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What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 8:51:18 AM   
colouredin


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Status: offline 		Totally nicked from a digression on another post (is it a rarity) what can ruin relationships? I tend to be part of the compatability crowd I think this is why most relationships fail and with this other things become an issue. If people are not compatible then it can lead to people feeling they arent getting enough from the relationship, rather than simply accepting the compatability thing they look for something else. So not emotional enough, not physical enough, not enough talking etc etc comes under the umbrella of compatability. So it got me thinking what other reasons are there? When we dont fit we may allow more negative traits to come out or even new ones that we didnt know exsisted.

However if all we do is blame compatability does that not mitigate personal responsibility? Or if it is just down to compatability why do we not recognise this and end relationships? Or are there other things that impact on a relationship being bad (the post I stole this from mentioned two other things)

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 9:16:36 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
However if all we do is blame compatability does that not mitigate personal responsibility? Or if it is just down to compatability why do we not recognise this and end relationships? Or are there other things that impact on a relationship being bad (the post I stole this from mentioned two other things)

Depends on the relationship.  What is really the difference between "We're not working together well enough to make this feasible" and "I can't accept that part of things so this needs to end"  It's essentially always compatibility- there are people on here who can handle certain dysfunctions and quirks far better than I ever could.  I'm not absconding personal responsibility by knowing and being aware of that, in fact I'd say the opposite.

We're all fucked up, it's a matter of finding the fucked up that works for you. 

As far as ending relationships, well our culture places a premium on being coupled.  Most people would rather be in a known situation of couplehood, no matter how crappy it is, than admit they "failed" the relationship and had to face the world single.

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 9:17:00 AM   
marie2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

However if all we do is blame compatability does that not mitigate personal responsibility? Or if it is just down to compatability why do we not recognise this and end relationships? Or are there other things that impact on a relationship being bad (the post I stole this from mentioned two other things)


I believe "compatibility" (in a very general sense) is the main reason why relationships don't endure, or don't get off the ground to begin with.

There was someone on the other thread, I can't remember who, who said something about it being the responsibility of the dominant when a relationship doesn't work out.  And, in some ways, I do have to agree with that.  I'm talking about when a relationship has been established, NOT the beginning stage when two people are talking and considering one another. 

Assuming there is a Ds relationship in place involving a dominant and a submissive,  I do feel that more responsibility is on the dominant, since he/she is the one steering the direction and tone of the relationship. I tend to follow the dom's lead with where it's going, how fast it's going there, and how serious is does or doesn't get. 

I realize that other factors may play into the demise of any given relationship, and of course all functional relationships require mutual effort.  So I'm not saying the dominant is at "fault" or is to "blame", but I do feel the dominant is the one at the helm, and is ultimately responsible for where that relationship does or doesn't go.  At least this has been the case in my own relationships. 

< Message edited by marie2 -- 1/10/2009 9:20:13 AM >

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 9:19:34 AM   
T1981


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
We're all fucked up, it's a matter of finding the fucked up that works for you. 


LOVE this!


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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 9:21:38 AM   
Evility


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Status: offline 		I have entered into relationships (not marriage) before that I knew going in were not going to be "until death do you part" but were going to be quite enjoyable in the shorter term. This whole "pass/fail" mentality just befuddles the hell out of me. I think people would ultimately live happier relationship lives if they would quit scoring everything in Win/Loss columns.

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 9:26:43 AM   
JustDarkness


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Status: offline 		I don't think there is 100% compatability...but from some people we accept more...from others less ( I mean the differences).
Perhaps in tiem we get tired of those differences..tired of accepting them..and the relation goed down anyway.
And people do change ofcourse...which can lead to differences

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 9:29:42 AM   
sblady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Depends on the relationship.  What is really the difference between "We're not working together well enough to make this feasible" and "I can't accept that part of things so this needs to end"  It's essentially always compatibility- there are people on here who can handle certain dysfunctions and quirks far better than I ever could.  I'm not absconding personal responsibility by knowing and being aware of that, in fact I'd say the opposite.



This is such a true statement.  There were times I'd look at other relationships and compare them with mine, which was was stupid as it caused an untold number of issues.  The things that some may feel are negatives in my relationship has actually worked well for me; after I stopped that silly comparison thing.

