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The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 2:32:10 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
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Another thing to ponder if you slightly aware of the evolution of our divergent way of life. When I first came onto the path via a busted marriage,the vast majority of folks were in situations like mine or in a age group of early 30's. Thus with abit of life behind them they had a better idea of what they sought.
Those facts lead to a loose understaning of the "dance" as folks roamed looking for their potential match. Over the past two years however I am aware that there is a huge infusion of folks in their early 20's and a good percentage of those in their teens. I have noted this on Bondage.com as well as here; not so much on ALT.
So my thoughts are focused on whether the influx of much younger folks will have any long term effect on the path as most of us know it to be.
Any thoughts?

CP

Post #: 1

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 2:46:32 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Having phrased it that way, I believe it will. However, we need to remember that it is their path, and not the one we walked. I think those coming in earlier will have the difficulty of, not just learning about this life, but about themselves in their own right because they do come at an earlier age. As you stated yourself, for those of us who came in our 30's already had certain life lessons learned. The same doesn't hold true for the majority of those in their early 20's/late teens. Please keep in mind, that isn't anything related to ageism. It's the way most of us develop as human beings. Where those of us who came later already had certain milestones already reached before coming to BDSM, they will cross those things in their lives while BDSM is included. They will have the need to learn to balance both, where some of us got to face those challenges at different times.

This may be seen as more difficult to some, yet easier for others. It will depend a great deal on the maturity level of those starting at that age. Some will find balancing things like school, committed relationships, maintaining a first household, first career, and all other beginning of adult life issues with kink easy enough. Others will struggle. It will depend greatly on the individual to see how they do.

Is it different? Sure. But you have to remember, every generation is different. Someday, the very type of question that you pose here will be posed by someone of this new generation about the one that's next.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 2

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 3:08:05 AM

SteveAndJaz

Posts: 151
Joined: 11/22/2008
Status: offline

I agree with what LadyPact says. In many ways I think its great that the younger generation are finding all of this earlier than perhaps what a lot of people do. In the UK we have a club called Torture Garden. It is aimed at the younger fetish community and although its mainly the dress up 'easter crowd' that like to dance all night, it also has a dungeon that the younger crowd openly explore and play in. In my opinion this kind of club is the gateway into our community, if they so desire to take it.
When I think back about my 'gateway' it was dark and somewhat dangerous.

I also believe the forums are informative to those younger and older for that matter, people that want to explore this part of them.

My only concerns is how much too soon? I know a 21 year old girl that is incontinent because she has been analy fisted too many times and I know of another youngster that is already treading down some deep and treacherous paths of this world. I worry that they don't yet have the maturity to deal with certain things and where they will end up.

I think my main concern for the scene is the amount of readily available drugs that are on offer including GHB (date rape). These drugs kill pain receptors.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 3

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 3:24:14 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Having phrased it that way, I believe it will. However, we need to remember that it is their path, and not the one we walked. I think those coming in earlier will have the difficulty of, not just learning about this life, but about themselves in their own right because they do come at an earlier age. As you stated yourself, for those of us who came in our 30's already had certain life lessons learned. The same doesn't hold true for the majority of those in their early 20's/late teens. Please keep in mind, that isn't anything related to ageism. It's the way most of us develop as human beings. Where those of us who came later already had certain milestones already reached before coming to BDSM, they will cross those things in their lives while BDSM is included. They will have the need to learn to balance both, where some of us got to face those challenges at different times.

This may be seen as more difficult to some, yet easier for others. It will depend a great deal on the maturity level of those starting at that age. Some will find balancing things like school, committed relationships, maintaining a first household, first career, and all other beginning of adult life issues with kink easy enough. Others will struggle. It will depend greatly on the individual to see how they do.

Is it different? Sure. But you have to remember, every generation is different. Someday, the very type of question that you pose here will be posed by someone of this new generation about the one that's next.

LP,

You focus on valid observations and I do not disagree with them. My only point is will the emerging consist change the overall expectancies that are/were present now.

CP

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 4

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 3:35:26 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I dunno. I have been around those sites for a long time and there really aren't that many younger people joining. It just seems like it because many of the older generation are leaving those sites because they're fed up with the politics.

From my viewpoint it still seems the majority of those into bdsm are those in their 40's and older.

But as for the younger generation, I don't mind at all. They bring a different perspective is all and they'll be the ones doing this long after we're all gone and it will be their world. Every generation has their own way of doing things and their's is no exception.

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 5

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 3:50:12 AM

JustDarkness

Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline

I discovered my feelings also around when I was 16. I am 36 now.
The way I see/experience bdsm changed a lott in those years.

But with information so available now thorugh the web..more people will have acces to anything..including bdsm...including younger people.

