but I also like a girl with whom I can share life. I don't care if she's experienced or a newbie, I don't care about her background, I don't care about her interesting little quirks, and I sure as hell don't care about her race. Why would I? Tim

Dastan -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 10:11:08 AM)
Hello members of the website, thank you for the good replies I have seen. I am particularly grateful to Mistress ALAstella and Mr Undergroundsea for their educated opinions on the subject, not to say any others aren't great, but that they were kind enough to amke it as simple as possible, while not simpler, in order for me to understand as they wisely guessed that although my command of English is good, it is not my native tongue and I am not resident in the US or have visited enough places for enough time to pick up some tones and nuances, so they made it easy for me and I must thank them for their time and effort. Especially, I'd liek to thank Mistress ALAstella who defended us against the opinion fo Mistress CatDeMedici, who although said "MANY, but not ALL" which sounded a little harsh considering that even if I don't like Females to submit to males (I'm a MaleSub so it's heresy or blasphemy to me, LOL) sort of sounded the same as to generalize it as a trait of character and culture/race instead of considering those as particular cases. I'd like to ask her to please elaborate, since there are so many differences between latino countries that perhaps these LOUSY doms come from a given group that can be profiled so that they don't become a generalization. Most of Latin America hates each other, for history reaons and cultural differences. Not to mention a Mexican person is far different from a Colombian. Perhaps given the nature of the socioeconimic and cultural conditions, profiles and foudnations to build upon, Argentinians and Colombians as well as Brazilians can say they are smarter than Peruvians, Ecuatorians, Bolivians and Paraguayans at areas such at engineering and science and a little bit above Chileans, Uruguayans and Venezuelans in the same but better if not slightly over them in trade and commerce or economics due to the fact that each country has a different level of exposure to globalization and information. I'd like to clarify that because it's obvious that if someone here says most Latino males make lousy dominants, not all but most of us make lousy Dominants, it can happen that the LOUSY Doms they know happen to share a nationality and the GOOD doms they know are of a different one. Perhaps the ideal way to re-edit this thread would be to add the next question to ask : 3-)¿ What is your opinion about Latino males in BDSM, both as Masters or Subs/Slaves, and on what bases you make this comment ? 4-) ¿ Have you seen a pattern in the NEGATIVE individuals you have encountered inside BDSM from the Latino ethnocultural group, such as a given Nationality, or perhaps a socio-economical and educational status or level ? I know it can sound bad but it's the same as if I said MANY American men were LOUSY Doms and only a few did it right and I left out that the most of these men I knew, the LOUSY Doms group, was majorly from a given geographical area and generation or social-economical class or educational level, like if I said "Most, but not all, American white men are LOUSY Doms" and didn't say that what I know are educationally low-level individuals from the SouthWest area where there are several cultural conditions that can predispose them to follow an archetype that was, in this case, negatively known as "being a redneck" and act in a way that fits the stereotype. What intrigues me is that although Mistres CatDeMedici mentions Latinos only as Doms, but she doesn't comment on the Subs portion much. ¿ Is it your opinion based on experience that Latino men are mostly interested into BDSM as Doms ?

Lashra -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 10:57:38 AM)
quote: 1-) ¿ Do you feel that if you dominate a Non-White, perhaps even Non-American male of a lesser economical, cultural stratus, you are doing something "incorrect" ? 2-) ¿ Do you consider the idea and/or have experiences that prove that some races, such as African-descent and Latino/Hispanics (Central and South Americans) males are culturally raised, almost "wired" in a way that makes them lousy subs on any otehr area than pain/damage play?..... 1. No I do not feel I am doing something incorrect. If I inspire him as a Dominant and we both agree to: play, be in a relationship or what have you, then in my opinion its good. I do not look at race, I look at the person. 2. Societal conditioning can be more difficult for a new sub to overcome. However if he does have a submissive personality and finds a Dominant that inspires him, then he may work to overcome that conditioning so that he can be who he truly is inside. Once that hurdle is past then the person can go on to be a great sub, IF he truly wants to be. Just my 2 cents, ~Lashra

Lashra -> RE: Racial Biases and Burdens in BDSM ???!!! (1/8/2009 11:11:48 AM)
quote: 3-)¿ What is your opinion about Latino males in BDSM, both as Masters or Subs/Slaves, and on what bases you make this comment ? 4-) ¿ Have you seen a pattern in the NEGATIVE individuals you have encountered inside BDSM from the Latino ethnocultural group, such as a given Nationality, or perhaps a socio-economical and educational status or level ? 3. I had a Puerto Rican sub for three years. He was a nice guy but 17 years my junior. He started out eager, obedient and pleasing. But at the end of the three years we were arguing all the time. I do not think it was his race at all, but his age and the fact he was still finding out who he was and his place in the world. Now he identifies as a Dom. Personally I do not think he will make a very good Dom. Unless he has matured over the years, back then he had some really unrealistic ideals about how slaves should be treated, he has a terrible temper and is a huge Mama's boy. This however does not mean ALL latino's would make lousy Dom's, I do not believe that for a moment. Would I take on another Latino? In a minute, I think Latino's are hot, passionate and very romantic. That relationship was a learning experience for Me and for him. 4. The only negativity I have encountered personally was not from a particular race but a particular group associated with the BDSM community. They do not think very highly of female Dominants and I'm fairly certain many of us do not think to highly of them. My other 2 cents, ~Lashra

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