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 9:33:44 AM   
sblady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

I have entered into relationships (not marriage) before that I knew going in were not going to be "until death do you part" but were going to be quite enjoyable in the shorter term. This whole "pass/fail" mentality just befuddles the hell out of me. I think people would ultimately live happier relationship lives if they would quit scoring everything in Win/Loss columns.



Exactly!!  I came to this realization a few years ago when I finally understood that life is too short and I want to enjoy myself while I'm here. 

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 10:56:45 AM   
Amaros


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Status: offline 		Submission is a choice as well, it's easy to blame the dominant - theoretically, it's the dominant who has to break off the relationship, the submissive has to ask, but how often does this actually occur in praxis? By way of saying it can cut both ways.

The nature of the power exchange implies that one partner, the submissive, is sublimating their need to another, and it is the responsibility of the dominant to determine what the needs of the submissive might be, whether and how these needs should be met - I hate to accuse submissive's of not being "submissive enough", but that is the explicit nature of the arrangement, if you're going to do something else, call it something else, if you have needs, communicate them.

In short, from what I hear people complaining about, either the submissive is being passive aggressive about it, or the dominant is not giving the submissive the discipline they crave - if you are being passive aggressive about it as a submissive, that's one reason a dominant might lose interest, whereas lack of attention on the part of the dominant can elicit passive aggressive behavior from the submissive.

Essentially the number one reason that relationships don't work out is lack of communication, a couple gets stuck inthe loop descibed above, and at that point, it no longer really matters whose fault it was to begin with, the realtionship has entered a death spiral, and this is no different in BDSM - it's an exchange, an arrangement, the submissive has not given up the right to have their needs met, they have offered their submission, to sublimate their needs with yours in exchange to form a symbiotic relationship, but with that comes an obligation to communicate and negotiate those needs - if you don't do it from the get go, or at least estabish the principle of negotiation, you'll find yourself fighting against the tide later on, and that goes for both parties.

It may actually be pretty rare that two people are on exactly the same page for ever and ever, for most of us, any relationship requires constant renegotiation - if communication breaks down, if eventually, if one party or the other feels the other is not living up to their expectations or they're getting their needs met, then that is going to cause tension that will eventually undermine the relationship, because you will begin to lose respect for each other and joyous, healing cooperation will turn into toxic resentment, boredom, depression, etc.

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 11:08:18 AM   
IronBear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

We're all fucked up, it's a matter of finding the fucked up that works for you. 



Judging the rest of humanity by your own faults are we dear?


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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 11:14:56 AM   
Amaros


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Status: offline 		BDSM and PE is, if anything, a framework for formal negotiation - Vanilla relationships tend to be less formal, which is why they tend to require constant renegotiation, unless they happen to be professional relationships which are similar to PE relationships, have a very explicit dynamic, but even these are subject to renegotiation from time to time.

Thing is, people don't like getting stuck in jobs that are emotionally unfulfilling either, and will renegotiate when they get the opportunity, usually by getting a different job.

Let's face it: in this culture as it's evolved, there are a lot of options, a lot of choices, everybody want's a piece of you, there are opportunity costs involved in any decision you make - if you don't know what you want and are willing to work for it, you'll just go from one thing to the next till you find the right "fit" - fine, if that's what you want, but again, you have to admit that to yourself in order to admit it to anyone else, and it's better to be upfront about that, IMO, it allows you to make a clean break if that's what it comes down to.

Then, at least, you can call it networking, rather than abject failure - there are benefits to objectification.

If you do know what you want, and you want it to work then you have to work at it, within or without the BDSM framework.

< Message edited by Amaros -- 1/10/2009 11:23:23 AM >

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 11:18:10 AM   
greeneyedreamer


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quote:

We're all fucked up, it's a matter of finding the fucked up that works for you. 


LOL Yes I sure know I am! And I agree with you, you need to find the person whom you both can deal with each other's flaws...

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 11:20:05 AM   
Amaros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
We're all fucked up, it's a matter of finding the fucked up that works for you. 
I think that's an exceptionally wise observation myself - love is, by definition, a neurotic attachment to another object.

Whether you aspire to become a lush with a closet full of shoes or to be occasionally used as a footstool, is purely a matter of preference.

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 11:29:48 AM   
windchymes


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Status: offline 		A wise person once told me, you just have to find someone with a set of problems you can live with.

