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What in the world.. - 1/7/2009 8:46:17 PM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		I am truly shocked. 

"Medics Caught on Tape Allegedly Decided Disabled Man Not Worth Saving"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article5420921.ece
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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 9:28:01 AM   
slaveluci


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From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline 		It's truly disgusting but discussions and decisions like that probably happen way more than we'd like to admit............luci

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 9:34:59 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
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Status: offline 		Apparently, their conversation was overheard by a dispatcher who was so sickened by what they'd heard that they immediately reported it to their supervisor. Hopefully, the conversation was recorded so it'll make compelling listening and overwhelming evidence of the callousness and as SlaceLuci has stated, this kind of act likely happens more frequently.

My own mother spent Christmas eve at the local hospital. The paramedics arrive and began asking her questions, which she couldn't answer due to having said breathing difficulties. They began to have a conversation between them, almost oblivious to anyone else being present, about whether they should take her to hospital or not. If I had to drive the ambulance myself, she was going to hospital and that's exactly where she went but it makes me wonder just how many elderly and frail persons succumb to such treatment.

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 10:28:22 AM   
bestbabync


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Status: offline 		this story is sad!  that poor family! 

i am sure the 2 Ambulancemen will be held responsible for their actions.  they and any other emergency personnel should be held to the highest standard so to set precedent!

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 10:29:43 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I do understand where the men should be prosecuted for their actions or lack of them....BUT I just can't understand why the media loves to sensationalize the actions of a few screw-ups. Now like police all emergency workers will be looked on with suspicion.

It is a sad state of affairs where suffering of people is used for ratings by the media.

Butch

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 10:38:58 AM   
bestbabync


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Status: offline 		kdsub....i agree with ya there!  being i am a member of the emergency profession, i believe that corruption or stupid mistakes like ithe incident referred to in the OP, should be brought to public attention.  this sends a perfect message to us public service workers that the thin blue or red line will be crossed when we begin to behave as if the law does not apply to us. 

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 11:24:09 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
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From: London, Ontario
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quote:

BUT I just can't understand why the media loves to sensationalize the actions of a few screw-ups. Now like police all emergency workers will be looked on with suspicion.


Because people need to be told.  It isn't sensationalization it is news aka for the most part..reality.

Makes people realize there is something wrong with a system or the people who work within it.

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 11:29:34 AM   
Lockit


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Status: offline 		Disgusting!  I guess their self imposed god-like decission will be rewarded with jail.  That won't bring the fellow back though.  We had emergency workers molesting people in the news recently in the states and it was not an isolated thing.  It gets pretty bad when you are afriad of or doubtful of the service you will get when you are vulnerable and need help.  That should be the last thing you are thinking about.

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 12:07:52 PM   
colouredin


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Status: offline 		This is appaling, and if the allergations are found to be true then I think not only do these paramedics need some pretty hefty punishment but also some retraining of local staff. There are some terrible attitudes in and around the care and public services on an institutional level. Things certainly need to change in that regard. I understand the constraints of resources but you can never judge a persons worth by their wealth.

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 12:40:14 PM   
MissMorrigan


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Status: offline 		I agree with you insofar as the media's sensationalism when reporting news. Ambulance staff/paramedics have been under scrutiny for some time for malpractice by a minority but I doubt rational people will look upon all emergency workers with suspicion. I certainly won't even though my sub occasionally accuses me of behaving irrationally, usually when chocolate is waved under my nose.

I think the problems occur, as in all sectors of public aid, as a result of a desensitisation, a detachment of emotions. The medical services have the fastest burn-out rate and it's easy to see why. I worked in the health care sector and got out when I had a break-down of sorts after being attacked during one of my calls when I worked for social services, had that not occurred I still would have left even though I loved my career and as a result of feeling impotent in a futile exercise... while I could help some poeple, many others were beyond help and that truly is a very sad thing to say. Many people, in order to cope, become inured to those they are in direct contact with, coupled with targets to meet, not enough time between patients (if you're a nurse, for instance) and the administration process garners this emotional detachment...
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I do understand where the men should be prosecuted for their actions or lack of them....BUT I just can't understand why the media loves to sensationalize the actions of a few screw-ups. Now like police all emergency workers will be looked on with suspicion.

It is a sad state of affairs where suffering of people is used for ratings by the media.

Butch


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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 12:46:56 PM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		It is disgusting, it's reprehensible that they made a conscious decision whether to grant that person life or death. Even sadder is that they likely will not face criminal charges. They will be charged with gross misconduct and fired from their positions.  I hope I am wrong on that score and that they do face criminal charges if we can believe what has been released to the media.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Disgusting!  I guess their self imposed god-like decission will be rewarded with jail.  That won't bring the fellow back though.  We had emergency workers molesting people in the news recently in the states and it was not an isolated thing.  It gets pretty bad when you are afriad of or doubtful of the service you will get when you are vulnerable and need help.  That should be the last thing you are thinking about.


