RE: Who should make the first move? (Full Version)

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hardbodysub -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 8:33:59 AM)

I feel that dominance in general implies a proactive orientation, so logically it makes more sense for the dominant party to be making the first move. In the world in general, dominants go after what they want, and submissives acquiesce. However, in this lifestyle there are a couple of factors that seem to turn that logic on its head.

First, many believe that a submissive should be so service-oriented that the dominant shouldn't have to do much of anything, and that extends even to the effort involved in making the first contact and "petitioning". Second, at least as it applies to femdom/malesub, the numbers game is so much in favor of the females that they have no need to make initial contacts; submissive males are pretty much forced into seeking, petitioning, and selling themselves to dominant females, even though such action doesn't seem consistent with a submissive orientation.



hardbodysub -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 8:39:41 AM)

Oops, I forgot that I had a third factor in mind. It was mentioned previously by someone else. Our vanilla cultural norm of males taking the initiative to make the first move tends to carry over into the BDSM lifestyle, whether the situation is maledom/femsub or femdom/malesub.

Overall, I feel that anyone who is so inclined to contact the other should go ahead and do it, and that the "dominant" orientation should generally be more inclined to do so. However, the factors mentioned above usually mandate that the male make the first move, or nothing will ever happen.



GreeneGoddess -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 8:51:17 AM)

I'm more than happy to make the first move if I find someone interesting  - that does not happen very much online, but more so in person.

If a sub makes the first move...I expect more effort than a "here I am ....I'll make a great slave'....come get me" type approach.



Dnomyar -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 9:20:10 AM)

If your interested in a person say hello. nuff said.



PeonForHer -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 9:54:00 AM)

Hello, Raymond.



OttersSwim -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 10:13:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Hello, Raymond.


Pfft...you say that to -all- the boys...  [;)]



PeonForHer -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 11:02:33 AM)

Not to you I don't.  You can sod off, Otters.



PeonForHer -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 11:03:43 AM)

[;)]



Lockit -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 11:18:10 AM)

I have no problem in seeing something I want and seeking to get it.  However, I am a bit blinded by all the men swiming about or in life... that I don't see or know of every man out there.  Am I less dominant or doing it wrong?

Until I have any dynamic with anyone... we are simply people... and that stuff added to a situation saying it is the male or female thing to do... jesus... that is fucking out of the way I think. Oh... I can't call a man... oh... no darling... you wait three days after a date to call, you don't want to seem too hungry... oh a dominant should be this.. a woman that... a man this... a submissive this... Will we ever get past gender, lables and some strange society rules that might have some basis for some people, but don't apply to all?



OttersSwim -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 12:06:42 PM)

Okay...so...a story.  I have told it before.  But it's good and I wanna...[;)]

My first meeting with my Lady was with my wife at a restaurant - great energy, vibes, and attraction, all wonderful.  We mutually pursued getting there, I put up a profile, she sent an email, I responded, we ended up on chat...and then at the restaurant.

As we leave, she hugs me and as we pull away, she very meaningfully (but subtly) touches her right hand to my chest and gave me this amazing look.  She takes initiative.

I get home and I am thinking, hell yes, I want this!  I send her an email expressing what a great time I had and asking for a second meeting in no uncertain terms expressing my sincere interest.  I take initiative.

Our second date (first date just the two of us)...I am gawky, awkward and doing everything wrong (or so I feel).  At the end of the evening, we are on the couch talking.  All is well...there is a lull in the conversation.  She climbs into my lap, bends my head back and starts kissing and biting my neck, sending me totally over the moon.  She takes initiative.

Our example shows that we both did things to bring ourselves together.  Dunno...only my experience, but I think it requires effort from both parties.




eponastar -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 1:44:51 PM)

I don't think it really matters who makes the first move. I know I don't have time to go 'sub shopping' I get enough emails as is, that sometimes it takes me a while to get back to them. When it comes to making that first move I see alot of submissives doing it. But beyond that, I find I am the one always setting the pace. 



Venatrix -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 2:04:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Hello, Raymond.

Don't encourage him.



beeble -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 2:21:57 PM)

quote:

hardbodysub wrote:
I feel that dominance in general implies a proactive orientation, so logically it makes more sense for the dominant party to be making the first move.

I'm not so sure about that.  At the point of first contact, there's no D/s relationship (because there's no relationship at all) so I wouldn't ascribe any of the properties of a D/s dynamic to the initial contact.  Many Dom/mes and subs aren't especially dominant or submissive in their lives outside their chosen D/s relationships.

quote:

In the world in general, dominants go after what they want, and submissives acquiesce.