What I do notice is the "tone" of young D's has changed. I find it often "arrogant" how they sound in their profiles. Do this..want that...etc etc.
Doesn't sound really like they see it as a lifestyle..but more like a way to experience power or have sex.
On the otherside..perhaps..it is I who has changed.

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 1/9/2009 3:52:09 AM >

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 6

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 3:51:08 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
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I think that my generation have had differant experiances of life generally. The social enviroment we have grown up in is differant to the one that older people have. I understand and partly agree with LP's discussion about life experiances for many being older does mean more life experaince but not for all. More and more people are leaving home at younger ages and dealing with having to look after themselves.

The vanilla dating world is a jungle, more binge drinking and all that. I think that many people my age are very 'street smart' by the time they come into BDSM. Many of us are people bought up with the 'go after what you want' mentality which is just what people are doing.

I do agree though that at our age we maybe dont know what we want from a partner. But I dont think that it will be much differant doing that in a BDSM context, I tend to find many younger people involved in all this are far more analytical and philisophical about their life path which is a good thing.

SteveandJaz mentioned torture garden which for me is for a specific type of person, indeed I wouldnt even think that it was 'for the younger generation' due to the expense of the fashion statements you are required to make. But I am very aware of some wonderfully welcoming places in the UK for people my age. I think that people do look upon us warily occasionally, I myself have been confronted for stealing Doms and all that stuff but for the most part its fine.

Im sure it will change the way things are, but then so did the internet. Change isnt always a bad thing, one of the things I love is going to a fair allows me to mix with people of all age groups and all socio-economic backgrounds in a way that normally I wouldnt be able to. I get a wider range of viewpoints and learn a hell of a lot, I think for us youngsters it can actually be a deeply rewarding thing.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 7

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 4:23:11 AM

chezzy71

Posts: 412
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

my path has changed so much over the years.from very wet behind the ears with no clue in 1972 totrying to find someone in a town with a very small populace to trying to force expectations of the dream domina to waking up and smelling the coffee.of course there were plenty of rumblings pre-1972,i didn't know it had a specific name and certainly was somewhat confused by all that was out there at the time.but i am here now and the patience and understanding needed to life this life has led me to my Mistress.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 8

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 6:39:21 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

To use another analogy, when I burst onto the pagan generally and specifically, the Wiccan scene in early1974, most people involved were 30+ with steady employment and a strong desire to learn and be taught/trained. These days there as many people involved in the Pagan paths than there are older folk) at least here in Australia). Changes were both good and bad, Youth, at least here, has the catch-cry "I want it and I want it now!" as well as an expectation of things being handed to them on a plate without years of study and being taught safely and thoroughly. These days many are happy to buy publications, many written by bright young things who grab all the media they can without the necessary practical background and of whom many have rather badly plagiarized earlier works written by those experienced and trained in both the Craft or other Pagan areas or Esoteric Orders. This appears to be not uncommon in periods of history where there is an explosion of change and all we can do is to carry on trying to encourage the young ones to learn from experienced people before trying to modify or experiment with potentially dangerous things..

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 9

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 7:07:37 AM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

I agree with your analogy, IronBear. Have seen this in the pagan communities over the decades.
i cant reply to the BDSM community since i have not been a part of it for very long, plus i came into it as an older person.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 10

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 7:10:53 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

Everything changes. It is nearly impossible, in the midst of change, to determine whether those changes will be positive or less so -- especially since change itself is wrought with upheaval, and many struggle with their own fears to further complicate the 'stirred pot'.

I have young adults whom I have raised, and who have a pretty solid basic knowledge about alternative ways of living and expressions of sexuality, religion, and health. I think I've done the best I can by them, and I've given them something that I -didn't- have when I went through these explorations myself... they know that they can come talk to me about -anything-, and I'll do my best to give them the most solid information that I can. I've watched my oldest as he went on and made his own decisions, and I'll admit that sometimes I thought he was being pretty foolish -- but which one of us -hasn't- done something foolhardy in our youth, and learned from the experience? I know that I have to let them make their own mistakes, and shape their own successes... after all, they were only on loan to me while they were maturing, and now that they're grown, their lives are their own.

I think that the face of fringe existence is changing, whether we like it or not. I don't think it is a function of merely having a younger generation participating. I think that the changes are inevitable, in particular as we deal with internal struggles between individuals who want a more 'publicly acceptable' face for what we're doing and those who prefer to stay on the fringes. The very open-ness of this time in which we live, in which everyone believes they should have the right to know -everything-, and where there is no sense of privacy or respect for 'secret' or 'sacrosanct' information make it inevitable that what we are and what we do, as well as how many of us do it, will change.