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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 1:36:37 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

quote:

BUT I just can't understand why the media loves to sensationalize the actions of a few screw-ups. Now like police all emergency workers will be looked on with suspicion.


Because people need to be told.  It isn't sensationalization it is news aka for the most part..reality.

Makes people realize there is something wrong with a system or the people who work within it.


You see that is the problem in my opinion... there is NOTHING wrong with the system or the people... just those two assholes...You prove my position with your statements...see what I am saying?

Butch

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 2:03:56 PM   
colouredin


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Status: offline 		Thing is this is a British story so its not the same as the US system, and there are indeed problems with the british system

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 2:17:27 PM   
came4U


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From: London, Ontario
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quote:

You see that is the problem in my opinion... there is NOTHING wrong with the system or the people... just those two assholes...You prove my position with your statements...see what I am saying?


Two bad apples or not, point is that the system failed for THAT disabled guy didn't it?  Would it take 5, 50 or 500 more incidents to make it seem more valid?  Just like the current thread on the police shooting of innocent citizens, just how many get away with it that weren't caught/overheard or videotaped?  Talk about 'our' desinsitization by the media..what about the medics themselves that decided to play God?  Were they sensitive?


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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 3:44:22 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		It's why I won't be an organ donor.  I don't want the SOB's looking at me like I am spare parts, rather than a patient. 

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 3:46:11 PM   
PanthersMom


Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
Status: offline 		some people think they have the right to play god.  wonder how many other disabled people they've removed from society? 
PM

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 3:48:09 PM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

It's why I won't be an organ donor.  I don't want the SOB's looking at me like I am spare parts, rather than a patient. 


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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 4:07:56 PM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: came4U

quote:

BUT I just can't understand why the media loves to sensationalize the actions of a few screw-ups. Now like police all emergency workers will be looked on with suspicion.


Because people need to be told.  It isn't sensationalization it is news aka for the most part..reality.

Makes people realize there is something wrong with a system or the people who work within it.


Exactly, it needs to be told. Regarding "now like police all emergency workers will be looked on with suspicion", well that happens when bad practice takes place and is fair enough for other workers to get reminded to do their work properly. I get asked countless times in the last weeks about the Baby P. Case in UK because I am studying social work. Asked about our duties and my view (where I don't judge as I don't know the real facts which were going on, social workers made mistakes, but also did a doctor who didn't seem to have done x-rays when this child already had broken bones or even a broken back) it seems to me that quite a few people made many errors in that death, but I don't judge on one person when I only know the facts from the media which vary.

Regarding this guy who died, at uni it would be a typical example of discriminatory practice towards that guy and is highly unethical, and what people often dont think about, they can end up in the same situation like that guy. You might be fit and in great health today, but that can change at any time at any day, just because you got involved into an accident, or got a stroke, etc.

Beside uni I work with disabled clients and it does amaze me at times how people treat them with disrespect. Despite that my employer highlighted a while ago via media as well how some of our clients got treated very different in hospitals then people without a disability, and it is definitely important to make people aware about such bad practice.

My last GP was crap over here, as he didn't take my pain serious and put it down on my weight (while I am having a few kilogramm too many I am not that heavy), kind of your blood test didn't show arthritis, therefore you have nothing or you would reduce it when you loose more of your weight....yeah right, thats why at times even my arms are in pain, of course... thankfully after moving I found a great GP who got straight away that this is fibromyalgia I am talking about and not weight related and now I have medication which helps me to get good sleep during the night that I don't wake up every 1-2 hours being in heavy pain. Professionals should just do their bloody work properly and not going down the poor judgemental line when they are at work.

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 1/8/2009 4:10:13 PM >

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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 4:41:30 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		There is a trial in my area about this very subject and it is very disturbing.
 

"In February of 2006, Dr. Hootan Roozrokh was called to Sierra Vista Regional Medical Center to harvest the organs from a terminally ill patient.

That patient, 26-year-old Ruben Navarro, was removed from life support but remained alive for several hours, which rendered his organs useless to transplant doctors.

Prosecutors said that Dr. Roozrokh ordered copious amounts of drugs be given to Navarro, but he still didn't die. After more than an hour passed, it was determined that Navarro's organs were no longer eligible for transplantation.

If he is found guilty, Dr. Roozrokh could face up to eight years in prison."


http://www.ksby.com/Global/story.asp?s=9287986



quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou
It's why I won't be an organ donor.  I don't want the SOB's looking at me like I am spare parts, rather than a patient. 


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RE: What in the world.. - 1/8/2009 4:43:50 PM   
PanthersMom


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Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
Status: offline 		just 8 yrs?  the bastard should go away for life!  i'm sorry, but what he did was murder, even if it did take awhile for the poor guy to die.  he wasn't dead, but this guy pumps him full of drugs to kill him.  no brainer.
PM

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