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 12:37:30 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

However if all we do is blame compatability does that not mitigate personal responsibility? Or if it is just down to compatability why do we not recognise this and end relationships? Or are there other things that impact on a relationship being bad (the post I stole this from mentioned two other things)


Compatibility is an interesting concept -- it implies sharing common preferences, etc., but really, compatibility is a fluid state... an ability to adjust to the changing needs of individuals within a relationship... a willingness to adapt, perhaps compromise, and/or accept another's differences without feeling compelled to either agree or embrace that person's preferences.

There is an idea that, in order to develop a relationship, all the parties involved have to enjoy the same things, agree on common philosophies, etc., but the past 12 years have made me re-evaluate that definition of 'compatibility'.

For the past 12 years, I've lived in a poly household where the membership disagree about a surprising number of things. As an example, my mate and I both like cheese... she ONLY likes the creamy, sweet, mild cheeses. I ONLY like the smelly, sharp, dry, crumbly cheeses. She can't stand to be in the room with my aged provolone and I detest Havarti. We both like brie... I like the moldy crust, and she likes the gooey insides.

We have similar disagreements on everything from movies to politics, and yet, somehow, we've had an -amazing- relationship for a decade. A relationship that ranged from spiritual teacher/novice through mistress/servant to co-dominant house leaders. It is a compatibility based not on our similarities (we don't have many of those) but on a genuine joy in being together, and a desire to make the household and the relationship a priority. We came to love one another with almost nothing in common aside from some favorite reading material and a shared interest in spirituality (in which, after several years of sharing a teacher/novice relationship, we diverged and each went our separate spiritual ways).

Yes, compatibility is crucial to the success of a relationship -- but compatibility is more than just having the same ideas, goals, and preferences... the most important aspect of compatibility, IMO, is the ability to put the desire to share ones life with another person or other people as a priority, and allowing that sometimes, the needs of the relationship will require that one's personal preferences take a backseat to doing something just because the other(s) in the relationship likes or needs it.

The problem with many relationships is that, from the start, the relationship is all about getting ones _OWN_ needs met. Humans are selfish by nature, and too many people worry about making sure that "they get theirs", and the relationship becomes the -last- priority instead of the -first-. Then, when it all goes to hell in a handbasket, they blame the other person for not meeting -their- needs, without ever asking how may times they put their own desires above the health of the relationship.

Healthy relationships come with people who accept responsibility for being not only an individual, but part of a cooperative. They learn to vocalize needs and desires, and learn to listen to others' needs... and they learn the arts of prioritization and compromise as tools to insure that the partnership's health is the first priority, and that the needs of the individuals within that partnership are handled in the manner that is best for the relationship, first.... not -ignoring- the needs of the parts, but acknowledging that there will be times when one person's needs may be subsumed for the health of the communion.

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 1/10/2009 12:38:24 PM >

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 1:36:36 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

So it got me thinking what other reasons are there?



There's such a thing as: right people, wrong time. Wrong time a result of too many other things going on, such as building careers. Relationships thrive when both partners are reasonably secure.

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 1:41:57 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

We're all fucked up, it's a matter of finding the fucked up that works for you. 



Don't agree. Quirks, flaws and off-field problems maybe, but not everyone is 'fucked up'. For me, it's a matter of swerving anyone who is 'fucked up' - easy life and all that.

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 2:08:27 PM   
kallisto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

We're all fucked up, it's a matter of finding the fucked up that works for you. 



This is fantastic!  

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 2:15:39 PM   
eyesopened


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From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sblady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

I have entered into relationships (not marriage) before that I knew going in were not going to be "until death do you part" but were going to be quite enjoyable in the shorter term. This whole "pass/fail" mentality just befuddles the hell out of me. I think people would ultimately live happier relationship lives if they would quit scoring everything in Win/Loss columns.



Exactly!!  I came to this realization a few years ago when I finally understood that life is too short and I want to enjoy myself while I'm here. 



Excellent!!!  It amazes me how many people refuse to be happy until they can reach "Happiness" (read "perfection")   I have had a huge amount of fun, been extremely happy, learned a lot and have no regrets with my "meanwhile" relationships. Any one of us could drop dead tomorrow so why not enjoy the small pleasure of life? 

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RE: What can go wrong? - 1/10/2009 2:37:00 PM   
Mercnbeth


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~ Fast Reply ~
 
Most people plan far too much for failure than they do for success.

You end up achieving what follows the plan you worked hardest upon.

Most forget to have FUN at the top of any daily 'To Do' list with their partner. (Appreciating that's really "fucked up".)

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