The only real question we have left to ask is what these inevitable changes mean to each of -us-. How will -my- participation in a life that contains these features change as the 'world-at-large' becomes more aware of wiitwd? Will I choose my own path, or will I wait around for the world-at-large to choose it for me? Will I move towards a more mainstreamed way of existing as the larger fold moves more into the mainstream, or will I find new fringes to populate? Will I welcome a new generation with new questions and new ideas, or will I choose to be more taciturn and more discrete, saving my secrets for who-knows-what? Will I yield -all- my knowledge to anyone who asks, or will I set boundaries and establish criteria by which the knowledge that I've gathered over the years is disseminated with discretion--and will I be comfortable withholding information when those criteria are not met, even if I know that the person I am holding back from might seek out that information from someplace less... reliable... in the hopes that the individual will recognize the value of my restrictions and choose -not- to take the easy way out? Will I maintain my standards, even when everything around me seems to be caving to the cultural disintegration of "gimme now"? Is there a point at which I may acknowledge that my own standards have become outdated, and re-evaluate how I do things? Is it possible to be both traditional and to modernize without losing something in the process?

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 11

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 7:49:56 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I dunno. I have been around those sites for a long time and there really aren't that many younger people joining. It just seems like it because many of the older generation are leaving those sites because they're fed up with the politics.

From my viewpoint it still seems the majority of those into bdsm are those in their 40's and older.

But as for the younger generation, I don't mind at all. They bring a different perspective is all and they'll be the ones doing this long after we're all gone and it will be their world. Every generation has their own way of doing things and their's is no exception.

lilwonder,

I guess we are seeing different things, I have been on Bondage for over ten years and I note a significant change in the mix and while your settings would be for Dominants mine would be on submissives so on the left margin a Dom simply has to point to the new members that day and get a quick glance at age etc without calling up a profile and over the last year it is running 3 to one in favor of the fresh vs seasoned.

I do not deny the change, only the effect that it has overall and how knows it may be for the best.

CP

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 12

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 7:57:54 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

I think that my generation have had differant experiances of life generally. The social enviroment we have grown up in is differant to the one that older people have. I understand and partly agree with LP's discussion about life experiances for many being older does mean more life experaince but not for all. More and more people are leaving home at younger ages and dealing with having to look after themselves.

The vanilla dating world is a jungle, more binge drinking and all that. I think that many people my age are very 'street smart' by the time they come into BDSM. Many of us are people bought up with the 'go after what you want' mentality which is just what people are doing.

I do agree though that at our age we maybe dont know what we want from a partner. But I dont think that it will be much differant doing that in a BDSM context, I tend to find many younger people involved in all this are far more analytical and philisophical about their life path which is a good thing.

SteveandJaz mentioned torture garden which for me is for a specific type of person, indeed I wouldnt even think that it was 'for the younger generation' due to the expense of the fashion statements you are required to make. But I am very aware of some wonderfully welcoming places in the UK for people my age. I think that people do look upon us warily occasionally, I myself have been confronted for stealing Doms and all that stuff but for the most part its fine.

Im sure it will change the way things are, but then so did the internet. Change isnt always a bad thing, one of the things I love is going to a fair allows me to mix with people of all age groups and all socio-economic backgrounds in a way that normally I wouldnt be able to. I get a wider range of viewpoints and learn a hell of a lot, I think for us youngsters it can actually be a deeply rewarding thing.

colouredin,

You state some very valid points and upon checking your profile I was surprised to see that you were one of the fresh new faces which based on your qualitative contributions to the boards surprised me. pretty good for a Redcoat!.

CP

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 13

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 7:57:59 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I've been talking about this for the past ten years since I got into the scene. Nice to know some people are actually starting to pay attention. I only hope my generation will be more giving and supportive of the youngsters than what we received from our elders.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 14

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 8:02:05 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

To use another analogy, when I burst onto the pagan generally and specifically, the Wiccan scene in early1974, most people involved were 30+ with steady employment and a strong desire to learn and be taught/trained. These days there as many people involved in the Pagan paths than there are older folk) at least here in Australia). Changes were both good and bad, Youth, at least here, has the catch-cry "I want it and I want it now!" as well as an expectation of things being handed to them on a plate without years of study and being taught safely and thoroughly. These days many are happy to buy publications, many written by bright young things who grab all the media they can without the necessary practical background and of whom many have rather badly plagiarized earlier works written by those experienced and trained in both the Craft or other Pagan areas or Esoteric Orders. This appears to be not uncommon in periods of history where there is an explosion of change and all we can do is to carry on trying to encourage the young ones to learn from experienced people before trying to modify or experiment with potentially dangerous things..

Bear,

the analogies run as railroad tracts; thanks for your insight. Also, a much better pic!

CP

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 15

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 8:05:11 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

colouredin,

You state some very valid points and upon checking your profile I was surprised to see that you were one of the fresh new faces which based on your qualitative contributions to the boards surprised me. pretty good for a Redcoat!.