This I disagree with strongly.  I, as a submissive, go very strongly with what I want.  I *want* to be treated the way that my Mistress treats me: if I didn't want it, it would be abuse.  If I didn't want it, I'd leave.  That doesn't mean that I control what happens to me and it doesn't mean that I tell her what to do.  She chooses the things that we do; she chooses when they happen and to what extent.  I often tell her what I want but we both know that this is a statement of fact, rather than a request.  Sometimes, I even seduce her but that doesn't mean that I control what happens beyond the fact that I've turned her on.

Anyway, the things I want are often contradictory. I want to come and I want to be teased and denied more.  I want to suffer for her and I want the torment to stop.  My Mistress makes the decisions and the I submit to those decisions.  I want to obey.

I don't get my own way but I get what I want.

beeble.



hardbodysub -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 9:44:31 PM)

We seem to disagree on basic definitions. I tend to adhere to a more general, non-lifestyle-BDSM-ified definition of dominance and submission. A D/s relationship doesn't have to be formally established for a dominant personality to assert itself.



Lockit -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/14/2009 10:16:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

We seem to disagree on basic definitions. I tend to adhere to a more general, non-lifestyle-BDSM-ified definition of dominance and submission. A D/s relationship doesn't have to be formally established for a dominant personality to assert itself.


So would it be safe to assume that you would act submissively all the time, with most people or situations?  That your submission is always on display? 

I find it interesting that you seem to believe that a dominant asserts themselves... not going the itself you used... and that their dominance or assertiveness is gauged by whether or not they make first contact.  That somehow they are lacking if they don't.  Even when many have stated good reasons as to why they might not.

Personally I think we should do it the way we wish to and if I am being evaluated by a submissive who thinks I should do things the way he views dominance... so be it... but I am in charge of how I do my seeking, hunting, approaching or whatever.  Geez... what would you think if it were really something important if this is catching you up so?

Allowing submissive's to contact you, being busy with those that do contact you and maybe not even wishing to seek, hunt or contact... just becasue we are here... isn't a sign of submission or anything else.



beeble -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/15/2009 4:53:03 AM)

quote:

hardbodysub wrote:
We seem to disagree on basic definitions. I tend to adhere to a more general, non-lifestyle-BDSM-ified definition of dominance and submission. A D/s relationship doesn't have to be formally established for a dominant personality to assert itself.

But, as I said, ``Many Dom/mes and subs aren't especially dominant or submissive in their lives outside their chosen D/s relationships.''  If it is a matter of definition, are you saying that I'm not submissive because I only submit to my chosen Mistress?  Are you saying that she's not dominant because, when we met in real life for the first time, she was more nervous than I was?

beeble.



MissIsis -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/15/2009 5:03:38 AM)

Generally, I prefer the guy to make the first move.   The only problem I find is that many submissive men are rather aggressive, and don't take the "No, thank you, I am not interested part" seriously. 

This may sound bad, but around here, I think the males, at least have to say hi, if they want to at least get noticed.  There is a rather hot dominant man that has checked out my profile a couple times.   If he ever bothered to write me & get to know me a little, I sure as hell would go out for coffee with him, if he was in the area. 




chezzy71 -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/15/2009 5:12:28 AM)

i think the first time around shouldn't matter.if you can make each other laugh or if one is petitioning i would hope the correspondance would be very respectful from the submissive side of it.getting to know each other takes time so if you are really interested in someone why the waiting game???In my case,i had no choice but to wait for Mistress but i made the first move in asking her if i could be her submissive.Five years later..we are in infancy stage but it gets better everyday.



MsStarlett -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/15/2009 5:21:34 AM)

Oh heck.  If I see a sweet piece of fresh meat, I jump on it.  Let's face it ladies.  How many of us jumped on Peon's back then lived to regret it?



SthrnCom4t -> RE: Who should make the first move? (1/15/2009 5:27:16 AM)

Mind games take too much energy. If I want something, I'll let the fact be known. Otter knew the first time I met he and his wife for dinner - just in the way I said goodbye to him. I knew he was interested because I had that, "Thank you" email before I went to bed that night. Easy!

Once you realize that other people's actions and reactions are not necessarily attached to you, you give up the 'fear of rejection' and just 'be'. Much less stressful :)

If I don't get that email or call afterward, something was just 'not meant to be'..........NEXT! Who has life force energy to waste on an unwilling victim? <weg>



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