CP

Thankyou for the compliment, but I think it brings out an important issue. People assume that being a certain age makes you a certain way, this is one of the reasons that for a while I hid my profile. Sometimes us younger people can actually add to a discussion, which relates to the point that younger people joining the 'scene' or whatever you want to call it can be a good thing.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 16

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 8:05:53 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I've been talking about this for the past ten years since I got into the scene. Nice to know some people are actually starting to pay attention. I only hope my generation will be more giving and supportive of the youngsters than what we received from our elders.

LA,

Damn, How did I miss your words on the subject/ I agree that guidance and reception are key issues for them!

CP

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 17

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 8:08:32 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

colouredin,

You state some very valid points and upon checking your profile I was surprised to see that you were one of the fresh new faces which based on your qualitative contributions to the boards surprised me. pretty good for a Redcoat!.

CP

colouredin,

Well if they all reflected your level of maturity, I certainly agree.

CP

Thankyou for the compliment, but I think it brings out an important issue. People assume that being a certain age makes you a certain way, this is one of the reasons that for a while I hid my profile. Sometimes us younger people can actually add to a discussion, which relates to the point that younger people joining the 'scene' or whatever you want to call it can be a good thing.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 18

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 8:17:49 AM

pompeii

Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
I dunno. I have been around those sites for a long time and there really aren't that many younger people joining.

I agree with littlewonder. The "young" people are, in my opinion, 95% fake, so, what I do in my searches is I put a "40" or so for the cutoff years. That culls down the profiles by a lot as the spammers are generally 19 to 20 something. I'm sure there are some 19 to 20somethings joining every day but they're drowned out by the spammers (I never understood why but there are tons of these).

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 19

RE: The changing face of the D/s path - 1/9/2009 8:20:30 AM

nafakcha

Posts: 81
Joined: 12/28/2008
From: Melbourne, FL
Status: offline

I became aware of BDSM before I was 15. By age 15 I was starting to explore the lifestyle. I had the advantage that despite my family being conservative, the area I was raised in was quite liberal and open. If you were interested in something it was not hard to find a group of people - of almost any age - that were interested in the same things. (I was raised about 15 minutes from Berkeley, CA). By the time I was 17 I was enrolled in a very lifestyle friendly school. The students were of a wide range of ages with most being older then the typical college student. Some of these individuals provided an excellent founding into this lifestyle and through those experiences I was able to discover my place. I have always had a strong sense of what I believe in and fundamentally who I am.

Currently, I am 25. Over the past 10 years I would say I have seen three different groups of my generation and younger participating in this lifestyle. There is the small group who understand the lifestyle and its fundamental concepts. These individuals for the most part seem to understand the dynamics involved as well as the respect, trust and communication that must be involved in order to allow a D/s relationship to blossom.

The second group just doesn't understand the dynamic. They are attracted to the lifestyle for any number of reasons but simply don't understand the fundamentals. Rarely do they see how important that trust and communication are. In my opinion they are action oriented. I want X, you must do Y or Z every time that A or B occurs. It is about being ordered about or ordering someone about. You don't hear about how a submissive gets pleasure from serving their dominant and vice versa.

The third group is one that is in between the second and the first. They may have only known the second group but they are interested in more, they know something is missing in their understanding and they are seeking it out. I am not sure if I have the words to describe the transformation I witnessed in two individuals who found their counterparts in the first group.

Each individual, regardless of where they fall in the groups I observe has their own path to walk. Just because they are in one group today does not mean that tomorrow that will not change. I agree that these individuals are still gaining the life experiences that many of you had when you found this lifestyle. Their lack of these experiences may explain in part why I notice these three different groups. It is not unusual as people grow up to migrate from one social group to another as you mature and your expectations out of life change. These groups may just be the stepping stones a younger generation needs to determine if this lifestyle is right for them.

The major danger I see in this is that because these individuals are younger they may not be taking advantage of the informational resources available on how to do things safely. Whether they are embarrassed, don't know about these resources or what to search for or simply don't realize how important researching your activities can be is - they are at risk for injury. This is one reason why I think the local scene can play such an important role for young people. They provide a safe environment for younger individuals to learn from people of all ages and experience levels as well as place to meet other individuals with similar interests.

Even in the short time that I have been in this lifestyle I can see some of the changes that have been occurring. I think that this is more a natural process and that the dynamic and face of any D/s path will not be changed to any great extent. I think the biggest way it will be changed is dependent on the community and societal expectations and beliefs, which in my opinion are the same things that shaped its direction prior to my existence on this planet. There are both more dangerous routes and by far safer routes to enter and explore this lifestyle then there were when I started. I can only imagine the changes I will see in the next decade.

Keiko

_____________________________

"To seek, to strive, to find and not to yield."
~ Ulysses by Lord Alfred Tennyson

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 20

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